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Building a layout on a rotisserie

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 4:05 AM

It's convenient that you can't ever see the front and back walls at the same time! So you will never know the walls are mismatched one you assemble the building! Therefore if you think you can live with having the walls mismatched, then keep it that way!

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 4:30 AM

Hi Isaac,

I think I'm in agreement. I figured it would take more than a dozen cuts and splices to get everything lined up. It's not worth the effort.

The only thing I might try to correct is the spacing of the windows where the horizontal joint is on the back wall. That will only take a couple of cuts.

Thanks,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 6:11 AM

SPSOT fan

It's convenient that you can't ever see the front and back walls at the same time! So you will never know the walls are mismatched one you assemble the building! 

Actually, that is not the issue. It's not so much that the windows in the rear wall do not match up with the windows in the front wall. It is that the windows in the rear wall are not equally spaced vertically. So, if the rear wall will be visible on the layout, it will be noticeable. The 4th and 5th floor windows are too close together. So, if the rear wall will be visible on the layout, if it were me, I would fix it.

Rich

 

hon30critter

Alton Junction

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 7:07 AM

richhotrain
Actually, that is not the issue. It's not so much that the windows in the rear wall do not match up with the windows in the front wall. It is that the windows in the rear wall are not equally spaced vertically. So, if the rear wall will be visible on the layout, it will be noticeable. The 4th and 5th floor windows are too close together. So, if the rear wall will be visible on the layout, if it were me, I would fix it.

You are right! I will fix it! Dumb mistake in the first place, and it doesn't deserve to make it onto the layout.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 7:09 AM

hon30critter
 
richhotrain
Actually, that is not the issue. It's not so much that the windows in the rear wall do not match up with the windows in the front wall. It is that the windows in the rear wall are not equally spaced vertically. So, if the rear wall will be visible on the layout, it will be noticeable. The 4th and 5th floor windows are too close together. So, if the rear wall will be visible on the layout, if it were me, I would fix it. 

You are right! I will fix it! Dumb mistake in the first place, and it doesn't deserve to make it onto the layout.

Dave 

LOL.  Well, I wouldn't go that far. But tell us this. Is the rear wall going to be visible on your layout?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 7:22 AM

Something I noticed,  is the height of each row of windows on the back wall compared to the height of the front wall windows.  The top of the windows in each row, on the front and the back walls, should match, as they would on a prototype.

The way I see it, the problem floors with window height are: the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, and the 8th is "ify", but would work.  The 2nd, 6th and maybe 7th are the most obvious.  

I'd put the sections together, back to back,  and think about where each floor would be.

Mike.

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Posted by CapnCrunch on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 12:30 PM

Hi Dave,

Thanks for posting the source of your building material.  I am going to be modeling a Firestone tire factory from the 1930s and have been looking for a kit to bash.  The City Classis Daum Blvd will be just the ticket!  The actual plant is three or four stories with a sawtooth skylight roof.  It is very linear so I will need to use pieces sideways.  My plan is to take the vertical panels and cut them into two story strips.  I will also use the back wall panels inside-out because the majority of the plant is stucco instead of brick.  The protrusions to support the window glazing will look like faux lintels that were part of the art deco design (if you use enough imagination Whistling)  The brick facade kinda matches the office portion of the facility so they will work as well.  We'll see if the final product comes anywhere close to my vision...Idea.

Tim

Tim 

          Late to the model railroad party but playing catch-up.....


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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 6:39 PM

richhotrain
tell us this. Is the rear wall going to be visible on your layout?

Hi Rich,

The layout will be visible from all sides so the back wall has to be corrected at least to get the window spacing even. However, since the front and the back walls can't be viewed at the same time, I'm not going to worry about having the windows on exactly the same level. There will be view blocks inside the building so you won't be able to tell that the floors are offset a bit.

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 7:06 PM

mbinsewi
Something I noticed,  is the height of each row of windows on the back wall compared to the height of the front wall windows.  The top of the windows in each row, on the front and the back walls, should match, as they would on a prototype. The way I see it, the problem floors with window height are: the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th, and the 8th is "ify", but would work.  The 2nd, 6th and maybe 7th are the most obvious.   I'd put the sections together, back to back,  and think about where each floor would be. Mike.

Hi Mike,

I did some calculations regarding what cuts and fills would have to be made to get the windows all lined up front to back. I think it required nine cuts. Some material has to be taken away and in the case of the joint that I messed up, some has to be added. As I said in my previous post, you can't see the front and the back of the building at the same time so as long as I correct the screwed up joint in the middle nobody will notice that the floors are offset a bit. The view blocks will prevent that. 

There are almost no windows in the side walls so their positions don't matter. We can assume that they are in stairwells.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 7:17 PM

hon30critter

As I said in my previous post, you can't see the front and the back of the building at the same time so as long as I correct the screwed up joint in the middle nobody will notice that the floors are offset a bit. The view blocks will prevent that. 

Agreed.   Yes

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 7:18 PM

I just made a couple of interesting discoveries. The first is that the back walls in all three of my City Classics kits (Baum Blvd., East Ohio St., and Grant St.) are all identical. In addition, none of the back walls line up with the window spacings on any of the front walls. The front wall window spacings are slightly different between the kits but that is not an issue.

Having all the back walls identical doesn't appeal to me at all. Baum Blvd and Grant St were supposed to go side by side and each final structure would be about 7" wide. That would be a total of 14" of identical walls. Boring!

My solution will be to cut up the back walls and spare side walls of the yet to be assembled kits to make different window and door patterns. I have a full set of extra side walls because I am joining several kits together.

Time to generate some sawdust.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 7, 2020 7:32 PM

CapnCrunch
Thanks for posting the source of your building material.  I am going to be modeling a Firestone tire factory from the 1930s and have been looking for a kit to bash.  The City Classis Daum Blvd will be just the ticket!

Hi Tim,

Are you aware of DPM's modular wall system?

https://www.walthers.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=modular+walls+HO

The City Classics buildings might be a bit cheaper but the DPM system offers a lot of flexibility. Doctorwayne has an impressive structure on his layout that uses the DPM components.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, April 8, 2020 3:36 AM

I got the Baum Blvd back wall corrected. I just have to add a cap to the top of the wall and square up the sides a bit:

Cutting the City Classics walls is a PITA because they are so thick, and getting the cuts square is even harder. I tried using a razor saw but I had a hard time keeping the blade in the cut line. I tried using a jig saw but that was even worse. Finally I just resorted to scoring the line over and over with a #11 blade following the mortar lines.

However, I did try something new to me. I had read that turning the #11 blade upside down and scoring with the tip backwards would remove a lot more material, so I gave it a try. Well, they were right! I was able to cut perfectly straight lines following the brick pattern by making a few light passes with the blade down to create a channel, i.e. with the blade in the normal orientation, and then flipping the blade over to score with the back of the blade. The amount of material that was removed with each pass was far greater than with the blade held upright. It still took multiple passes but the finished cut was true and only required a bit of sanding to square it up.

I learned something new today!Big Smile

Cheers!!

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:10 AM

Dave, that reworked back wall looks outstanding. Once painted and installed, there is no way that a casual viewer can detect any flaws. Yes

Rich

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, April 8, 2020 4:55 AM

richhotrain
Dave, that reworked back wall looks outstanding. Once painted and installed, there is no way that a casual viewer can detect any flaws. 

Rich,

You are too generous!

I still have to figure out how to rearrange the other back walls so that they don't all look alike. I'm going to make a change to the entry doors and freight doors on the current back wall in order to relieve the monotony as well. Now that I have figured out how to cut straight lines in the wall sections it shouldn't too difficult.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, April 8, 2020 5:03 AM

Dave, I'm not so sure that I would spend any time worrying about the identical structure of those two rear walls. Paint each wall a different color as well as the window frames. That's all that it will take. I see no need to spend time and effort to make the changes that you propose.

Rich

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, April 8, 2020 6:45 AM

hon30critter
The amount of material that was removed with each pass was far greater than with the blade held upright. It still took multiple passes but the finished cut was true and only required a bit of sanding to square it up.

That a great idea, kind of like how a plexiglass cutter works, it takes material out with each pass, so it can be "snapped" off.

Your walls are looking great.

Mike.

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, April 9, 2020 1:26 AM

I finished squaring up the walls for the Baum St. building. I had to trim a little bit off of one side of the back wall to get it to match the front wall properly. I also replaced the doors on one side of the back wall with plain brick in order to alter the appearance slightly.

I also received the trolley which I will use as a base for a diner:

It is just a cheap plastic toy but it will suit my purposes nicely.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, April 10, 2020 3:14 AM

I had some fun with 3rdPlanIt tonight. The trolley shell got me all inspired so I decided to do some sketches of what the structure might look like. There will no doubt have to be some modifications made. I guessed at the window sizes but slight variations in the actual window sizing won't make much difference:

I love working with 3rdPlanIt. The whole evening was very relaxing. We haven't been able to sit outside for several days so I'm going a bit stir crazy. Doing the drawings relieved most of that stress.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Friday, April 10, 2020 3:53 AM

Hey I have one of those trolleys! I got it at a second hand store for a dollar before I had even started to properly collect trains! I'm excited to see what you'll do with it!

Also there is definitely a prototype for that kind of thing! In downtown Yakima Washington, by the railroad tracks, there is a strange building that has some old passenger cars built into it. I found a picture of it on google:

You plans reminded me a bit of it! It's very worn down, I don't think it has been used for a long time!

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, April 10, 2020 4:20 AM

SPSOT fan
Also there is definitely a prototype for that kind of thing! In downtown Yakima Washington, by the railroad tracks, there is a strange building that has some old passenger cars built into it. I found a picture of it on google:

Hi SPSOT,

I'm hoping that the owners of my diner can at least afford matching drapes!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaugh The image of the old passenger car immediately brought to mind a colony of old hippies sweating it out in metal cars without air conditioning!Ick!LaughLaughLaugh

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, April 10, 2020 6:01 AM

We have our own railroad car diner here in Chicago. It is located in downtown Chicago at the northeast corner of Congress and Wells. Tutto Italiano.

railroad-car-diner.jpg

On the right side of the photo is LaSalle Street Station crossing over Congress Boulevard. LaSalle Street Station was the terminus for Rock Island passenger trains as well as the New York Central. 

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, April 10, 2020 6:29 AM

richhotrain
We have our own railroad car diner here in Chicago. It is located in downtown Chicago at the northeast corner of Congress and Wells. Tutto Italiano.

Hi Rich,

That's neat to see a real dining car 'diner' still in existence. It must take some effort to keep it in good shape. I can imagine that maintaining the roof is a challenge.

Thanks,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, April 10, 2020 6:39 AM

Tutto Italiano Ristorante has been there since 1993, but either that railway car or its predecessor has been in that location forever, or so it seems.

It is within a short walking distance of LaSalle Street Station and my much beloved Dearborn Station. The location is also quite close to the old Grand Central Station which should have been preserved as a national landmark, but Mayor Daley had it torn down in 1971 or thereabouts and the site sat empty for a generation after that. We do stuff like that in Chicago.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Friday, April 10, 2020 8:02 AM

hon30critter
 I'm hoping that the owners of my diner can at least afford matching drapes!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaugh The image of the old passenger car immediately brought to mind a colony of old hippies sweating it out in metal cars without air conditioning!Ick!LaughLaughLaugh 

Yeah, that building has not been occupied for as long as I have known it!

I also just remembered that at one point there was a pizza place in a caboose about a block south of there! I ate there once, but I have no idea if it is still there!

Regards, Isaac

I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, April 10, 2020 8:55 AM

There is a Mexican restaurant in Waukesha, WI., that uses a string of passenger cars for dining areas, the La Estacion, so it's really a diner, like yours.

The diner in Rich's post is painted for the MILW., the way it appears.

Some Google views:

The station was built by the C&NW a long time ago.

I like your diner idea Dave! 

Mike.

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, April 10, 2020 9:18 AM

 There's one along route 78 in New Jersey that uses an on CNJ passenger car.  Their web site even has a dedicated page for it:

https://www.clintonstationdiner.com/train-car

At the Red Caboose Motel in near Strasburg, they have a diner in a dining car, which even has sounds and a gentle sway to make it seem lik you really are riding down the tracks. And after dinner you can book a room and sleep in a real caboose, almost all of them are ex-Reading cabooses, just painted for a lot of different railroads.

 Actually there are more around me than I thought - there's a pretty fancy place that has what they claim is a genuine Reading dining car from the 1890's. and there is another place I was at once, where they have two passenger cars side by side, I don;t recall the origin of them, but it's a Subway. As in the sandwich shop. There's an entranceway along the side of one of the cars, between them there is a bit of structure built to connect them, and the facing walls of the cars have been removed at that spot. This is where the counter is, and then the seats are arranged down the rest of each car.

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, April 12, 2020 2:03 AM

I am getting a better mental picture of what the downtown scene will look like. It is going to be fairly dominant. Some of the office buildings will be up to 15" in height (nine storys). They will be a bit of a view block when I am sitting, but I think that is a good thing. I don't think that they will overpower the layout, and if they do that's what saws are for. I am reminded of layouts like Rod Stewart's where the buildings are quite tall.

I also have the luxury of being able to make the main street wide enough for two 10' lanes, parking on both sides (seven ft. ea.) and 12' sidewalks on both sides. The road widths are not quite prototypical but at least the scene shouldn't look too crowded. Some of the back alleys will be narrow, but still wide enough for two cars to pass. There will be a major cross road in the middle of town, but I have offset the intersecting streets so that you won't be able to see all the way across the layout. Instead, you will be looking at tall buildings across the main street from where the intersecting roads meet it.

I picked up four different colours of rattle can primer today (curbside pickup) so I can start painting the Baum St building's walls before assembly. I'm going to use somewhat more subdued colour schemes than what City Classics show in their ads.

I also got a shipment of signal parts from Tomar, but I made a dumb mistake when ordering them. The order came to just over $130.00. That meant that I had to pay duty (13% + $10.00 handling) which added $ 27.48 to the order. If I had placed two separate orders of less than $100.00 I could have avoided the duty and still have been ahead money despite paying two shipping fees.Bang HeadDunce Oh well!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by carl425 on Sunday, April 12, 2020 9:23 AM

hon30critter
There will be a major cross road in the middle of town

I would instead follow the "rule of thirds" from art composition.  You'll find it produces a more visually pleasing scene.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, April 12, 2020 9:55 AM

carl425
I would instead follow the "rule of thirds" from art composition.  You'll find it produces a more visually pleasing scene.

Hi Carl,

I'm not very well educated when it comes to art composition, but I based my decisions on what I thought would make the scenes 'more pleasing'.

If I was to model a straight 90 degree intersection then the viewer, looking north/south would be able so see straight through the middle of town and out the other side. I think that would reduce the impression of depth in the city. I chose to offset the crossroads so that the viewer would see buildings when they looked down the crossroads instead of open space. There will be a bit of the opposite crossroad visible on the other side of the main street.

Here is the layout plan:

The layout will only be five feet+ wide. It will obviously be really easy to see from one side to the other. By offsetting the crossroads I'm hoping to make the scene look more dense.

I did some research on the rule of thirds but I don't quite understand how to apply it in my case. Can you elaborate?

Thanks,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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