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New house!!!

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 11:42 AM

Your edited version:

Mike.

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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 1:16 PM

The latest seems somewhat at odds with your goals. If you intend to stand outside at the far right of the donut, most of the turnouts and locations where you would be coupling/uncoupling cars will be far out of reach. So you would be ducking under and into the center a lot -- why not just plan for that to be the primary operating position?

Or if that idea doesn't work for you, most of the turnouts and spurs might be moved where they could be more easily reached from outside.

It's not clear to me -- can the space over the dresser be used for a shelf to extend the layout or would you prefer not?

Byron

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 1:23 PM

Byron.  Laugh  God bless you, you ARE trying to work with the guy but ...

The garage beckons!

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Wdodge0912 on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 2:00 PM

 

riogrande5761

 

 
Wdodge0912
I'd love a garage layout,

 

Priorities man!

 

 
but then I have no room to park the car.

 

You make it sound like a bad thing.  I've almost never parked my car in a garage and it's been ok.  As it is wife and could fit at least one car in our two car garage, what with stuff in there, and we still both park outside.

 

 

I need a lot of room in there, for my eventual workshop for my boats.   N scale is a maybe, but i think i can get away with something in HO, at least I'm hoping.

 

Maybe you just "aren't there" yet.  A small circle of track with a few siding may become "meh" after a short time and if the model RR disease takes hold, and you want that Walthers steel mill, ahem ...

 

 

The steel mill was just to tie back into my main hobby of RC warships. That's my main hobby, and why I wont be doing a garage layout.

 

I do have like a 5x10 shed outside that needs some work, bit could insulate and run power out to it for heat and trains

rrinker

 Picture insert requires the the to be referenced as some image file format, like .JPG. Imgur appears to only give a randomized page link to the page containing your picture. If might offer more choices to you as owner of the account.

You can get away with HO in that space, but it requires some decision making. There really isn't room for a lot of switching AND continuous run AND large modern locos and cars. Pick 2, basically.

The donut lan Byron posted could be adpated to fit, however, it wouldn;t be practical. As he mentioned, it was designed to be accessible from the outside as well as from within the donut hole. Without that outside access, there are turnouts and crossings that could be trouble spots that would be hard to get at trying to reach from the hole. You could eliminate some of the inside sidings to make the hole bigger, allowing reach to the other track, but now you've made it a lot more of just a round and round layout without many switching opportunities.

 My old 8x12 donut layout was like that one - 2 sides were agains walls, but the other two sides were eacily accessible, so along the sides against the walls, all track was within easy reach of the hole, on the other two sides, there was track on both sides , so some things you coudl do from in the hole, and others you had to be on the outside.

Another option if continuous run is the one of the three things you cna give up would be a U shaped switching layout. It doesn't take much benchwork width to have the main line and some industry spots on either side of it. On one leg, you could have a detachable staging yard to set up when running trains that can be easily unclipped and stored under the layout, or maybe put it on wheels so it can be wheels into the open area of the U when not in use. If really ambitious, two such removeable sections, one on each end. They don;t need to be attaced for just alittle switching around, but by attaching them, you have a place for trains to go to and come from off the layout. 

 But I like switching - if there were no other alternatives, either this or have no layout, I would be happy with something like that. Small though ti would be, the switching moves could keep you busy for hours. Especially if you include sidings facing both ways, and one train heads around the layout clockwise and only services trailing point turnouts, and then after that train finishes up, another comes around counter clockwise and handles all the opposite sidings as trailing point moves.

                                   --Randy

 

 

I'm fine with older locos, My favorite is the GP9. AMD I'm not too concerned about the size of what it pulls..the continuous running is something I'd want, as I do have an Athearn F unit and matching passanger cars, all were set to run 18" curves.

 

cuyama

The latest seems somewhat at odds with your goals. If you intend to stand outside at the far right of the donut, most of the turnouts and locations where you would be coupling/uncoupling cars will be far out of reach. So you would be ducking under and into the center a lot -- why not just plan for that to be the primary operating position?

Or if that idea doesn't work for you, most of the turnouts and spurs might be moved where they could be more easily reached from outside.

It's not clear to me -- can the space over the dresser be used for a shelf to extend the layout or would you prefer not?

Byron

 

 

I can add on a shelf, but it would have to be free standing on the dresser. There is a window behind it. But the whole layout will be free standing anyways. That idea I posted would be standing in the center. I also cant add that shelf on to the layout software, the bemchwork doesnt work. But pretty much I'd make that upper left corner a switch and have it come out from there.

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Posted by cuyama on Tuesday, March 3, 2020 5:15 PM

It doesn’t usually seem to help for me to draw track plans for folks on forums, but I was stuck on a long, boring conference call earlier today (is there any other kind?). So I cranked out these two quickly with the discussion on speaker and mute, but they would need more work to tailor for particular interests, industries, etc. – the solution is left to the student. They are also drawn with flextrack. It would be a significant job to do these with sectional track – although the inner oval is pretty straightforward. 

Both of these assume that some industries are flats or low-relief structures against the walls. They also assume most operation from the center opening. Minimum turnouts are Atlas #4 (actually #4½), the crossovers are #6s. Track-center-to-track-center spacing is generally 2½”

This first one keeps the entire layout self-contained within the alcove. We keep the entrance area benchwork narrow, but take advantage of more depth at the back for a small yard. One would definitely need flextrack for those curves. The Atlas turntable is just plopped in there; an industry instead would be fine.

The second extends the yard out over the dresser. The yard throat and coupling/uncoupling points are within reach from the center opening.

I hope this illustrates what I have been suggesting – and perhaps these will be helpful, both to the original poster and those following along.

Byron

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:00 PM

Byron, nice examples.

I can't believe you can just toss these things together while on a conference call. I get so frustrated trying to draw track plans.

It is certainly not my thing.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:45 PM

 FOr me, I thinkt he hardest point is gettign the fill ine the irregular shape to leave the donut hole and fill in under the track within the outer perimeter in green like that. But there's probably a fairly easy way to do that that I don't know, so I would do it the hard way and make various shapes around the edges.

Although now that I thinka bout it - probably can just create a polygon in the middle and cut it out, after filling the entire thing in green. There are so many things I don't use in 3rd PlanIt that I have no idea how to use them. Kind of like Office. I've done complex solutions with VBA in Excel but there are tons of features in Excel I have no clue how to use.

                                          --Randy

 

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 2:02 PM

rrinker
tons of features in Excel I have no clue how to use.

I wonder how many people even use 5% of what Excel can do.

I just learned how to make pivot tables... very handy.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 3:08 PM

SeeYou190
I can't believe you can just toss these things together while on a conference call. I get so frustrated trying to draw track plans.

After you have done a couple of hundred of anything, you've made enough mistakes to work faster in the future.  Smile

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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 3:12 PM

rrinker
Although now that I thinka bout it - probably can just create a polygon in the middle and cut it out, after filling the entire thing in green.

That doesn't work as one might wish in 3rd PlanIt.

Instead I use the "Freehand Polygon" tool to draw the shape of the benchwork fill. One can add and move points on the boundaries to make adjustments. Maybe on the next long conference call I'll try to work up an example that can be posted here.

Byron

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 3:29 PM

 Now that you say it, I understand what you mean. In fact I just did a quick drawing of a square and then made a random shape donut hole in the middle usig the polygon.

                                      --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by cuyama on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 6:31 PM

rrinker
Now that you say it, I understand what you mean. In fact I just did a quick drawing of a square and then made a random shape donut hole in the middle usig the polygon.

Yes, that adds one (irregular) polygon on top of another polygon. And that works fine to illustrate a lot of situations.

But if you want the space completely open (as in the center of the layouts I posted with the grid showing below), it is a little more involved. If you play around with the “Freehand Polygon” tool, you will likely discover it – I’ll post on it when I have time.

There are also probably ways to do it with meshes, but I work in 2-D only.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, March 4, 2020 6:44 PM

deleted

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by Wdodge0912 on Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:19 AM

http://imgur.com/a/Vwk3qlv

 

That's the shed. Could do with a new floor, and it needs the gable peice to seal it up, but I can run electrical out there and insulate it. Plan to turn it so it takes up less yard one way, so then all that worl can be done. Put my electric radiator out there too for heat in the winter. Other than electrical and heat, all the other work it going to be done to store some things out there anyways. 

 

What would the general opinion be on a layout in there?

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:42 AM

Oh boy! Surprise

Lots of work!  How big is it?

I'd fix it for storage, and use the space you have inside.  

Byron's last two plans look pretty good to me.

Mike.

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Posted by Wdodge0912 on Thursday, March 5, 2020 2:30 PM

If guess 5x10. So narrower but deeper. Not sure without getting a tape out, but have been busy all day to do it.

It's definitely getting fixed for storage. 

 

They do look good, bit that's more than I'm looking for. I don't need to go for that much. Idk what you'd say I'm looking for, but that's a lot. I just want a few spurs for the a few small industries, and for it to be able to run all the way around.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, March 5, 2020 2:51 PM

You don't have to install of of the track Byron shows, he's just giving you some ideas.  Install what you want. 

Make it one loop around with some industries to switch.

I guess you'll have to decide what you want.  It all depends on how serious you are about having a model railroad.

Maybe you could use the space to display your batteships, when they are not engaging the enemy.  A place you can tinker with them, instead of a cold garage.

You decide.  The forums will always be here.

Mike.

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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, March 5, 2020 3:00 PM

rrinker
FOr me, I thinkt he hardest point is gettign the fill ine the irregular shape to leave the donut hole and fill in under the track within the outer perimeter in green like that.

I posted a new thread with a very crude video to describe how I do it (which is not likely not the only way ... or even the best way):

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/281216.aspx

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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, March 5, 2020 3:09 PM

mbinsewi
You don't have to install all of the track Byron shows, he's just giving you some ideas.  Install what you want.

+1

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, March 5, 2020 3:31 PM

 Leave off a few sidings, call that "future expansion"

Because the first rule of model railroading is, the layout will expand to occupy all available space.

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Wdodge0912 on Thursday, March 5, 2020 11:20 PM

cuyama
 

 

So looking more at this one, I think this is what I'm going to go with, with a slight modification. I would drop the 2 spurs on the bottom there, and make the oval part bigger, and make the hole a little bigger.

 

Then the only other thing I might have to change is the length of the yard on the top, i say might because I dont know how long of a section I will be able to have there. But it should be plenty long enough anyways

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, March 6, 2020 6:40 AM

Report the dimensions of the shed when you get a chance.  If that is more space, I'd be tempted to insulate it as you commented.

You can still store stuff under a layout and the layout can be around the walls with a lift out bridge.  Perhaps you can build shelfs up high too, to maximize storage capacity and still have your cake and eat it too.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Wdodge0912 on Friday, March 6, 2020 10:35 PM

riogrande5761

Report the dimensions of the shed when you get a chance.  If that is more space, I'd be tempted to insulate it as you commented.

You can still store stuff under a layout and the layout can be around the walls with a lift out bridge.  Perhaps you can build shelfs up high too, to maximize storage capacity and still have your cake and eat it too.

 

 

Will get to it after work. Tried to earlier but wasn't able to, had other stuff to get done around the house, like installing a lock box over the thermostat....

 

We don't have much that would be put in the shed, it could probably all fit underneath the layout. And I'm going to be doing the work anyways is the way I look at it. Yea going out there in the winter would be a bummer having to get in through the snow, but I could do it. I think I'd even be running electricity for a light out there anyways, putting my trains out there that just means more, brighter ones than just a single bulb. 

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Posted by Wdodge0912 on Monday, March 9, 2020 5:45 PM

Shed is 12ft x 10ft inside. The 10ft is also from inside to inside of the studs

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 9, 2020 6:01 PM

 Well, that's a bit more space, at the expense of having to insulate, heat, cool, and run electric to it. ANd slog through the snow to get out there.

 Maybe it would make a better boat workshop, and put the layout in the garage.

                                       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by maxman on Monday, March 9, 2020 7:11 PM

 

I haven't be following this thread too closely.  However, since it appears to me that both of the above plans are basically double track loops which would allow two trains to operate in opposite directions, and assuming normal right hand operation, there are a plethora of facing point sidings.  I would get tired of that really quickly.

 

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Posted by cuyama on Monday, March 9, 2020 8:47 PM

maxman
However, since it appears to me that both of the above plans are basically double track loops which would allow two trains to operate in opposite directions, and assuming normal right hand operation, there are a plethora of facing point sidings.  I would get tired of that really quickly.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course. But bear in mind:

1) That's why there are runarounds formed by the crossovers

2) Trains could work the spurs in one direction, runaround, and then work in the other direction.*

3) The above seems like fun to me

4) YMMV

* Edit: Or run one "eastbound" and one "westbound". Also fun.

 

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Posted by Wdodge0912 on Tuesday, March 10, 2020 6:27 AM

rrinker

 Well, that's a bit more space, at the expense of having to insulate, heat, cool, and run electric to it. ANd slog through the snow to get out there.

 Maybe it would make a better boat workshop, and put the layout in the garage.

                                       --Randy

 

 

if it was a train shed or a boat shop, I'd have to do all the same things to it, insulate it, run electricity for tools, heat in the winter, cool in the summer. Plus with it being more of a workshop for boats, I'd havbe to be ducking down all the time to work on anything. With trains, I could have a nice swivelly chair to spin around. I mean, both ways I'm ducking when inside, but with trains I won't have to constantly be ducking. 

With the boat shop in the garage and the trains in the shed, I can still park my car in the garage though. And with the trains in the shed I can store things below the layout. 

 

With a car parked in the garage, the space available isn't neary as big as the shed would be. 

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, March 10, 2020 6:39 AM

I guess your project for this summer is to fix up the shed for a train room.

Where is your electric service panel located? and how far away is the shed from the house?  I'm guessing you have a 100 amp service?

Mike.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 10, 2020 7:32 AM

 I'd potentially guess 100 amp service since it seems to be an older home, but around here, 200 amp has been the standard for many years. We had 100 amp where I grew up, built in 1952, but I have 200 amp here, built in 1972.

                                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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