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Building a layout on a rotisserie

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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:57 PM

Just to get Ulrich going againSmile, Wink & Grin, I just changed the center support in the table to 2x8 sides and 2x6s for the top and bottom. You know that they are never going to drop just one nuclear bomb, right?!?

Seriously, I just discovered that the lumber mill just around the corner has #1 grade pine in all the sizes that I need in stock, and their prices are quite reasonable. I was a bit surprised that they still carried decent lumber. They became a Rona (Canadian version of Home Depot) associate a couple of years ago so I had wrongly assumed that they would be only carrying the usual big box crap. I dealt with them years ago when I built our deck and their service was excellent. I hope it is still as good.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 4:48 PM

Dianne and I just finished doing an inventory of the garage. She has said we needed to have a garage sale for a long time but I didn't think we had enough stuff to justify the effort. I was wrong!

We are going to get rid of a lot of stuff that we have been hanging on to like our old stereo equipment. Up until now I was reluctant to part with it but the reality is that we will never set up the stereo again given how utterly convenient and easy to use our Google Home unit is. It's not stereo but the quality of sound is still good enough to suit us and the variety of music available is apparently limitless.

One thing that I am keeping, despite it frustrating Dianne, is all my old Marx O scale stuff. Parting with it would be like losing an old friend even though it might never see the light of day again, at least not in my hands. I have given up too many treasures in the past like my MGC GT to let this last little bit of nostalgia slip through my fingers.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 4:51 PM

hon30critter
Dianne and I just finished doing an inventory of the garage.

My dumpster is now less than three weeks away. I cannot even begin to guess what all I might find once I begin cleaning out the garage.

I know I have held on to too much stiff.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 5:11 PM

SeeYou190
My dumpster is now less than three weeks away. I cannot even begin to guess what all I might find once I begin cleaning out the garage.

We have been in the house for 32 years. We have had dumpsters delivered three times over the years. Each time we filled them to overflowing but the garage never even got close to being empty. Between the dumpsters we have taken numerous loads of crap to the dump. I swear that there is some sort of conspiracy going on! Something is reproducing in our garage besides the mice and the spiders!!!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaughMischief

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, March 17, 2020 5:28 PM

hon30critter
We have been in the house for 32 years. We have had dumpsters delivered three times over the years.

I have only been in my house 20 years, and this is my second dumpster. It sounds like we are on similar schedules.

I do believe the stuff can breed and multiply.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by E-L man tom on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 1:28 PM

RR_Mel
just scoot around run my wires, none of the wire hangers are even close to full after more than 20 years and hundreds of wires. They are mounted 4” below the layout surface and 12” in from the edge, easy to get to and fast too.

Great idea for hanging wires, Mel. I'm not to the wiring stage just yet (beginning to lay roadbed righ now), but I have L-girder benchwork and I drilled 2 11/2" diameter holes through each joist, which will make it esy to snake wiring through, plus, it will also serve as hangers, for the most part, for the wires. I do believe that there will be a need for some hangers between the joists though.

As for the span between the supports on the rotisserie layout, I think simple L-girders, using 1 x 4"s for the web and 1 x 2"s for the flange would work. On my layout, I'm using L-girders, using 1 x 3"s and they easily span 8+ feet with no sag. And, yes, the L-girders can be spliced using the "buscuit" splice plates, overlapping the joint by about 8 inches on each side. You can even use strips of 3/8" or 1/2" plywood for the splice plates, securing them with 4 or 5 screws on each side. I do not use glue for these splices, but that would add to the strength.

Tom Modeling the free-lanced Toledo Erie Central switching layout.
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 2:13 PM

E-L man tom
As for the span between the supports on the rotisserie layout, I think simple L-girders, using 1 x 4"s for the web and 1 x 2"s for the flange would work. On my layout, I'm using L-girders, using 1 x 3"s and they easily span 8+ feet with no sag.

Hi Tom,

I appreciate your suggestion, but I have priced the lumber and the difference between my heavy duty construction and using lighter lumber might be $100 tops. That's peanuts! I need 230 ft of mostly 2x6 which is $1.15/ft for #1 pine (dressed four sides, solid knots 1" or less in diameter, fewer than one knot per foot). The total including tax for the boards will be $300.00. I just spent almost that much on a Rapido Park car. If the wood was going to cost me thousands of dollars that would be a different thing.

I'm not the type of person who takes risks. All our money has been in GICs since last July. Guess who's investments haven't taken a blood bath in the last three weeks?Thumbs Up

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 2:26 PM

I got the casters and the swivel plates today. The casters are quite heavy duty which I don't really need, but they have 4" wheels so they will roll over my not quite smooth garage floor easily. The swivel plates were way too flimsy. I ordered 4" plates and I could bend the metal with my fingers. I am sending them back (good old Amazon) and I have ordered 7" units instead. What pleased me with the 7" units was that one of the reviewers had used them in a heavy duty vertical application and they worked fine. 

I found some long throw bolt latches at Home Depot to use for locking the table in place. The total for all the hardware will be about $170.00 incl tax.

I calculate that the entire benchwork assembly including the end supports and foam will cost about $800.00. I'm quite comfortable with that.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 3:14 PM

hon30critter
I calculate that the entire benchwork assembly including the end supports and foam will cost about $800.00. I'm quite comfortable with that

I hope you are better at calculating costs better than I am. I tend to go into overrun on almost all my projects.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, March 18, 2020 8:39 PM

SeeYou190
I hope you are better at calculating costs better than I am. I tend to go into overrun on almost all my projects.

Hi Kevin,

I am terrifically talented at calculating costs! I never said that I get the calculations right, but I can calculate the devil out of them!!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaugh

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Prov Buddy on Thursday, March 19, 2020 5:30 PM

What a great idea!  While I'm not quite to the point that I NEED it, that day is coming, and as long as I'm starting over....And thanks to the other commenters, also useful.  My suggestions: yes, the leg design's simplicity makes getting close difficult.  Either design shown would work, or just double-up the horizontal floor pcs. (1 1/2") and inset the long horizontals a foot or so;for the operating-position lock, a simple barrel bolt surface-mounted on both ends of one long side would be cheap and strong, or if the gap at the ends is small enough, an old-fashioned window latch would work;and be aware most of the lazy-susan type bearings for barstools have an angle built-in to keep the seat tilted a bit!  The lazy susan ones the plates are parallel.  And they'll mostly work fine in a vertical orientation, just watch the weight-cheap ones are meant to supprt your punchbowl not 100# or more.  I think you might find one meant to hold the weight of a large planter.  Good luck and be sure to post pictures.

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Posted by Dorassoc1 on Thursday, March 19, 2020 5:52 PM

Dave, I'm joining this party kind of late. Is the layout against a wall?   My concern was the width.  From a sitting position how far into the layout can you really reach for any length of time - even with the layout at 36"H. You know the Murphy's rule - even if the layout is an island it means getting up and rerailing the train at that crossover at the other side of where you are.  Also, in the diagram I see there is a base 1"x.  That means you can't really roll a chair under the table to get closer. Also, having built several layouts in the fifty years I've been in the hobby, including two of the size you're contimplating and an around the wall one and having moved - or tried to move them - you're going to lose scenery when you 'rotisse.'  Wiring from a vertical position is one thing.  Track laying - although primarily at the perimeter of the layout - might require the table being horizontal and a lot of bending.  Then there's ballasting. Have a shop vac handy the first time you rotate the layout.  I'm sorry for putting a damper on the project and since you've been very thorough in all other aspects of the project I'm sure you've contemplated my con erns.  I'm intrigued by the concept and get more so every time I crawl out from under my layout.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, March 19, 2020 7:36 PM

Every time I see this topic title, I feel strangely hungry.  Dinner

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, March 20, 2020 2:06 AM

hon30critter
I never said that I get the calculations right, but I can calculate the devil out of them!!

Me too. I calculate the costs to the point where I am sure they are 100% accurate. Then I start the project. Then I find out my calculations are only 10% accurate!

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, March 20, 2020 12:53 PM

Hi Prov Buddy,

I have changed the design so that the two end supports are now joined by a center 'U' shaped beam made of 1x6s. That solves the problem of not being able to roll under the edge of the layout. (Thanks again to Randy for being the first to point out the flaw in my design).

I just bought four heavy duty barrel bolts to lock the table in place. I had to go really heavy duty just to get a long enough throw to reach from the table to the end supports. I couldn't find any long throw lighter duty bolts. The end supports will have a 3/4" panel across the whole width and height so I will be able to drill holes to hold the table at multiple angles. One of the advantages of the heavy duty barrel bolts is that they come with surface mount receiver plates which I will use in the normal upright position to prevent the holes from getting sloppy over time.

The swivel plates are supposed to arrive today. They are 7" square and they are flat. One of the reviewers used them in a vertical position for a fairly heavy game wheel and they worked fine.

I'll post picture when I start working on the assembly, but I'm not sure when that will be. We need to have a yard sale which obviously isn't going to happen for a while, and I need to return several year's accumulation of empty beer bottles. Unfortunately, they just closed the bottle return operation last Wednesday. I don't want to buy the lumber until layout space is clear. Otherwise I will be tripping over it constantly.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, March 20, 2020 1:19 PM

Ho Dorassoc1,

No, the layout will not be sitting against a wall. In fact, I will have several feet of clear space all the way around it.

Dorassoc1
Also, in the diagram I see there is a base 1"x.  That means you can't really roll a chair under the table to get closer.

The design has been changed to correct that issue.

Dorassoc1
you're going to lose scenery when you 'rotisse.

I believe that I have solutions for that issue. First, I don't plan on doing any scenery until the layout is fully tested and operational. That means that almost all the work that will require the layout to be tilted will be done. I will put in buses for lighting and signals in when I do the other wiring, and I am going to use a couple of different socket systems for things like the signals, vehicle and structure lights, street lighting, traffic signals etc. All the sockets will be put in place during the wiring phase so there shouldn't be any need to go under the layout to hook up anything when the items are being placed on the layout.

I'm pretty sure that the socket systems will hold those items in place when the layout is flipped on its side, but if not they can simply be unplugged while the work is being done. Likewise with the buildings. I'm going to use neodymium magnets to hold the smaller structures in place and the relatively few larger buildings can just be lifted off, as will be any loose bits like unlit vehicles that aren't glued in place. I'll try to remember to take the trains off too!!OopsBang HeadSmile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Track and roadbed laying may have to be done with the layout horizontal, as will ballasting and the application of loose scenery materials obviously. I have done some tests and with the layout horizontal at 36 1/2" high I can reach in more than 24" quite comfortably. Almost all of the track is within that distance from the fascia. I will have to stand to do some of the scenery down the middle of the layout, but I will just have to take my time and do as much as I can during each session.

Dorassoc1
I'm sorry for putting a damper on the project

You are absolutely not putting a damper on the project!! I need to hear what people have to say so that I can solve problems during the design phase. The initial location of the end support connecting beams is a prime example of me making a dumb mistake and I am glad that several people have pointed it out.

Thanks for you input!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, March 20, 2020 6:39 PM

I got the new swivel plates today. They are quite substantial and work very smoothly with no wobble.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, March 21, 2020 2:08 AM

Since I won't be able to start construction on the layout until the Covid-19 virus runs its course, I'm going to work on other stuff like structures.  I just ordered Bar Mills O'Doul's Flop House and Blair Lines Greene's Feed & Seed as well as Walthers Heritage Furniture. Heritage Furniture is actually a background kit so you might wonder why I would order one when I won't have any backgrounds to put it up against, but since I already have one of the Heritage Furniture kits I'm going to put the two kits more or less back to back to create a single larger building. There will be some kit bashing involved because the kit has a track running through it and I don't want that on both sides of the building.

https://www.walthers.com/o-douls-flop-house-laser-cut-wood-kit-4-x-6-quot-10-2-x-15-2cm

https://www.walthers.com/greene-s-feed-seed-kit-7-3-16-x-2-13-16-quot-18-3-x-7-1cm

https://www.walthers.com/heritage-furniture-background-building-kit-back-wall-11-3-8-x-4-3-4-x-8-15-16-quot-28-4-x-11-8-x-22-3cm

I have also ordered a number of other items including some turnouts and various rail joiners.

I should explain that I already have all the turnouts needed to do the layout, but some of them don't quite meet my needs. I bought the turnouts and track for my previously planned layout before Code 83 was popular, so they are all Code 100. Specifically, I need a double slip turnout to make the locomotive service area work, and I have a Peco Code 75 unit. The problem is that a few of my critters won't run on Code 75 track because they have pre RP-25 wheel sets. I have the choice of going to a Code 100 double slip or a Code 83. The Code 100 double slip would fit nicely since I am using Code 100 track, but it doesn't have powered frogs so some of my critters will likely stall unless all the stars are aligned perfectly, which we all know never happens.

That leaves me with the Code 83 Peco double slip which is the newer Unifrog design, i.e. I can power the frogs. Unfortunately however the Code 83 geometry doesn't work with Peco Code 100 turnouts that I already have.Bang Head That means that I have to order four Peco Code 83 # 6 turnouts in order to fit the Code 83 double slip into the track plan. Can you smell the $$$$ burning!!!Bang HeadAngryGrumpy

Oh well, ya win some and ya lose some!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, March 22, 2020 8:35 PM

I just finished sorting out all the beer bottles in the garage. I ended up with six cases of empties and (bonus) a half case of full Coronas! How they ended up at the bottom of the pile I don't have clue, but that saves me a trip to the beer store!

The fact that we ended up with six cases of empties is also puzzling. Dianne and I rarely drink beer. On a hot summer day we might have a couple. The only person who comes to the house regularly and who is a beer drinker is our son Cole, and he usually only has a couple. My only conclusion is that we haven't taken the empties back to the beer store for a long, long time!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaugh

The biggest problem is that after a half hour sorting beer bottles my back and my neck are killing me.GrumpyBang HeadBang HeadBang Head The layout will be a slow process.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by carl425 on Sunday, March 22, 2020 11:45 PM

hon30critter
a half case of full Coronas!

Too bad you can't drink those or you'll catch the virus.

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 23, 2020 1:13 AM

carl425
Too bad you can't drink those or you'll catch the virus.

I'm just stubborn enough to take the risk! Seriously, it's too bad that their sales are going down. How illogical is that? If anything, people should be drinking more of it just to defy the virus itself! It is seriously good beer!

Everybody - darn the virus - go out and buy a case of Corona!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by azrail on Monday, March 23, 2020 2:52 AM

Everybody - darn the virus - go out and buy a case of Corona!

If you like a Mexican version of Keystone or Milwaukee Beast

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, March 23, 2020 5:03 AM

azrail
If you like a Mexican version of Keystone or Milwaukee Beast

Hi azrail,

I'm in Canada so I don't have the opportunity to sample most American beers. However, I can honestly state that those beers that I have tried that hail from south of the border have disappointed me greatly! I'm sure that Ulrich will agree that a good beer should have some body and distinctive flavour, and leave more in your gut than great big farts!

There!!! That ought to get the debate roiling!!! Please be polite in your responses!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 23, 2020 7:08 AM

 We have plenty of those down here. They just don't come from breweries big enough to need their own switch engines.

(like how I kept it train related?)

                                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, March 23, 2020 10:00 AM

My wife's favorite is Corona Premier 90 cal.  It's not bad really.

hon30critter

I'm in Canada so I don't have the opportunity to sample most American beers.

They aren't carried in the stores?  Many grocery stores here have a HUGE long aisle with beer including a number of Canadian.  We also have Total Wine which cares a huge variety of beers.

And in northern Virginia, you can't swing a cat without hitting a craft brewery out in this area.

However, I can honestly state that those beers that I have tried that hail from south of the border have disappointed me greatly! I'm sure that Ulrich will agree that a good beer should have some body and distinctive flavour, and leave more in your gut than great big farts!

There!!! That ought to get the debate roiling!!! Please be polite in your responses!

Cheers!!

Dave 

Yeah, everyone thinks their countries beer is wonderful and everyone elses is crap. *shrugs*  Whatever.  At the very least, no one can accuse you of being unpatriotic!  

But I've kinda found after drinking beer from local craft breweries fresh from the tap, that anything bought from the store, no matter where it's from, I'm kinda losing my taste for it in comparison.

There was a local craft place called the Farm Brewery.  They always have around 8 or 10 different ones to try and really all of them are pretty good.  My favorite was an Abby beer called Trappist Monk Night Watchman.  It had a slight berry flavor, was really dark and mmmm.... tasty.  It was 14% alcohol too.  They made a limited batch and I hope they make it again.  I took home a growler of it when they still had it.

A funny story btw.  When I was in college in the dorms at Indiana University, there was a Swiss guy there named Fritz Meierhans.  He had a dorm fridge which was always full of Busch beer.  I was surprised he would like to drink it - as it seemed like crappy American beer.  I told me it was because he could drink it like water and could drink lots of it and not be majorly affected.  Maybe he was like Legolas in Lord of the Rings.  Could have a lot to drink and only feel a slight tingle in his little finger!

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, March 23, 2020 10:23 AM

hon30critter
Since I won't be able to start construction on the layout until the Covid-19 virus runs its course, I'm going to work on other stuff like structures.

That sounds like a good plan. While I have been waiting to start my final layout I have been building freight cars. I find structures too hard to store until they are ready to put on the layout.

riogrande5761
We also have Total Wine which cares a huge variety of beers.

I love beer shopping in Total Wine.

riogrande5761
Yeah, everyone thinks their countries beer is wonderful and everyone elses is <BAD>.

Except for those beers from Belgium! Those guys know how to brew a drink.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by York1 on Monday, March 23, 2020 10:42 AM

My doctor told me I could drink two beers per day.  That's what I do, and I very seldom miss a day.

Like a lot of things, I for some reason buck the trend on beer.  I love American beer, and I don't like most European beer or craft beers.

I will take a Budweiser or Bud Light, Pabst, or just about any other national brand.  I also like Boulevard Beer from Kansas City.

In college, at the time there were the commercials with the taste tests of Coke vs Pepsi, my housemates had a beer taste-off.

We all thought we were beer experts.  One guy got five different beers, lined up five glasses, and we had to taste each one and tell what they were.  You could taste a difference, but no one could tell which brand was which.

At that point, we decided to start drinking the lowest priced stuff.

In all of my years, I still think New Orleans' Dixie Beer was the best.  We would drive into the brewery building and buy kegs of it.  I'm glad to hear they are building a new Dixie brewery in N.O. and will again be brewing.

York1 John       

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Monday, March 23, 2020 12:02 PM

York1
I don't like most European beer

Have you ever had a European beer in Europe? The beer exported to the US is rubbish! I tried Beck´s, Heineken, Carlsberg and the real Budweiser from Pilzen and they all tasted awful in the US.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by York1 on Monday, March 23, 2020 1:33 PM

Tinplate Toddler
Have you ever had a European beer in Europe?

That I haven't done.  We were planning to to go Italy this summer, but that's out.  I believe my daughters are now planning on Europe in 2021 and I would go with them.  I will try beer wherever I go.

York1 John       

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Monday, March 23, 2020 1:49 PM

York1

 

 
Tinplate Toddler
Have you ever had a European beer in Europe?

 

That I haven't done.  We were planning to to go Italy this summer, but that's out.  I believe my daughters are now planning on Europe in 2021 and I would go with them.  I will try beer wherever I go.

 

You´ll love it - unless you try French or Italian beers. Better to drink wine there.

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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