New house!!!

[Wdodge0912]

riogrande5761

See when you came into this forum, you exposed yourself to people who are long time train nuts.  Trains are not generally a secondary or tertiary past time, but a passion for many in this forum.  

I mean, that garage is prime layout space and boats?   (if I could afford a floating money pit, I might have one but I've put a tarp over it and put trains in the garage barring having no basement or house space.

 

The boats are RC boats. Warships actually. They shoot BBs at each other and sink when they take too much damage and the bilge pump cant keep up. I have 4 right now all in various states of disrepair, lol. I'm working on getting my SMS Baden going for this upcoming battle season. Then I'll probably build my Duca D'Aosta cruiser, or get a different German cruiser. Probably do that, and sell the Duca and another one of my ships that needs a ton of work to get the hull even in a decent shape to be used in the hobby 

 

Trains are not a primary hobby for me. Only reason I got any was because I had the opportunity to get a lot of stuff cheap and a lot free. A buddy was going to trade his lot for $20 store credit, so I gave him $40. That same store owner was also retiring and selling the business to a different group that doesnt do trains, and sold me a lot of new track cheap. Then my grandpa gave me my grandma's stuff. 

 

 

I could do a shelf layout in the garage I suppose. But the one thing I want to do is have a loop, so I can let the trains roll. If it wasn't for all the HO stuff I already have, I'd have gone N scale.

 

If the bedroom doesn't work out, I might do a very small 15" curved door layout for the HO. I have a GE44 tonner, and use some very small cars with it. 

 

I might look at moving both dressers on the one wall though, and having the turns be at each end of the inside wall. Have the one come around the corner and then go back. Idk what I'd do for industries though 

 

I could fit a door layout up there, but that means N scale, or 15" radius turns, so super short cars in super short trains. I do have a GE44 ton switcher, and a SW1500 I think it is. 

[SeeYou190]

Wdodge0912

The garage is going to be a work area for my boats and parking my car for now

Your warship hobby sounds fascinating. Like live-action wargaming!

Trains were a secondary hobby of mine for decades. They have only recently assumed the top-tier position.

Your plan sounds solid. I built five layouts of various sizes, scales, and eras as I learned about the hobby.

Enjoy!

-Kevin

[mbinsewi]

Wdodge0912

So the bedroom I would be putting it in has an area that comes off of the room, and is behind the upstairs bathroom. It's 8ft deep and 5.5ft wide. 

OK, I see.

 

 

 

So if anything, the short side would be the lift-out or duck-under.

I could make it work, but I'm into trains, which seems to be just a small interest to you because of the stuff you got cheap.

Your call my friend! Ships, rabbits & trains?

For me it would be TRAINS, although the ships sounds cool.  I did a fireplace for a guy that built model tanks, that crawled around his house and shot at each other.

Your battleship live action wargamming sounds pretty cool!

Mike.

[Wdodge0912]

so even on my PC I don't have a working image function. weird. 

Anyways. What if I did a 3.5ft by 8ft in that area? I would have to use 18" radius curves, and it would be tight, but i plan to run smaller stuff anyways

 

This is what I'm thinking

https://imgur.com/Abs7ukD

 No yard, but I'm fine with that. gives me the ability to let a train roll, still have some switching, and no need to really go DCC.  probably not the best, but it would work, and I can take the 4x8 I have at my grandpa's and just cut off the half a foot. 

I based that on a HO door layout i found online, it used 15" curves, but i switched to 18"s. going 8ft also let me make the spurs bigger.  I could see about splitting that bottom one twice and make a smaller yard, maybe something like this

https://imgur.com/a/JbuzZ7X

 

[riogrande5761]

Eighteen inch curves would be ok as long as you stick with 4-axle engines and 40 and 50' freight cars.  Some longer equipment will operate on 18 inch curves - including some six axle diesels and 60' freight cars or shorty passenger cars.

[mbinsewi]

Wdodge0912

 No yard, but I'm fine with that. gives me the ability to let a train roll, still have some switching, and no need to really go DCC.  probably not the best, but it would work, and I can take the 4x8 I have at my grandpa's and just cut off the half a foot. 

Just what Rio said, yes, 18" r. you could make work.  NOT the 15"

Mike.

[cuyama]

Wdodge0912

What if I did a 3.5ft by 8ft in that area?

It's up to you, of course, but if you are OK with a duckunder to the center, a donut may offer broader curves, less track perilously close to the edge of the benchwork, and more interesting layout elements.

This 6X8 HO donut is too wide as-is and is designed to be accessed from the outside, so it does not take advantage of the walls the way your layout could, but gives a general idea of what is possible.

(I have posted this recently in someone’s thread, I apologize for the repetition if it was one of yours.)

Byron

[mbinsewi]

Good call Byron, that is way to wide to reach across, and not enough room to walk the long sides.

The donut! 

That's why I"M not the layout designer..........just a cheerleader..!  GO BUILD...GO BUILD...  

Mike.

[Wdodge0912]

So if I was to do that, what would be a good width to use? 2ft all the way around, save for the one short side? Would that be too narrow in between? 18" makes it 36" wide total, so I'd have the center opening be 2.5ft wide?

 

Maybe some kind of difference, like 2.5ft on the inside and 1ft on the outside?

 

I'd still make that section a lift out, so I'm not crawling under it. I was going to make it free standing just because there are windows on the outer walls. Didnt want to block them or anything, as I will be putting curtains on them to block out light during the day when I'm sleeping (I work nights currently)

[mbinsewi]

What ever works for you.  There is no rule as far as how big the "donut" hole should be.  

Mike.

[rrinker]

 No ne says the donut hole ahs to be square, either. At the very center, the sides could be fairly narrow, even 12", but then curve out, so you end up with sort of a football shaped donut hole, the widest part being 3' and then tapering rowards what would be the top and bottom of the room drawing. By tapering it out, the opening would just be one narrow slot of reasonably width that quickly turns in to too small a space. 

 You can always just fill the whole space in and cut access hatches to retrieve things. Make it sturdy enough and you cna do what I did building the layouts I built when I was a kid - crawl on top of it to get to the back, and build outward. And after that, use the access hatches for maintenance and to retrieve a derailed train.

                                          --Randy

[cuyama]

rrinker

No one says the donut hole has to be square, either.

+1

As I keep suggesting, benchwork depth can, and usually should, vary. The donut-style layout I posted had the benchwork built before the track plan (not usually recommended), so it was all rectangular.

[rrinker]

 Not a whole lot of optiosn here, because the rather narrow 5 foto dimension contrains just how big the donut hole can be. Too small and it might as well not even be there as it will be uncomfortable to stand in - as a pretty big guy, if the hole were only 30" wide, I'd get annoyed fairly quickly. If it were 3' wide with gently curving in sides, I could spin around to follow a train comfortably and not feel pinched in.

                         --Randy

[Wdodge0912]

So what if I took a 4x8, lopped it in half and put the halves against the walls, and then got some peices to fill in the "gap" on the short side, while also curving it, making the now hole in the middle round. 

 

I could also cut on of the 2x8 sides down to 18" to make the hole bigger. 

 

I'm just not sure what I can do with tracks on that space. 

 

I'm also thinking if I build it high enough, air can come overtop of one of my dressers. Still have the original size, but also have a section that just out as wide and as long as the dresser. The window on that side though is right there, but I do have to contend with the one window at the end of the nook anyways

[rrinker]

So, not trains, buit is this what you do with the RC ships?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPzvMfoLKhA

                                   --Randy

 

[Wdodge0912]

rrinker

So, not trains, buit is this what you do with the RC ships?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPzvMfoLKhA

                                   --Randy

 

 

 

That it is. IRCWCC Fast Gun. I had an HMAS Australia battlecruiser last year, but I traded that off for the French Predreadnought Verite. I'm working on an SMS Baden right now. I also have a Duca D'Aosta light cruiser, and a Posen hull in poor shape. I'm currently without a functioning ship :/

[rrinker]

 I saw a different video first, and I kept wondering how much you lose if your ship sinks, and how they keep from damaging the radio gear - this video clarified all that. Certainly would be a summer-only activity around here, because if my ship sank more than ankle deep in a pond this time of year, it's staying for a while, the heck if I'm getting in water that's barely above freezing.

 With no ship - you could use the radio gear to make a wireless walkaround throttle for the trains. 

                            --Randy

[Wdodge0912]

rrinker

 I saw a different video first, and I kept wondering how much you lose if your ship sinks, and how they keep from damaging the radio gear - this video clarified all that. Certainly would be a summer-only activity around here, because if my ship sank more than ankle deep in a pond this time of year, it's staying for a while, the heck if I'm getting in water that's barely above freezing.

 With no ship - you could use the radio gear to make a wireless walkaround throttle for the trains. 

                            --Randy

 

 

The pond here in Michigan is one of the deeper ponds of the hobby, so I'm told (only battled there, so I cant speak on the rest of the battle locations). But it definitely is a summer hobby here. 

 

My ship has shower pan liner to keep BBs from hitting the guts. I'm using lipos, so those will get some extra protection. My last ship had fiberglass boards installed to stop the BBs.

 

And scoring is all on points. I still dont understand it though. I know the values, and how to calculate it all, but I'm not sure how who gets what points is determined. But I don't go for the points anyways. 

 

I have several radios for a remote throttle. Eventually I want to make an O scale train remote controlled so I can have a backyard layout around a small flowerbed. Put a battery in a B unit or tender or something. But that's all farther down the line. 

 

 

As for the layout, I have that 4x8 to work with, as well as what looks like a 4x4 table. The 4x4 has a hole cut into it, was used at the end of the 4x8 and had a track run around it, while the operator stood in the hole. I'm not sure how big the hole is, as there was stuff on the table.

 

Would 18" work for like a 3 or 4 spur yard? I'm really thinking of doing the layout like a shelf with an outside return path. If 2ft would be fine for one side, I could have a staging yard on the other.  A 2ft and an 18" section would give me a 2ft gap. I'd probably have the front section that's 2ft skinny so I could get by easily, and then the back also have 2ft. I could also extend out the layout above the dresser, keeping it at the 18" should be fine.

 

The question then though is should I put it up taller so it's easier to duck under, or make the one section a lift out, and have it short and free standing. The windows is really what I am thinking free standing for, since the one is almost as wide as the 5.5ft section. The other is behind the dresser as well. They are pretty big windows. 

 

The table would be 8ftx5.5ft, and the hole would be 2ftx5ft. If the 18" doesnt work for to much of a yard, I could cut the one side from 18" to 12", and have the hole 2.5ft 

 

Such as this 

http://imgur.com/a/LxoMk6Z

[mbinsewi]

I also watched the ship video, cool stuff!  Lots of work.  Trains could now be your winter hobby, kinda like what I do. 

Your new plan sorta goes back to what you had before, OK, as far as height, mine is at 50", for me, for the viewing, and working on things.  I do have a step that I use to reach some things, when needed.

The height is your call, the higher, the easier to duck under.

Why don't you use the track you have, make some templates, and play around with the layout and see what you can make fit.

Or at least do a scaled drawing, then you can make bench top adjustments, as you go.

Work with what you have.

I'll say it again, I'm NOT a track designer, but I do appriciate someone trying to make what they have, work.  That's about the way I roll.  "Lets see what I can come up with"...

You can get some ideas down, so next fall, when the MI. winter starts to blow in, you can start your layout.

Mike.

[hon30critter]

Wdodge0912

The pond here in Michigan is one of the deeper ponds of the hobby

This is going to sound like I am a tree hugger! So what, I am a tree hugger!!

Are you using copper BBs? I'm concerned about the BBs that miss their targets and end up on the bottom of the pond. A lot of them will be injested by waterfowl. The birds could end up with bellys full of BBs.

I do see a possible solution, although getting people to support it might take some work. That would be to use projectiles that are easily biodegradeable. Maybe something like compressed flour pellets. They wouldn't exactly be healthy for the ducks (you could add vitamins), but they would pass through their systems easily without doing much harm. I'm sure it would take some work to develop a suitable bullet. I can just see a couple of damp, sticky pellets jamming up the firing mechanisms, and the pellets that do hit their targets might leave a bit of a mess in the bilges, but that's just part of the challenge!

Please understand that I am not being critical of the hobby. It sounds like a blast! (pardon the pun). All I'm suggesting is that some thought be given to addressing a potential negative side effect. I believe that the hunting industry has moved away from lead shot. This would be a similar move forward.

Okay, preaching over!

Dave

[Wdodge0912]

hon30critter

 

 

Wdodge0912

The pond here in Michigan is one of the deeper ponds of the hobby

 

 

This is going to sound like I am a tree hugger! So what, I am a tree hugger!!

Are you using copper BBs? I'm concerned about the BBs that miss their targets and end up on the bottom of the pond. A lot of them will be injested by waterfowl. The birds could end up with bellys full of BBs.

I do see a possible solution, although getting people to support it might take some work. That would be to use projectiles that are easily biodegradeable. Maybe something like compressed flour pellets. They wouldn't exactly be healthy for the ducks (you could add vitamins), but they would pass through their systems easily without doing much harm. I'm sure it would take some work to develop a suitable bullet. I can just see a couple of damp, sticky pellets jamming up the firing mechanisms, and the pellets that do hit their targets might leave a bit of a mess in the bilges, but that's just part of the challenge!

Please understand that I am not being critical of the hobby. It sounds like a blast! (pardon the pun). All I'm suggesting is that some thought be given to addressing a potential negative side effect. I believe that the hunting industry has moved away from lead shot. This would be a similar move forward.

Okay, preaching over!

Dave

 

 

I have brought up the thought of a better biodegradable BB before I got into the hobby. I was shut down. I suggested moving to airsoft BBs that are biodegradable. Bigger. So that would require a change in guns, just the big gun combat ships use even bigger sizes of ball bearings.

 

Theres a little bit (read a lot) of an elitism in the hobby, pretty much if you question anything, including safety issues, if it would make the old stubborn veterans in the hobby have to make a change, you are wrong. (The contest director does a visual check of boats to ensure co2 bottle are disconnected from ships before the pits can be called cold. But the use of one way check valves hold co2 in the system still even with the co2 bottle pulled. It was my opinion that unless check valves are outlawed, or the CD visually watches every ship empty the stored co2, the CD cant, by their own written rules, call the pits cold, you couldn't tell which ships still had air in their systems . I was told it's up to the captains to ensure they empty their air systems,they weren't a safety issue, and the CD can call the pit cold with just bottles removed.)

Little bit of a tanget there, but that just shows what I am talking about. The thought about check valves making the CDs ability to call the put cold with a quick visual check impossible was a huge issue that I was told I was wrong, because that's they way they have always done it.

 

I personally use the hornady black anodized steel BBs, most use the cheap plain steel ones. The copper ones are used by a few people, but from testing I guess just aren't as accurate as plain steel bbs, or as fast as the anodized ones, due to too much variation on them to be consistent. Not many use them, but they do get used.

 

I know one thing that was said on the issue was that steel bbs "should be fine," as that is what the federal government says can be used for hunting waterfowl. I guess it kind of makes sense, that the little amount of BBs the hobby as a whole uses doesnt amount to nearly as much as waterfowl hunting, and the BBs we shoot are practically the same as what would be used for that as well. I can't speak for how good or bad the the copper ones are, but those are copper coated, it's still steel on the inside. I'd assume there's regulations for enviromental concerns, since BBs are used for more than destroying balsa on an RC boat.

 

If you would like to ask those more "knowledgeable" in the hobby about itz.Id have to direct you to the forums that most communications occur on.

[rrinker]

 I saw a neat video where the use 1/16th scale tanks - IR sensors, they don;t actually shoot projectiles. Also very detailed scale model tanks. Looks like basically playing World of Tanks (one of the few video games I play) from a third person perspective (using the radio). It was at some tank museum in South Carolina or somewhere down that way, the playing field was a highly detailed giant diorama, scale buildings for the bombed out town, scale trees, etc. Just needed a bombed out train.

Yes, 18" is plenty wide enough for 3 or 4 tracks in a yard. In 24", I have 5 yard tracks, 2 AD tracks, and 2 mains.

                               --Randy

 

[hon30critter]

Wdodge0912

I have brought up the thought of a better biodegradable BB before I got into the hobby.

Hi Wdodge0912,

You have no idea how happy I am to hear that you were already aware of my concerns!! I admire you for that!

It is unfortunate that making change in our society is so difficult.

Dave

[BNSF UP and others modeler]

rrinker

 Looks like basically playing World of Tanks (one of the few video games I play) from a third person perspective (using the radio). 

                               --Randy

 

 

Thats cool! Finally another tank fan that plays World of Tanks on these forums! Have you made it to tier ten yet?

 

Ok, back to origional thread topic...

[Wdodge0912]

I saw that video. I'm fairly certain they do that every year, but I think WoT did something with sponsoring it one year or something like that. Looked fun.

 

Some of the boat guys build 1/6 scale tanks. They are like 3ft+ long. Armed with a paintball cannon for the main cannon. I was going to do that, but it's a very regional being mostly in Maryland, but it also seems like it's a dead hobby too. 

 

Im probably going to go with one side being as big as possible (3ft?) and a narrow return track. I'll have it a duck under, but operate it from outside the track. So have the hole just bug enough for me to crawl under and get to the back.

 

If I make the return track 8", I'll just need to have the corners for 18" curves, but I may use my 22" ones, and just fill in what I need to keep them on wood. 

 

I'll probably go as wide as possible for the main bench, and use 18" there to get the most room out of it. The back will also be like 2ft at least.

 

So one thing I was thinking of on this layout, would be a steel mill. I'd go a bit earlier than what I have for Locomotives for a main running train, do something set in the 30s, but with the RC ships in mind, the mill would be making up the Krupp armor for them, lol. (Not really, but the idea of the steel mill making the ships armor wood tie into my other hobby) Just a thought on that. 

[mbinsewi]

OK, well, your already literally "backed in a corner" with your layout size, and now your thinking steel mill?  .

You MIGHT be able to do just a tiny, tiny part of steel mill operations, by using ALL of your space.  

Maybe you could narrow it down to a real compressed version of the armor manufacturing, with flats of steel plate going in.

Mike.

[riogrande5761]

mbinsewi

OK, well, your already literally "backed in a corner" with your layout size, and now your thinking steel mill?  .

Mike.

 

That garage is looking better all the time isn't it? 

 

I first saw new topic with the title, NEW HOUSE!!!!  and then the wah wah trombones started up when I saw the tiny space being alotted.  The title was a major wind-up for a even bigger let down.  

Two words:  GARAGE LAYOUT!  Give in to the schwartz!  

 

Or N-scale.   

[Wdodge0912]

mbinsewi

OK, well, your already literally "backed in a corner" with your layout size, and now your thinking steel mill?  .

You MIGHT be able to do just a tiny, tiny part of steel mill operations, by using ALL of your space.  

Maybe you could narrow it down to a real compressed version of the armor manufacturing, with flats of steel plate going in.

Mike.

 

 

I know nothing about steel mills, so i wasn't aware how big one would be. maybe i'll do something else if i kept with the naval theme, i could do the plant that makes the shells, or guns, torpedoes, things like that. armor was the first thing I thought since it would have a few different things coming in. 

 

and i don't have to go naval/military themed either, just was thinking it would tie into my warships.

 

riogrande5761

 

 

mbinsewi

OK, well, your already literally "backed in a corner" with your layout size, and now your thinking steel mill?  .

Mike.

 

 

 

That garage is looking better all the time isn't it? 

 

I first saw new topic with the title, NEW HOUSE!!!!  and then the wah wah trombones started up when I saw the tiny space being alotted.  The title was a major wind-up for a even bigger let down.  

Two words:  GARAGE LAYOUT!  Give in to the schwartz!  

 

Or N-scale.   

 

 

I'd love a garage layout, but then I have no room to park the car. I need a lot of room in there, for my eventual workshop for my boats.

 

N scale is a maybe, but i think i can get away with something in HO, at least I'm hoping.

 

Using Atlas RTS v8. I came up with a table I think might work? i still would have to lay track around, so I could make the donut hole bigger, but this was to get some dimensions in the software and start playing around. The decimals are off on this, as i just threw down the measurements to show what I'm thinking right now. can and probably will change, but if I go to change the benchwork, to make the holw bigger, i have to input the numbers in again, so instead of having to figure it out after it erases, that'll also help me to know where to start

 

https://imgur.com/a/0qDsRfG

Still not sure why the image function isn't working for me. I just get the little icon of a picture. not sure what i'm doing wrong.

 

 

EDIT

https://imgur.com/a/ur3LPiF

just something i threw together. not sure if it's good or not. can't make angles with the benchwork in the software, but i can make the hole bigger

[riogrande5761]

Wdodge0912

I'd love a garage layout,

Priorities man!

but then I have no room to park the car.

You make it sound like a bad thing.  I've almost never parked my car in a garage and it's been ok.  As it is wife and could fit at least one car in our two car garage, what with stuff in there, and we still both park outside.

I need a lot of room in there, for my eventual workshop for my boats.   N scale is a maybe, but i think i can get away with something in HO, at least I'm hoping.

Maybe you just "aren't there" yet.  A small circle of track with a few siding may become "meh" after a short time and if the model RR disease takes hold, and you want that Walthers steel mill, ahem ...

[rrinker]

 Picture insert requires the the to be referenced as some image file format, like .JPG. Imgur appears to only give a randomized page link to the page containing your picture. If might offer more choices to you as owner of the account.

You can get away with HO in that space, but it requires some decision making. There really isn't room for a lot of switching AND continuous run AND large modern locos and cars. Pick 2, basically.

The donut lan Byron posted could be adpated to fit, however, it wouldn;t be practical. As he mentioned, it was designed to be accessible from the outside as well as from within the donut hole. Without that outside access, there are turnouts and crossings that could be trouble spots that would be hard to get at trying to reach from the hole. You could eliminate some of the inside sidings to make the hole bigger, allowing reach to the other track, but now you've made it a lot more of just a round and round layout without many switching opportunities.

 My old 8x12 donut layout was like that one - 2 sides were agains walls, but the other two sides were eacily accessible, so along the sides against the walls, all track was within easy reach of the hole, on the other two sides, there was track on both sides , so some things you coudl do from in the hole, and others you had to be on the outside.

Another option if continuous run is the one of the three things you cna give up would be a U shaped switching layout. It doesn't take much benchwork width to have the main line and some industry spots on either side of it. On one leg, you could have a detachable staging yard to set up when running trains that can be easily unclipped and stored under the layout, or maybe put it on wheels so it can be wheels into the open area of the U when not in use. If really ambitious, two such removeable sections, one on each end. They don;t need to be attaced for just alittle switching around, but by attaching them, you have a place for trains to go to and come from off the layout. 

 But I like switching - if there were no other alternatives, either this or have no layout, I would be happy with something like that. Small though ti would be, the switching moves could keep you busy for hours. Especially if you include sidings facing both ways, and one train heads around the layout clockwise and only services trailing point turnouts, and then after that train finishes up, another comes around counter clockwise and handles all the opposite sidings as trailing point moves.

                                   --Randy