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Building a layout on a rotisserie

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:41 AM

I got the PL300 foam adhesive today so now I can finish attaching the foam slabs to each other and to the fascia. Unfortunately the weather has turned cold so it will likely take a couple of days for the PL300 to cure. I do have a small electric heater which I can put into the garage, but I'm concerned that it will be overwhelmed and I would rather that it didn't catch fire for obvious reasons! I'm going to check Amazon for bigger heaters.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 9:42 AM

hon30critter
Unfortunately the weather has turned cold so it will likely take a couple of days for the PL300 to cure.

When I went to the post office last night, it was 66 degrees outside. I turned the heater on in the car.

I feel for you.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, November 18, 2020 10:56 AM

As a fellow Canadian, I've always wondered about your plans for working through the Winter months... It can get damn cold here, at least in our neck of the woods (Ottawa). Is your garage insulated?

Simon

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, November 19, 2020 6:56 AM

snjroy
I've always wondered about your plans for working through the Winter months... It can get damn cold here, at least in our neck of the woods (Ottawa). Is your garage insulated?

Hi Simon,

The garage is insulated and drywalled including the ceiling. The doors are insulated too and fit quite snugly. It shares one wall and the ceiling with the house. It never goes below freezing regardless of the outside temperature. I can work in it in the wintertime with just a jacket or a vest, but I think I'll have to find a way to heat it on an 'as needed' basis so things like the PL300 and DAP can dry. I have a 1500 watt heater but it looks way too small to do the job, and I am reluctant to leave it on unattended. I looked at larger garage heaters but they require 220 volts and I don't want to spend the money to run a circuit. I haven't looked at propane heaters yet, but I don't like the idea of using a propane heater with my radial arm saw in the same room.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, November 19, 2020 7:31 AM

SeeYou190
 

When I went to the post office last night, it was 66 degrees outside. I turned the heater on in the car. 

ahh, you Floridians!

I recall my first post-retirement winter in Fort Myers, FL. The golf course was empty if the temperature was below 70.

Up here in the Chicago area, the golf course is filled if the temperature is above 55. My foursome's rule of thumb? If the temperature is at least 45 and sunny with little wind, we tee off without hesitation.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, November 19, 2020 2:07 PM

Dave, although the temperature will be acceptable for work, I would design the thing to resist the temperature swings you will get. How hot does it get in the summer?... In this weather, I would definitely leave some gaps in the track if I were you. The foam will be stable, that's a real plus with your design.

About golfing, I live in a city that has 5 courses, and I've often seen golfers out there in snowy conditions... How's that for dedication to the sport.

Simon

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:57 PM

snjroy
Dave, although the temperature will be acceptable for work, I would design the thing to resist the temperature swings you will get. How hot does it get in the summer?... In this weather, I would definitely leave some gaps in the track if I were you. The foam will be stable, that's a real plus with your design.

I will definitely have expansion gaps in the rails.

The temperature in the summer doesn't go really high as long as the doors stay closed. In fact it is usually rather refreshing to step into the garage on a hot day. Even with the front and back doors open we get a nice breeze through the garage most days.

As far as golf goes, my father in law Bill used to pride himself on being one of the first players on the course in the spring. Usually there was still snow on the ground here and there. I have a 12 handicap personally. When I lose 12 balls into the woods, I quit!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 20, 2020 2:11 AM

hon30critter
I have a 1500 watt heater but it looks way too small to do the job, and I am reluctant to leave it on unattended.

Well, my lack of faith in the tiny 1500 watt heater seems to be unwarranted. I left it on for about three hours and when I went back out to the garage the temperature was quite comfortable and I couldn't detect any hot spots on the fan housing. In fact, the fan housing wasn't even warm. I won't leave it running at night, and I will install a smoke alarm in the garage, but for now it seems the little fan will do the job just fine.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 20, 2020 2:16 AM

The PL300 foam adhesive was delivered yesterday so I applied it to the open joints today. Hopefully it will set up fairly quickly with the small heater keeping the garage at a reasonable temperature.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, November 20, 2020 2:27 AM

hon30critter

 

 
hon30critter
I have a 1500 watt heater but it looks way too small to do the job, and I am reluctant to leave it on unattended.

 

Well, my lack of faith in the tiny 1500 watt heater seems to be unwarranted. I left it on for about three hours and when I went back out to the garage the temperature was quite comfortable and I couldn't detect any hot spots on the fan housing. In fact, the fan housing wasn't even warm. I won't leave it running at night, and I will install a smoke alarm in the garage, but for now it seems the little fan will do the job just fine.

Cheers!!

Dave

 

Yikes!

Dave, ...Please do me a favor and yourself one too!

Install a gas line out to your garage and have a regulated overhead gas heater in check just like the one in your house. 

You won't have to watch it or worry about it anymore.  You can have the low temperature set to 40 degrees when you ain't out there.

I would feel much better about that down here in Minnesota thinking about you up there in Canada knowing you are safe at night and in the day as well if you would pleaseSmile

 

You know this will be way more cost effective in the long runYes   

AND SAFE!!!   That one time you forget 

 

 

Track Fiddler

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 20, 2020 2:55 AM

Track fiddler
Dave, ...Please do me a favor and yourself one too! Install a gas line out to your garage and have a regulated overhead gas heater in check just like the one in your house please. 

Hi TF,

Thanks for your concern, but I don't think that installing a gas heater in the garage would be worth the expense. I understand your feelings about using a small electric heater, but as I said, I don't plan on leaving it running overnight, or even for more than two or three hours during the day when I am around.

There are a couple of issues with a gas heater that would complicate the installation. One is that I only have 7 ft. ceilings. That pretty much precludes mounting a gas heater on the ceiling because I would be constantly banging my head on it. The other issue, as I mentioned before, is that I have my radial arm saw in the garage. My grandfather suffered a sawdust explosion in his garage and I don't want to repeat his mistake.

The bottom line is that I will only need to warm the garage on rare occassions when something needs to set or dry. Otherwise, the garage won't get cold enough to impair my modelling.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Track fiddler on Friday, November 20, 2020 3:12 AM

Hi Dave

A radial arm saw!  Yowza!  Overhead bite and grab saw they should have called it.  They quit making those things for a reason.  

You are one of the most intelligent people I've known here Dave.  Your rotisserie layoutYes

 

Just saying though

 

 

 

TF

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, November 20, 2020 3:53 AM

Track fiddler
And a radial arm saw!  Yowza!  They quit making those things for a reason.  

Hi TF,

I fully understand the dangers involved with using a radial arm saw. I used to work for Sears Canada in the Hardware dept. and I have been involved in the sale of quite a few of the beasts. That exposed me to the horror stories of how nasty a RAS could be if you messed up with it! I recall one incident where a furious customer came into the store with his jaw wired shut. Despite the loss of speech he had absolutely no trouble communicating how terribly unhappy (to put it mildly) he was with Sears having sold him a radial arm saw. What he had tried to do was rip a 2x8 in half (why he didn't just buy 2x4s I didn't ask). Unfortunately he fed the plank into the saw the wrong way. That resulted in the blade grabbing the board and firing it furiously out of the saw whereupon it proceded to bounce off a concrete wall and come straight back at the gentleman, striking him very hard in the jaw. Retail teaches you to keep a straight face when you are dealing with idiots!LaughLaugh

The bottom line is that I exercise extreme caution when I am using the saw, especially if I am ripping something. I have had good use of my RAS. I have built furniture, bathroom cabinets and much more with it and I still have all my fingers. Recently it has served me well when building the benchwork for my new layout. I have thought about replacing it with a compound miter saw, but a new saw on a stand will take up just as much room in the garage, and I will lose the use of the RAS table which is a very convenient workbench, and a compound miter saw won't do nearly as many things as a RAS will!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, November 20, 2020 6:44 AM

Track fiddler
A radial arm saw!  Yowza!  Overhead bite and grab saw they should have called it.

My mother bought me a Sears Craftsman 10" Radial Arm Saw for high school graduation back in '74. Still have it, still runs great, still no blood stains on it Wink

I recall the machinery we used in high school shop class back then! OSHA would have a fit! (not to mention the chemicalsDead) .

Of course my compound-sliding miter saw gets 90% of the crosscut work now but I still turn to the Radial Arm every now and then.

Cheers, Ed

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Posted by NorthBrit on Friday, November 20, 2020 6:51 AM

All this talk of temperatures.

At the moment (1300hours) outside the temperature is at a dizzy height of 32f (0c).

David

 

To the world you are someone.    To someone you are the world

I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 20, 2020 7:53 AM

gmpullman
 
Track fiddler
A radial arm saw!  Yowza!  Overhead bite and grab saw they should have called it. 

My mother bought me a Sears Craftsman 10" Radial Arm Saw for high school graduation back in '74. Still have it, still runs great, still no blood stains on it Wink

I recall the machinery we used in high school shop class back then! OSHA would have a fit! (not to mention the chemicalsDead) .

Of course my compound-sliding miter saw gets 90% of the crosscut work now but I still turn to the Radial Arm every now and then.

Cheers, Ed 

All power saws scare me. I operate any power saw with the most extreme caution and care that I can muster.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, November 20, 2020 8:40 AM

 There's a reason I don;t have a table saw, and that's because most anything I would want to use it for requires manipulating sheet goods which are far to heavy for me to manage by myself, and doing such things is exactly what makes a tool dangerous.

 Even older radial arm saws have directional arrows on them - they're there for a reason, as Mr Jaw Wired Shut found out too late.

 If you want safe efficient heating - to heat my old basement, I had one of those oil filled radiator electric heaters. They take a while to bring things up to temperature since there is no circulating fan, but once warmed up, you can leave them on and they don't run continuously. There is tons of residual heat in the oil and they stay nice and warm even after the thermostat kicks off the heating element. And they never get very hot, either - not likely to ignite stuff, even paper or cloth that might fall on it somehow. Had one in our old office in the basement workshop, too. That wasn't a very large space - it easily overwhelmed it and could make it far too warm if some joker turned it up. Same 1500 watt rating as the typical coil of nichrome wire space heater, but because they can frequently shut off the heating element and continue to warm the room, they use much less power. Mine had wheels, too, so easy to move around out of the way.

                                  --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, November 21, 2020 1:50 PM

rrinker
I had one of those oil filled radiator electric heaters. They take a while to bring things up to temperature since there is no circulating fan, but once warmed up, you can leave them on and they don't run continuously. There is tons of residual heat in the oil and they stay nice and warm even after the thermostat kicks off the heating element.

Hi Randy,

I'll have a look at oil filled heaters.

Thanks,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, November 24, 2020 9:34 PM

Hi again Randy,

I had a look at the oil filled heaters and I have to confess that I'm not totally comfortable with them. The reason is that a number of reviewers reported leaking oil on most of the popular choices. I know that they represent a small percentage of the mostly positive reviews, but the last thing I want in the garage is an oil spill. Call me paranoid.

My little 1500 watt electric heater seems to do the job just fine, and I only have it set on medium. I'm only going to use it for a few hours at a time when I need to dry something so hopefully the electrical bill won't go nuts. Besides, we have a hot tub. I don't know what wattage the hot tub heaters are, but they are on their own 50 amp circuit. Compared to that, the little heater's consumption will be peanuts.

The heater is running as we speak in order to get the PL300 to set. After three days it is still pretty soft in the wider gaps. Can anyone tell me if it will eventually get hard, or does it stay pliable?

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 10:54 AM

Track fiddler
A radial arm saw!  Yowza!  Overhead bite and grab saw they should have called it.  They quit making those things for a reason.

I almost lost a finger in my old Craftsman Radial Arm Saw last year.

It has been replaced with a Delta miter saw.

Be careful Dave!

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 12:28 PM

Yikes!

I remember that when you were building your layout benchwork thread I think it was.  That finger injury was enough to give any one the Willies.

My bad experience was when I was in high school and I was using one at my friends lodge two resorts down.  I was making a coffee table for my Mom for Christmas.  The blade grabbed and tore up the board and a sharp chunk rebounded through my shirt and stuck in my stomach. 

Talk about a big sliver.  There wasn't much blood to speak of till I pulled it out.  Then there was!  I should have waited for the doctor at the ER room 33 miles away to pull it out.  It's pretty hard putting a tourniquet on ones stomach.

Needless to say I never used a radial arm saw again after that.  I still carry the scar to remind me.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to wear a face shield and a leather welding jacket using one of those things.

I would have to agree with Kevin Dave.  All power tools can be dangerous.  Radial arm saws can be downright snakey out of nowhere when you least expect it even using caution.

 

Be very careful

 

 

TF

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 4:27 PM

SeeYou190
Be careful Dave!

Hi Kevin,

Believe me, I am always careful when using the RAS. I have a little routine where I double check all the potential trouble spots before I move the wood or the blade. I alway draw a visual line where the blade will travel to make sure that line doesn't cross my fingers. I always check and re-check the direction of feed when I am ripping something. I always make sure that there are no obstacles when I am ripping a board so I don't get jambed up half way through a cut, and I always double check that the various locking mechanisms are tight. I always tell myself to take my time and focus.

I had one incident many years ago that could have been disasterous. Dianne and I were using a molding head to make some custom door trim. When the board was half way through the cut the head position lock came loose and the cutter started to wander sideways. If we had allowed the board to reverse direction even the slightest the saw would have grabbed the board and fired it out of the saw in Dianne's direction. I told her to hang on to the board as tightly as she could while I took one hand off the board to hit the kill switch. Fortunately nothing serious happened, but it was a real wakeup call!!

Ultimately there are lots of dangerous tools out there. I am much more concerned about using a chain saw or a circular saw than using the RAS. If you get complacent you might end up buying three fingered gloves!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Be safe everyone!

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 4:35 PM

hon30critter
Be safe everyone!

Yes, tools can be disasterous from hazards you are not even aware of.

That injury was not from the blade, but from a chunk of wood shooting out of the saw. Only heavy gloves would have prevented that injury.

I will never use a radial arm saw again.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 5:07 PM

SeeYou190
I will never use a radial arm saw again.

I have owned my RAS for close to 40 years and I have never had anything serious actually happen (came close once as I said in my previous post). I am comfortable with it but wary at the same time. However, there are significant reasons for why they are no longer made. They can be very dangerous, so I understand your feelings Kevin.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 9:08 PM

 I'm more worried about chopping the cord on my circular saw than I am about chopping a finger off. With the Kreg jig I have, it makes uctting consistent strips out of 3/4" plywood so much easier than trying to use a table saw - I can level a sheet of 3/4 onto sawhorses myself, but put a sheet up on a table saw, not to mention the room I'd need for a large enough saw plus an extra outfeed table - and then that same bugaboo when cutting raltively thing strips from heavy material of pinching it against the fence and having it shoot out of the saw like a spear - yeah, I'll pass. I did a bunch of stuff on the bandsaw in wood shop - that nightstand I made has a bunch of fancy curved edges that you can't easily cut any other way other than fastening the two sides together and then cutting the pattern on the bandsaw - talk about a dangerous tool. It's so easy to slive a finger off on one of those and not even realize it right away. Keep hands well away from the blade area. With more experience I probably could have gotten it smoother on the bandsaw pass, but I played it safe and just finished it to size ont he drum sander.

 Not too afraid of chainsaws, either. Respectful, yes. But I've been using them for many years. I also don;t even take a change with a log or tree that exceeds the saw's capacity - that's where you get into trouble, when the nose is full in the log and it kicks the blade out the bottom and right towards your legs. I know people who will fearlessly attack any size log with any size saw - not me, if it's bigger around then the blade length, I'll let one of those people do it and move on to the ones that are within the saw's capacity. ANd if you keep them maintained, you don't have to jerk them all over the place and risk an out of control saw ehen starting it.

 Thought I was going to be clever a couple of years ago - just outside by back fence there are thin diameter but annoying weeds that grou and and over and even through the fence. So I got a brush blade for my gas trimmer. No problem with that, but then I tried to get back there (engine NOT running - I'm not crazy). Extremely unsteady footing and a super tight fit around the one big tree there. At no point was I steady, so I just came back out and said forget it. Got the landscapers to clean it all out. Still haven't used that brush blade for anything. The usual trimmer line wouldn't go through my steel toed boots if I tripped, but that blade certainly would have.

 I's MUCH easier to build model trains when you have all 10 fingers. Even down an eye is easier that missing fingers. But now I use goggles for things most people don't even bother using them for - because I have one eye I can see out of and if something goes wrong there I'm done. No, not an accident, I covered it in a few threads. Just had another procedure on the left (good) eye, and now my doctor is completely out of options that he's comfortable with, so he's referring me to the big eye hospital for followup, because what he did seems to be working, but eventually it will fail again. Needless to say, I've made zero progress on my layout, again. Vision is not 100% back from the proceedure yet, so I'm not comfortable using the saw, but that's pretty mnuch where I'm at - need to make plywood strips to support the yard deck and then I can finally get some track down.

                                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 9:39 PM

I posted to your thread Dave and you didn't acknowledge meCrying

I must say I'm a bit of a messLaugh

That's kind of unlike you unless you're pissed at meIndifferent

 

 

WhistlingTF

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 10:29 PM

rrinker
With the Kreg jig I have, it makes cutting consistent strips out of 3/4" plywood so much easier than trying to use a table saw.

The Kreg jig for the circular saw is an amazing tool. I love mine.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 10:49 PM

Manly yes but I like it tooLaugh

I wouldn't trade my Kreg Jig for all the old tactics used before it, ...Irreplaceable!

I never use the plugs.  I construct things in such a manner to where they're hidden without them

 

 

TF

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 10:58 PM

I don't have the Kreg pocket screw jig set (yet).

The circular saw jig that I have is a real timesaver. It almost makes a table saw a needless item.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 11:59 PM

I'm sorry, I love my table saw.  I won't be getting that one.

To each their own though right.

 

 

TF

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