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Real info on train subjects with real facts, why is this so hard for community to do Locked

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  • Member since
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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, October 13, 2020 8:29 PM

gmpullman
I've seen with huge expanses of polystyrene makes me wonder where all that stuff is going to go when the layout gets dismantled?

The recycle depot, with all the mailorder we get now I have two big drum bags of the stuff to take back every month.

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 7:53 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
rrebell

No, there are always give and takes in the building codes and people who interpit them in a way they were not intended. I took a torch to bare foam and threw lighted matches on it, hot irons, electrical shorts and everything else I could think of, it mostly melted. Would I leave it exposed on a wall, no, but we are talking layouts here. There are a lot less fires now since smoking is prohibited in multi family dewlings and smoking in general is way down. Fireplaces are not alowed most places now too where I live.

 

 

As a building designer and construction professional dealing with older properties, agreed, except for that last line......

I'm personally not a fireplace guy, but I'm not sure I want to live in a nanny state where they are outlawed......

Sheldon

 

You think that is bad, there are countys here trying to do away with natural gas, welcome to California, home of Prop 65!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:05 AM

The main issue with fireplaces (and wood stoves) is particulate pollution.  The city of London, UK, has joined the madness and adopted wood stoves for environmental reasons.  The supreme double irony here (perhaps triple) is that the same Londoners elect politicians who place automatic fines (they call them congestion charges)   on publicly paid for roads (roads paid for in part by all taxpayers not just London residents) ostensibly to reduce air pollution, principally particulates. 

The triple irony: European governments including London City encouraged use of diesel powered passenger cars to reduce CO2 "pollution", brought in clean air rules to clean up City air and now encourage wood burning for the same "reason".

London used to be referred to as "the big smoke" and I remember the tail end of those days. The buildings all over London show the black staining from coal burning, much of it from steam locomotives. Not until North Sea gas could replace coal gas  derived from steel making could London succeed in cleaning up its air. 

How much longer before environmentally  driven wood burning returns London to those days?

Alyth Yard

Canada

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:50 AM

Lastspikemike
How much longer before environmentally  driven wood burning returns London to those days?

Smog from high-efficiency wood stoves, stoves arguably of finer quality than most that would be adopted in London, has been a problem in Colorado communities for decades now.  This despite catalytics in the the exhaust that supposedly take down leftover hydrocarbons that are the reason nitrogen oxides are so stringently demonized...

In a quadruple irony, probably the greatest of them all, the issue with diesel and GDI is far less with typical 'particulates' (which are largely a nuisance) than with nanoparticulates, smaller than about 35nm.  These go right through most 'diesel particulate filters' and have a range of disturbing effects on biological tissue and systems, somewhat akin to blue asbestosis.  Note that the nanoparticulates remain easily suspended and constitute an ongoing risk to everyone, inside and outside, masked or unmasked, that breathes.  

In my opinion the 'correct' way to get rid of these is to crank up both the pressure and temperature of the diesel engine (which incidentally gives far better thermal efficiency) and then use additional urea in SCR to knock down the resulting higher NOx.  This also has the effect of reducing HC under almost all conditions to minuscule levels, which leverages the reduction of photochemical effects that lower levels of emitted NO are supposed to accomplish.

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Posted by Lastspikemike on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 2:00 PM

Or just drive a gasoline fuelled car....

And while youre at it, fit a nice clean burning  natural gas fireplace (or better yet, a virtual fireplace and a gas fired central heating system). 

My City depends on as many people as possible engaging in rational behaviour when it comes to utilizing PNG. 

Alyth Yard

Canada

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 2:17 PM

Lastspikemike

Or just drive a gasoline fuelled car....

And while youre at it, fit a nice clean burning  natural gas fireplace (or better yet, a virtual fireplace and a gas fired central heating system). 

My City depends on as many people as possible engaging in rational behaviour when it comes to utilizing PNG. 

 

And take the Ethanol out of the gasoline so the car gets better mileage.......

Which will also save millions in small engine repairs made necessary by the damage Ethonal does to small engine carburetors and fuel systems.

Nobody sees the unintended consequences, and then they are never willing to reverse bad choices.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:41 PM

True, my former comunity touted TODS (trasit orentated development) even though it was proven they did not work in affluent comunitys which they had.

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Posted by York1 on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:53 PM

It sounds like I'd better enjoy my wood-burning fireplace this winter before someone decides it's forbidden.

York1 John       

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:26 AM

In keeping with the title of this thread, I'll pretend to be an expert.

I believe the codes surrounding woodburning fireplaces is that most municipalities no longer allow them for new construction.  And if a previous homeowner made the unfortunate decision to convert it to gas logs, you're not allowed to convert it back.  (I assume out of concern that the "contractor" re-conversion might not totally eliminate the gas line as opposed to any environmental agenda? Kaboom!)

- Douglas

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, October 15, 2020 11:35 AM

 And the lack of maintenance done on woodburning fireplaces and especially the chimneys. So many people will just go on and stick a few logs ina nd light them up without having an inspection or anything. My old house, I had the chimney inspected before attempting to use the fireplace. 3 dead squirrels and some major voids in the lining that could have easily set the structure alight had a fire been lit later, it became a decorative fireplace only.
 I don't think this house is in much better condition, so the fireplace is not used. I want to put in a gas insert - those get their own flue pipe that runs up inside the chimney, plus the gas line is right there since the furnace and water heater are right below the fireplace. No desire to bring wood and the critters associated with it in the house - plus there is a fire pit outside I can burn the wood from downed tree limbs and cutoffs. 

 EThanol plants might make great businesses to have on a modern era model railroad, but that stuff is garbage in the real world. Especially on small engines with diaphragm fuel pumps and little rubber fel lines, like blowers and trimmers. Add oxidizer to the fuel - great, on some old motors it will reduce pollution, but any modern car that has any sort of feedback air/fuel system - with oxygen sensors in the exhaust - it just makes them burn more fuel to maintain the correct ratio. Gas companies didn't complain much, the additives are cheaper than gas, and it makes the consumer use more of their product. Luckily the Wawa near me has ethanol free gas available, my truck gets significantly better mileage using it, and has more power. Unfortunately, the octane rating is too low for my car. I also use this for my small engines.

                           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, October 15, 2020 12:36 PM

My woodburning fireplace has a double steel chimney pipe with cover and screen at the top.  I do clean it every year.  I built the fireplace and chase myself 20 years ago, and I got it inspected by the city engineer before I had my first fire.  I clean it every year before use.

York1 John       

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Posted by Pruitt on Thursday, October 15, 2020 2:46 PM

York1
My woodburning fireplace has a double steel chimney pipe with cover and screen at the top.  I do clean it every year.  I built the fireplace and chase myself 20 years ago, and I got it inspected by the city engineer before I had my first fire.  I clean it every year before use.

You're the first person I've ever heard of who does that. Thumbs Up

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, October 15, 2020 3:21 PM

York1
I got it inspected by the city engineer before I had my first fire. 

I have had the City inspector out a few times to guide me through changes/upgrades I wanted to make. There is no charge and they tell me what I can change without having to do expensive upgrades elsewhere.

I had the power to the house upgraded to 200 amps from 100 amps and have done a lot of additional wiring myself. Even though it was not required the inspector was happy to pop by for a look. The fact they don't charge means more people are likely to have them come and have a look making for a safer City.Yes

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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