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Building a layout on a rotisserie

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, October 9, 2020 9:34 PM

hon30critter
Unfortunately both boards were about 1" shorter than what I needed but that's not a big deal. I can hide that when I finish the fascia.

As long as it can be hidden, it is not a problem!

Oh, the secret errors I have hidden behind fascias and underneath scenery.

Only the top 1/32" counts.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, October 9, 2020 10:51 PM

SeeYou190
As long as it can be hidden, it is not a problem! Oh, the secret errors I have hidden behind fascias and underneath scenery. Only the top 1/32" counts.

Thanks for comforting me Kevin!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

I thought about cutting about 12" off of the ends of both boards and then adding in a longer section, but my back was killing me so I decided to figure out how to fix the problem later.

I must admit that so far I haven't been able to take advantage of the layout's ability to rotate. Everything that I have done so far has required me to stand and I can only do that for short periods of time. That has forced me to do things a bit at a time so progress has been slow. My next step will be to plot the track location points. I will try to do that from a sitting position but I suspect that I will end up standing so that I can see the tape measures more easily. Once I get into the wiring and mounting the Tortoises I'm hoping the benefits of being able to rotate the benchwork will be realized.

Part of the problem is that I still need to clean a bunch of stuff out of the garage. The space around the layout is still quite tight. Some of that stuff still has some sentimental value to me, like all the stereo equipment and CDs. I'm reluctant to part with it but I need to get over that. It will likely never get used again. Our tiny little Google Home device is doing everything that we want.

Somebody give me a kick in the butt to get me moving!!

Cheers!!

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 9, 2020 11:16 PM

Have we addressed the system of selective counterweighting that might be needed to keep the rotisserie easy to stabilize when flipped with different structure on 'top'?  It will almost certainly be imbalanced for a considerable time during construction... and even with locking pins there may be benefits in stabilizing it (e.g. ease in releasing the pins if they stuck, or controlling the tilt if you were to be in a wheelchair at the pin insertion location...)

Seems to me that even a few holes with tee-nuts inserted behind for permanent threads could be provided for the equivalent of bobweights and that would prevent any potential accidents if the layout were 'reversed' to be worked on from below and the compression lock on the pivots became loose or slipped...

I think a simple spring scale hooked in one of the holes could read the imbalance at any time to give you the exact nominal weight to attach as counterbalance.

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, October 9, 2020 11:45 PM

Overmod
I think a simple spring scale hooked in one of the holes could read the imbalance at any time to give you the exact nominal weight to attach as counterbalance.

Hi Overmod,

Thanks for your suggestion but I honestly don't think that anything like that is necessary.

I did experience an imbalance in the benchwork when I was trying to install my first choice for locking the benchwork in place at whatever angle needed. I was trying to use large barrel bolt locks. When I installed the first two barrel bolts on one side of the layout they created an immediate imbalance, but it wasn't anything that I couldn't easily deal with. I was easily able to control the rotation with one hand despite the imbalance. FYI, the barrel bolts were far too sloppy so I replaced them with these:

The layout has proven to be easy to control when I am rotating it. I simply pull the four locking pins and then tilt the benchwork. Once it is at the desired angle I put the four locking pins back in place. A couple of the locking pins are a bit tight but I'm going to leave them like that for now. When they are in place there is no movement of the benchwork. I want to maintain that. The last thing I want is for the benchwork to be loose enough for it to wobble back and forth.

As for the weight that will be added as I install the structures and complete the scenery, I can't imagine that it will upset the balance to the point where rotating the layout becomes difficult.

Thanks for your suggestion and your interest,

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, October 10, 2020 11:50 AM

hon30critter
As for the weight that will be added as I install the structures and complete the scenery, I can't imagine that it will upset the balance to the point where rotating the layout becomes difficult.

I don't think I have built any moderately sized HO scale building that weighed enough to be a factor in anything.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, October 10, 2020 1:22 PM

 Unless you build the entire town out of cast Hydrocal structures...

                              --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, October 11, 2020 12:33 AM

rrinker
Unless you build the entire town out of cast Hydrocal structures...

I'm safe! I don't do hydrocal! I'm too much of a clutz to handle anything that breaks so easily.Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Seriously, The layout pivots very smoothly, and even when it was out of balance temporarily it only required a very light touch to control it.

Dave

Edit:

Halloween is coming and this thread is ready for it! To date there have been 666 posts!HmmLaughLaughWhistling

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, October 12, 2020 9:17 PM

I started marking the track location plotting points. So far so good, except my back quit after about 30 minutes.Grumpy I'm about 25% done. Once the points are all marked, the next step will be to join the dots. I'll have to come up with a suitable flexible straight edge. Maybe I'll try using a piece of flex track.


Edit: I just ordered a 24" flexible stainless steel straight edge. I hope it will be long enough for the purpose. The plotting points on the curves are about 6" apart.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 9:54 AM

hon30critter
Edit: I just ordered a 24" flexible stainless steel straight edge.

I recommend that you get a good 'adjustable spline curve, at least 36" if you can afford it.  The one I had resembled multiple thin plastic extrusions that slid into each other like dovetails, with the friction between them tending to hold the curve as 'bent'.  Here is a picture of the sort of thing I mean:

https://www.hartvilletool.com/product/8231/drawing-tools&psig=AOvVaw1xlHovqBhzBpH6PAQtAZit&ust=1602773672513000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCMD_6K-rtOwCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

Some designs may be better at 'locking in' a curve once bent, so you can more easily and exactly transfer a measured outline to uneven roadbed or use pins for markers. 

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Posted by Track fiddler on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 4:18 PM

Sounds like things are going good Dave with the exception of that back problem of yours.  I always feel bad when I hear that no matter who it is.  Mine goes out once in awhile and I would hate to even think about it being bad all the time.  I feel for ya

I was glad you added another post after number 666.  I don't particularly like that number,  I don't think anyone doesTongue Tied

No hurry but looking forward to seeing the progress picture when you have itYes  

 

 

TF

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 5:58 PM

Overmod
I recommend that you get a good 'adjustable spline curve, at least 36" if you can afford it.

Hi Overmod,

That's a really neat tool!

Last night I realized that I don't really need the flexible straightedge at all. All of the curves in my trackwork are constant radius. I would have loved to be able to use easements but given the space limitations they just didn't work. What that means as far as laying out the track is that I can just use a simple trammel to mark where the track goes. 3rd PlanIt will show me the centers of the curves so they will be easy to plot.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, October 14, 2020 6:09 PM

I got a big box delivered to the house today. It was from Cedar Creek Hobbies which is my primary source for modelling supplies. In it were several building and bridge structure kits, some of which I will comment on later, plus a whole bunch of cork roadbed cut to fit turnouts and a bunch of styrene scratch building supplies, and some detail parts and turnouts.

I now have everything I need to lay track so I'm hoping to start that in the next few days. I have to do some leveling of the 2" foam first. The joints aren't all quite flush. I ordered some Woodland Scenics foam putty for that purpose. I have to say that I am extremely disappointed with the quantity given what I paid for it! It is smaller than the average sour cream container. It's not worth $13.99 Cdn. for what I got.Grumpy It better work pretty good!!!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, October 15, 2020 1:24 AM

Hi again,

I said I would comment on a couple of the structure kits I just received, namely Lunde Studios 'Magnuson International' and 'The Bon Ton'. Both are multi story 1920s - 30s office buildings with identical brick and window patterns. I'm planning on kitbashing them into one larger structure.

Here is my beef. For some reason I thought that the Lunde kits came with separate windows so that they could easily be painted a different colour. Not so! In fact, the Lunde kits are almost exactly the same as the City Classics kits with the entire wall structures molded as one piece. The Lunde kits have somewhat finer detail but they cost almost triple what the City Classics kits cost.

So, what I thought would be a relatively easy painting process has turned out to be the same challenge as the City Classic kits. Lots and lots of masking required. I'm rather disappointed but I guess I should have verified my information before dropping the big bucks.

Oh well. Win some, lose some!SadSmile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, October 15, 2020 12:46 PM

 That's about par for Woodlnad Scenics. It's good stuff, but there is a price to pay. Many of their products are just repackages of other things you could get elsewhere for much lower cost - there's probably nothign special about the foam putty that you couldn;t find in a similar product where you could get a quart pail if not larger at the box store for that same price.

For actual gaps, as opposed to low spots, I'd probbaly use some expandiung foam, then trim it off as close to level as possible, and sand to final level. Some gaps between panels on my last layout I just filled in with some caulk, sometimes with a bit of scrap wood in place to fill up the space a little. That was just in the area for the roadbed to go over, so there wouldn't be a dip.

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by BATMAN on Thursday, October 15, 2020 1:12 PM

hon30critter
I have to do some leveling of the 2" foam first. The joints aren't all quite flush.

Dave, I treat the mismatched joints as natural undulating landscape. Where the track runs I smooth it out with a rasp making it look like a minor cut through the terrain or something similar and use dap or caulk to do minor buildup.

I just put tape over the cracks to prevent the ground cover from going through to the carpet below, once the ground cover is on and sprayed with glue the tape is hidden. Kinda like taping drywall, once covered its not visible.

 

 

Brent

It's not the age honey, it's the mileage.

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, October 16, 2020 1:28 AM

Hi Randy and Brent,

The differences in height are very minor (maybe 1/16"), but I recall problems on my old club's portable layout where slight differences that were impossible to see without a straight edge would cause constant problems. Obviously I don't want to go there.

I decided to try the foam as opposed to using a rasp simply to avoid the mess. One thing I noticed was that if I push the foam down hard enough I can get it almost level. I guess I didn't put enough weight on it when I installed it. Before I use the foam I'm going to squirt some Gorilla carpenters glue into the seam and apply a bunch of weight. If that doesn't eliminate the height difference at least it will prevent the adjacent slabs from moving relative to each other.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, October 16, 2020 4:36 AM

Second thoughts:

I have been plotting the track positions on the foam and when I look at the space between the fascia and the outer tracks it seems to be wider than I thought it would be. Hmmmm.

I wanted to have a decent amount of scenery between the track and the fascia. I really don't like it when the track is right at the edge of the layout. However, the space between the track and the fascia that I designed into the original plan resulted in me having to compromise on the curve radii. The restrictions resulted in radii between 21 3/4" and 24" on the inner and outer curves of the double mainline. I'm not going to be running long locomotives or boxcars, but I would like to be able to run the Canadian Pacific 'Canadian' passenger train with the full sized cars. My initial redesign attempts suggest radii in the 26" to 28" range. Much better IMHO.

So, I'm going back to the drawing board with the track plan. I don't plan on changing the concept but I think I can achieve somewhat larger radii than I originally thought possible.

I'll keep you posted.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, October 16, 2020 10:23 PM

hon30critter
So, I'm going back to the drawing board with the track plan. I don't plan on changing the concept but I think I can achieve somewhat larger radii than I originally thought possible.

Well, that didn't last long! After playing with the larger radii plan for a few hours I realized that it eliminated many of the scenic features that I wanted along the fascia. For example, both passenger stations were very difficult to position with the larger curves, and most of the highly detailed structures that I wanted people to see close up got moved too far towards the center of the layout.

So, the 'Canadian' will have to run on the outer loop. That works for me.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, October 16, 2020 11:47 PM

Earlier this week I got a shipment from my hobby shop worth several hundred dollars. After that, most sane people would give it a rest for a while. Not me! I just ordered another $750.00 worth of decoders, and some stock pens and cattle. Nobody can accuse me of not supporting my brick and mortar hobby shop!

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, October 22, 2020 11:12 PM

Sorry for the long pause. My back has kept me pretty much in bed for the last few days.Bang HeadGrumpyAngry I'm still trying to avoid the heavy pain killers.

The next step will be to finish marking all the track location points. That shouldn't take too long. Then I have to figure out how to level the slight differences between the slabs of foam. Nothing serious there either.

After that I will have to spend some time at the workbench. I need to build four Walthers plate girder bridges so I can use them to figure out the final details of the water feature. I'll admit that I am a bit rusty when it comes to building Walthers kits. The assembly instructions leave a great deal to be desired so I will just have to take it one step at a time. Even though there is a double mainline track where the bridges will go I'm going to build each bridge separately so I can have some flexibility with the track spacing. Also, the track will be curved over two of the bridges so I will have to remove the tie plate and spike detail on them and replace said detail if I feel it necessary to do so. I doubt that I'm going to bother.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, October 23, 2020 1:04 AM

hon30critter
I need to build four Walthers plate girder bridges so I can use them to figure out the final details of the water feature. I'll admit that I am a bit rusty when it comes to building Walthers kits.

If I am remembering the right kits, the Walthers plate bridges go together very easily without much problem.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, October 23, 2020 1:25 AM

SeeYou190
If I am remembering the right kits, the Walthers plate bridges go together very easily without much problem.

Thanks Kevin,

I still need to take my time to address all the minor details like filing off the mold seams and cleaning up the sprue attachment points so that the kits fit together properly. Nothing bothers me more than seeing a kit that has been glued together without proper preparation of the parts with the resulting gaps and misalignment.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, October 26, 2020 11:57 PM

The Walthers bridge kits are going together quite nicely. The parts fit better than I was expecting, and there is very little flash. The way the kit is designed pretty much covers up most visible mold seams.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, October 27, 2020 8:22 AM

 That's good to know. I have a couple. There's always a place for a bridge or two, right?

                                --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 5:07 AM

The Walthers through girder bridge kits are a bit strange. They supply enough parts to build two separate single track bridges or one double track bridge. However, the kit contains enough extra parts to actually build three separate single track bridges, and if they were to supply just two more girders, the kit would build four complete bridges. I need four bridges. The fact that I have to buy a complete second kit to get the fourth bridge is very annoying. If I had known this before buying two bridge kits I would have just ordered one kit and bought a couple of extra girders from Micro Engineering or elsewhere. I feel like Walthers has ripped me off!

Whine, whine, whine. I doubt that Walthers is listening.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, October 28, 2020 9:12 AM

It's all about mindset Dave. I see three bridges in one set as a bonus Smile.

Simon

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, October 29, 2020 8:40 AM

snjroy
It's all about mindset Dave. I see three bridges in one set as a bonus 

Hi Simon,

Yes, getting three bridges out of a kit that says it will build two bridges is definitely a bonus! Perhaps I was whining too loudly.EmbarrassedSmile, Wink & Grin I guess the upside is that I could actually build six bridges in total, but I won't assemble the last two bridges. I'll turn the extra girders into flat car loads and I'll see what I can do with the rest of the parts using them as trackside details.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

  • Member since
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  • From: Bradford, Ontario
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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, October 30, 2020 12:44 AM

I have a question about tie plates for the Walthers through girder bridges that I am building. The track on two of the bridges will be curved at a roughly 24" radius. That means that I had to remove the molded in tie plates that were on the bridges. Is there a way to model tie plates individually, or am I getting way too fussy? I don't think that just having the rails glued to the bridge ties will look very good. Should I just lose the supplied ties and use Micro Engineering bridge flex track? Does the ME bridge track only come in Code 70?

Thanks

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, October 30, 2020 1:42 AM

Yes, there are ways to model tieplates, and yes, there are people who make and sell them.  You will want to make jigs and tools to work with them as they are small and somewhat finicky to use.  If I remember correctly these have recently become cheaply 3D-printed as injection-molding setup was tedious for the required large gating and 'prep' time.

When I was playing with the idea, the available plates were formed like prototype, with a groove for the rail base and four little square holes for spikes.  I found it better to use 'top-down fixation' alignment for the rails, first pre-gluing the little plates to the ties in "proper" overall alignment, and then lightly gluing the rail in place (at the time, with thinned Goo) before securing with spikes.  Obviously someone familiar with hand-laying track will have better advice about this.

It has been noted that you can get much of the effect of tieplates simply by 'striping' along the ties either side of the rail with a thick generally rust-colored paint before you ballast.  If you are using any kind of pregauged or flex track, this is much preferable to trying to use any individual tieplate componentry...

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, October 30, 2020 2:16 AM

Overmod
Yes, there are ways to model tieplates, and yes, there are people who make and sell them.

Hi Overmod,

I found HO scale tie plates on the Proto 87 website, and they would definitely do the trick, but I'm going to pass. The cost to get enough plates to Canada is in excess of $40.00 Cdn. I can't justify that for such a minor detail that very few people would notice.

Thanks for your help.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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