my planned layout will be C shaped, basically 24" wide and generally 48" from the ceiling. I would like to use LED Pot lights but l need to know how far apart they should be to reduce or prevent shadows on the layout. Thanks
I think you are meaning what we call "Can Lights" or "Halo Lights" down here. I am planning to follow the manufacturer's advice on the lights I am going to use and space them 48" apart in the 8 foot high ceiling.
Lamps are matched to the ceiling height.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
If you don't want shadows, you need a larger (4') flat LED panel with a diffuser as the element through which the light passes. Actually, you will need at least two in your room size. You want one that closely mimics sunlight temps/spectrum.
I just purchased two such panels at Costco for a total of CDN$140. When I purchased an earlier model for our kitchen at HD five years ago, it was closer to $350.
I looked at the panel-type LED lights, but wasn't impressed by the light output, and especially by the price. While my layout room has always been lit by fluorescents (29 4' doubles and 2 8'doubles), I've recently replaced some of them with LED fixtures...
On the package, it states that the "beam angle" is 120º, which works well where the ceiling is just over 3' above the layout. I spaced the lights about 38" apart, and there are no shadows.
However, where the layout is partially double-decked, the upper level is less than 2' below the ceiling, so the lights will have to be more closely-spaced there.
For the lower level beneath, if I opt for LEDs, they'll be open bulbs, spaced accordingly....lots of light, and at a much lower cost, too.
The fluorescents do provide lots of light, though...
Wayne
LED flat panel 2x2 lights have come down a lot in price in recent years. I installed 16 in my train room and decided on 4k temp after trying 5k in a previous layout room.
These can light the room very brightly but I have a dimmer installed so I can adjust the light to taste.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Yes, the LED panels are WAY better - this is about an 8x20 area, 2x 4 foot LED panels.
Or the entranceway, about 6x16, 2x 2 foot panels:
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I used track lighting and LED bulbs, super cheap and you can get light where you want it. Current layout has a squred spiral made out of the track peices and I have lights going in all directions, get close to happy hour lighting.
If you install LED can lighting every 42-48 inches, there should not be many shadows. The only time shadows concern me is during photography, and a set up of three soft boxes wth diffusers is used for those.
In addition to the can lights, I will have three ceiling fans with quad-lights on the bottom that will be kind of like track lighting.
The apprpriate spacing depends on many factors: e.g., the type of fixture and lamp (flood? spot?), vertical distance to the surface illuminated, the light level desired on thet surface. In fixture catalogs-online and hard copy-there are often charts that consider these factors. Some manufacturers or their dealers/distributors will offer their analysis (free) depending on the design factors I mentioned.
When I did my room lighting (prior to LEDs becoming less expensive), I estimated what I needed based on about a 5' vertical distance and a desired 100 foot candles on the layout (bright-to help faciltate modeling tasks). I had a manufacturer's rep check my research (for free) and concluded with 75W "equivalent" (48W actual) halogen downlight floods spaced 24" on center. They are dimmable, but I rarely dim them much. The halogens are warm and although they are more economical to run than incandescents, if LEDs had been less expensive at the time, I would have preferred them. Results: very good light with no shadows.
I am not suggesting that this would be a solution for you but I am suggesting a process that should yield a more accurate solution and mitigate the guesswork.
Dante
PS. No shadows on the walls, either, as you see above.
riogrande5761LED flat panel 2x2 lights have come down a lot in price in recent years. I installed 16 in my train room and decided on 4k temp after trying 5k in a previous layout room....
I began seeing the flat panel LEDs only a couple of years ago here in southern Ontario. At that time, I wasn't at all impressed with the light output, and, while I don't recall the price, it was well beyond my means.Last year, I bought some of the LED fixtures, as shown in my previous post, for my layout room (I had already installed some elsewhere in the house). The price at a nearby Lowes was $99.98 for a 4-pack, but they were on sale for S49.98, due to a rebate offered by the provincial government. The rebates are currently unavailable, and I don't expect them to return.
Due to the pandemic, the government has reset the prices for electricity, from previous time-of-use rates to a flat rate, similar-to (but not as low) as it had been before the switch to time-of-use. This will eventually revert to time-of-use rates.
While I'm not overly concerned about electricity rates (our house is all-electric, including heat), I had been dropping into Lowes anytime that I passed by, and found that the 4-packs that I had bought for $49.98 last year, were now $149.98-a-pack! I continued to drop-in regularly, in hope of a sale, but no luck at all until last week, when the price had been dropped to $79.98/4-pack. I bought three packs, and will probably go back this week for a few more.
That should be enough to finish updating the lighting over the single-level portion of the layout, and I'll likely put some of the removed fluorescents over the upper level of the partially double-decked area.
I am of the opinion that you can never have too much light, especially over a train layout.
rrebell I used track lighting and LED bulbs, super cheap and you can get light where you want it. Current layout has a squred spiral made out of the track peices and I have lights going in all directions, get close to happy hour lighting.
SeeYou190 If you install LED can lighting every 42-48 inches, there should not be many shadows. The only time shadows concern me is during photography, and a set up of three soft boxes wth diffusers is used for those. In addition to the can lights, I will have three ceiling fans with quad-lights on the bottom that will be kind of like track lighting. -Kevin
doctorwayneLast year, I bought some of the LED fixtures, as shown in my previous post, for my layout room (I had already installed some elsewhere in the house). The price at a nearby Lowes was $99.98 for a 4-pack, but they were on sale for S49.98, due to a rebate offered by the provincial government. The rebates are currently unavailable, and I don't expect them to return.
You are not limited to what is available in local stores. There are some online suppliers which many offer 2x2 LED flat panel lights for around $35 US each. The ones I bought were 4k temp and came in packs of 4. Shipping was free for orders over $200. With a little effort, there are some good economical sources out there and they deliver to your door.
IDRickHow far are your can lights from the wall? I was wondering if there are shadows if using an around the room layout and the operator creating shadows if standing close to the layout? Or do you have separate lighting above the layout? If so, which type?
How far are your can lights from the wall?
One side of the layout is 34 inches wide, the other is 30 inches. The aisle is 42 inches wide. So starting from the top of the diagram, the cans are 34 inches from the wall, then 42 inches apart over the aisle, then 30 inches from the second wall.
I was wondering if there are shadows if using an around the room layout and the operator creating shadows if standing close to the layout?
The operator should not cast a shadow unless he leans over the layout.
Do you have separate lighting above the layout?
There will be LED pucks, see explanation below.
The image below shows the lighting plan for the layout room. There will be 9 cans above the layout, 5 cans above the workbench, and 12 spotlights on the ceiling fans. There will also be smaller LED "puck" lighting above the layout about 12" from the backdrop and 24 inches above the layout surface.
Layout size is 8 1/2 by 22 feet. Staging area is not shown in the lighting diagram. The room size is 11 by 22 feet.
The five cans above the workbench will be in two switches, so I can have 2,3, or 5 lights on at once. All nine layout cans will be on one switch, the ceilning fan lighting on another, and the LED spot-pucks on a third.
Lighting over staging, not shown in the diagram, will be on another switch.
Green: Layout
Brown: Desk
Blue: Aisle
Awesome, thorough explanation Kevin! Thank you so much!
IDRickAwesome, thorough explanation Kevin! Thank you so much!
You are welcome.
I have not built it yet, but I have built a 1:1 mockup to make sure the lighting would be adequate, and what I could tell on my 8 foot long test section is that it would be just fine.
I build 1:1 mockups of everything. Cardboard is cheap compared to the price of unsatisfactory results.