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Building a layout on a rotisserie

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, January 17, 2021 1:44 PM

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, January 17, 2021 1:45 PM

Be advised that you will not want to do this on an inkjet printer unless you have a LARGE cartridge refill kit and know how to use it.  

Likewise, many laser printers share the uncomfortable trait with their copier forebears that the actual size laid down and fused on the paper may not be 100% of the nominal image size -- I had upwards of 4% in my 300dpi LaserWriters depending on the PS printer driver being used, and in copiers worse.  That is more apparent if you're doing cumulative scanning of pasteups -- but in cases where curvature is critical you may find yourself with unexpected places where the components don't quite line up as advertised...

I suspect one ideal approach, if you have a FedEx-Kinko's type place near you, is to put the 3D PlanIt files on a stick and have them printed out on the wide-carriage printer.  That includes the old blueprinter's dodge of laying out a line of known stated width on the "page" with the legend "make this line exactly xxx inches" and having the staff then 'make it so' for pickup...

For me, a thin wash of black works as well as a Sharpie for picking pounced lines out of foam or other 'prickable' materials, and it 'finds' the line a bit quicker if your eyes and joints are getting old or fatigued...

Be aware that the technique has old and honored precedent: Marshall Holloway famously laid out the Mike device this way, complete with draftsmen in socks crawling to make redline changes and additions.  Mike Lehman can tell you more.

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 11:22 AM

rrinker
 I suppsoed it would be much better to just leave the paper printout at 1:1 in place and put the roadbed and track over it. It won't hurt anything, and you can run a knife along the edge of the roadbed after it's down to remove the excess paper that's not under track - however, how are you planning to attach the roadbed? If you glue the paper down, and then glue the roadbed to the paper, the roadbed will only be held in place by the paper. That would be my concern.

Hi Randy,

That's one possibility that I am considering. There are other ways to approach the situation too. One problem with gluing the track plan right to the subroadbed is that I would have to use a non-waterbased glue. Water would make the paper swell up and wrinkle, and if the wrinkles didn't flatten out as the paper dried that could create a lot of headaches.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 11:32 AM

Overmod
Be advised that you will not want to do this on an inkjet printer unless you have a LARGE cartridge refill kit and know how to use it.  

Hi Overmod,

Actually my HP Photosmart 7520 inkjet printer seems to be pretty frugal with the ink so I'm not worried about that aspect.

Overmod
many laser printers share the uncomfortable trait with their copier forebears that the actual size laid down and fused on the paper may not be 100% of the nominal image size

I was aware of that potential problem. Note that I said I 'was' aware of the problem. I forgot to check before printing the plan!DunceGrumpyBang Head

I was able to print the necessary parts of the track plan on 64 sheets of paper by leaving out the non-track areas so it wasn't too bad. That saved me running 42 sheets of blank paper through the printer. The individual pages don't actually have a lot printed on most of them.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 11:34 AM

This thread must be getting at least some attention. It just went over 40,000 views!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by snjroy on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 12:35 PM

I like the idea of a big printout. Never thought of leaving it there though... Did I misunderstand your message? Could the paper become a barrier to whatever you want to apply on the foam, like glue, paint and sculptamold? I would use the printout to draw the lines of the track, something like cutting and marking a dotted line in the middle of each track, and remove the paper after the lines are done. Maybe I'm missing something...

As for the 40,000 lurkers reads, well, I have no problems understanding why. Your concept is innovative and you have a talent for managing conversations.

Simon

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, January 19, 2021 5:20 PM

snjroy
I like the idea of a big printout. Never thought of leaving it there though... Did I misunderstand your message? Could the paper become a barrier to whatever you want to apply on the foam, like glue, paint and sculptamold?

Hi Simon,

You understood correctly. One option that I was considering was gluing the track plan down permantly and then just working overtop of it. However, sober second thought suggests that there are too many risks involved. Having the paper buckle at any time in the building/scenicing process would obviously be a problem. The amount of effort required to glue it down with a waterless cement and then sealing it seems not to be worthwhile, to say nothing of the expense and the fumes. I thought of using vinyl wallpaper cement too, but I think I'm going to just use the original plan with a pounce wheel.

Thanks for your comment on managing the conversations.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 10:17 AM

Just pin it in place and use a pointed marker to punch though the papeer leaving a centerline, had to use that method once on last layout.

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, January 20, 2021 10:15 PM

rrebell
Just pin it in place and use a pointed marker to punch though the papeer leaving a centerline, had to use that method once on last layout.

Hi rrebell,

That sounds like a good method.

Thanks,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 3:32 AM

You may recall that I had a little stumble into the tall dresser in our master bedroom on New Years Eve. That was 3 1/2 weeks ago and I still cannot walk properly and I am still in significant pain in my left shoulder. I am undergoing tests this week.

The bottom line is that apparently I'm not going to be doing much if any physical work on the layout for a while. My shoulder pain won't let me do anything at the workbench either, and even typing is difficult. So, it looks like I am being forced to take some time off. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by NorthBrit on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 4:41 AM

Sounds rather painful, Dave.    Take things easy.  

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, January 28, 2021 2:11 AM

NorthBrit
Sounds rather painful, Dave.    Take things easy.  

Hi David,

I don't usually have a problem with pain but that has changed over the past few days. Lying down used to ease the pain but now that brings on more pain, and unfortunately that encourages the use of more pain killers. In the past 1 1/2 years I have not taken more than a dozen morphine based pain killers. In the past three weeks I have taken about 50!

I really, really don't want to get addicted to the pain meds but they mess with your mind. They make it seem like just popping another pill or two will make you feel great. In fact they do exactly the opposite! Yes, they will lower the physical pain for a couple of hours, but they also make you feel irritable. If Dianne says the slightest thing wrong then I get upset. I don't have any patience, and of course she is understandably tired of having to do all of the housework, and being quaranteened to boot, so she isn't in the best frame of mind either.

Then when the pain killing effects wear off and the pain returns, guess what?!? I have to pop a couple more pills.

Our doctor got the ultrasound images yesterday and immediately set up more blood tests and he may be sending me for an MRI on my right leg depending on what the blood tests show. I should have expected this. My right knee has been much larger than my left knee for several months. The problem is that the severe pain is in my left shoulder, not my right calf. We haven't even begun to address the causes for the pain in my shoulder!

The bottom line is that I am sick of being hobbled and sore but apparently I had better get used to it!Grumpy

Cheers!! (I insist on ending this miseable complaint on a positive note!!!)

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by NorthBrit on Thursday, January 28, 2021 4:44 AM

Hi Dave.   I know the sort of thing you are going thru.   I have it 'the other way' with Dawn being disabled.   Sometimes words are said and immediately  they are regretted.   It's those closest who we hurt the most.

When things get tough, the power of a 'hug' really helps.    Dianne would appreciate one from you  then.

 

Our thoughts for a speedy recovery.

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, January 28, 2021 5:23 AM

NorthBrit
When things get tough, the power of a 'hug' really helps. 

Good advice. Thanks for the reminder!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Thursday, January 28, 2021 6:36 AM

I missed hearing about your fall New Year's.  Man that sounds painful.  About a half year ago I tripped over my shoes in the middle of the night and fell against my back into the corner of the hope chest and cracked my ribs.  Those take a long time to heal.

Try to fit lots of cabbage, salary and cucumbers into your diet.  I know it sounds kind of silly but those vegetables really help fight inflammation.

Your fall sounds terrible to my ears Dave.  I hope you can start feeling some relief soon.  Take care of yourself as you are well liked here and we want you better.  Your in our thoughts and prayers

 

 

 

John

 

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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, January 28, 2021 9:20 AM

Dave, I'm sorry to hear that. Did your doctor talk to you about neurostimulation? It's an option when taking meds becomes a problem.

Simon

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, January 28, 2021 12:46 PM

Wow, surprised doc hasn't addressed the shoulder probem yet being on the left side, much more worrisome than right. My wife has a problem on left elbow but x-rays showed water on the elbow proubly caused by arthritus. Hopfully you feel beter soon and the electronic device may work but everyone is different. Also you should know that the beneficial effect of pain meds can deminish over time even with no change in condition.  Hope this is vague enough to pass muster here.

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, January 29, 2021 1:18 PM

snjroy
Did your doctor talk to you about neurostimulation? It's an option when taking meds becomes a problem.

Hi Simon,

I have tried just about every type of treatment to ease my back pain, including neuro stimulation, and they all failed miserably. In fact, most treatements made things far worse. I fall into a small group of people where all the doctors can do is raise their hands and say "sorry, there's nothing we can do about the pain....", that is except for narcotic pain meds.

To make things worse, my doctor told me on Thursday morning that my right Achillies tendon is ruptured and will require surgery to reattach it to my heel.GrumpyBang Head He aslo told me that my right knee is a mess so it will likely require surgury too.GrumpyGrumpyBang Head That means that I am likely hobbled for the next several months.

Oh well. I will survive. The worst part of the whole affair is that everything gets dropped in Dianne's lap. I can't even drive the car to take her bird watching.Sigh

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, January 29, 2021 1:22 PM

rrebell
you should know that the beneficial effect of pain meds can deminish over time even with no change in condition.

Hi rrebell

I am extremely leery of taking narcotic pain meds. I only take them when things get really bad. I don't take them as a preventative measure.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, February 15, 2021 2:04 AM

Hi guys,

For better or for worse I am back. The mental fog that the Hydromorphone induced is mostly gone. I am able to survive on Tylenol these days. Still no word on when I will have the MRI on my Achilles tendon. I'd like them to have a look at my knees at the same time. I already know that my right knee is messed up, but they both hurt when I try to stand up.

I need to get my butt in gear as far as modeling goes. I have to stop using all my aches and pains as an excuse to procrastinate. I'm going to try to clear off my workbench tomorrow.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, February 15, 2021 3:58 AM

hon30critter

 

I need to get my butt in gear as far as modeling goes. I have to stop using all my aches and pains as an excuse to procrastinate. I'm going to try to clear off my workbench tomorrow.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

 

Dave.  Once you start  modeling again  you will feel better in yourself.   Just enjoy what you do.

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by snjroy on Monday, February 15, 2021 7:44 AM

I'm sorry to hear that Dave. I'm guessing that accessing the health system is a challenge these days. Maybe someone can assemble one or two loops of track for you on your table. Then you could do some really easy stuff on rolling stock, like weathering and changing couplers. Hey, you could also just watch some trains go by and sip some tea!  

Simon

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, February 15, 2021 7:51 AM

snjroy

 Hey, you could also just watch some trains go by and sip some tea!  

Simon

 

 

Tea! Tea!  A man after my own heart.    Afterwards save the tea,  let it dry and 'instant earth'  when doing scenery.

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, February 15, 2021 8:28 PM

NorthBrit
Afterwards save the tea,  let it dry and 'instant earth'  when doing scenery.

My layout is in my garage so I'm going to try to avoid any scenery materials that might be considered dinner by the local residents. We have mice issues every few years.

If I get my workbench cleared off I have enough space to set up a 12' test track on the bench and the desk next to it.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 12:33 AM

Well, I tried to do some modeling tonight but my left shoulder said no thanks to that. All I did was install the pilot from Ed's kind donation to my RDC and reassemble the thing and my shoulder was complaining loudly! So, I guess I get to wait until my shoulder has fully recovered before doing any more work.Grumpy

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 12:45 AM

Hi Dave

I'm hoping the best for you that your mobile health can improve soon.  When it does and I'm hopeful as I'm darn sure you are, you can resume doing the things that you love to do again

I've been meaning to post to your thread for a while as I always enjoy your posts.

 

I remember not too far back in your thread it was the topic of the layout technique to be used for your layout.  I know you have the coordinate points from that computer program of yours.  I just thought I'd throw this out to you.  I did a full size layout on poster board taped together and the points from your computer program could help you do this.

The 4 by 8 poster board taped together was quite floppy and cumbersome but I sat on the couch cutting it out with a scissors.  After that the edges could be traced on the foam perfectly for exact placement where the cork goes.

 

 

 

 

SmileTF

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, February 16, 2021 2:01 AM

Track fiddler
I did a full size layout on poster board taped together and the points from your computer program could help you do this.

Hi TF!

Thanks for your suggestion!

Actually I already have a full sized print out of the track plan. Making it was easy with 3rd PlanIt. The only thing I forgot to check was to verify that the prints were the proper size. Some copiers don't print at the actual size. Their output may be smaller then the actual plan by several percentage points, so before I use the full sized printouts I have to do some checking.

I bought a pounce wheel to transfer the plan from the paper to the subroadbed but I think the teeth are too fine to do the job. I'm going to check the sewing web sites to see what they have in a larger space between the spokes.

Thanks for your interest TF!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:24 PM

hon30critter
The only thing I forgot to check was to verify that the prints were the proper size.

I finally got around to checking the print size accuracy and I am very pleased to note that my printer prints at almost exactly 1:1. There is a 0.015" difference every 8" which equals 0.27" over 12'. That means that I can use the full size printouts to lay the cork and track. I can't see 1/4" making any significant difference over the 12' length of the layout.

I bought a larger pounce wheel to transfer the pattern.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, February 22, 2021 4:54 AM

You may have read my comments on David's (North Brit) thread about my concerns about the urban/industrial areas of my layout not having enough density. In other words, I think I have too much open space between the industry structures. David's very closely situated scenes inspired me to take another look with the result that I have reduced the size of the paved areas between the major industries. That allowed me to add another larger industry to the scene.

I did the same thing with the downtown area by eliminating some of the alleyways between the buildings and moving the roads a bit closer to the track. The result is that I can add five or six more larger buildings to the downtown scene. That will make the streets look much more populated and add to the perception that the streets are actually longer than they are.

I have also been able to reintroduce a small neighbourhood of typical railway employee housing. The houses will be small and I will have to scratch build them, but I'm happy with the addition to the plan.

I also have made space for three or four small shops/factories close to the locomotive service area. Hopefully those will add some density to the scenes.

I am really disappointed that my current physical limitations are preventing me from doing more work on the layout, but the changes to the plan that I have been making will improve the layout's appearance significantly! It's also going to cost me because I will have to buy more building kits and scratchbuilding supplies. Darn!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, February 22, 2021 5:06 AM

Hi Dave.  Glad to have helped.  You see how making things narrower than real more can be added.  A busy built up area is made.   Well done.

Regarding your physical limitations.   Just take your time.  There is no race; just a winner - you!

 

David

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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