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Crazy Staging Yard Idea

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:07 PM

 THe traverser is probably the best solution. Takes the least space off the end of each yard track, only requires one track be kept free for the loco to move around, and saves all those turnouts at the end.

                                    --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:13 PM

corsiar

I am modeling modern era. All 6 axle diesels. Two diesels together is around 10" coupler to coupler. I will be running a big boy also the reason I am modeling Cheyenne. I do have two mains with the siding going to the staging yard that was going to be used for something else but plans changed. The first idea can hold 75" of train only after the run around and the loco pushes the consist againt the wall. For operating only have two industries. Frontier refinery and Voestalpine Nortrak. The double stacks, auto racks, coal cars, soda ash, and maybe a manifest will just run around the loops. Track plan was not thought out very well. Wish I could start over but all of the track is laid.

 

So this is N scale?

    

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:25 PM

I was just going to ask the same thing, 2 locos, 10" ?  Gotta be N scale.  I just assumed it was HO as he never really said.

Mike.

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Posted by corsiar on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:26 PM

It is N scale around 9' x 10'. I will be the only one operating. All the turnouts are manual.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:28 PM

Deane Johnson

Perhaps the most simple solution would be to hire the neighbor's kid during operating sessions to sit in there in the dark and just lift the engine to another track. 

LaughYesLaughYesLaughYes

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 2:42 PM

OK, now we know.  Are your going to have all the trains you mentioned on the layout at the same time?

I still see only one track is a complete loop, with out "holding" other trains, and working a lot of switches (turnouts) to keep any type of continous run with multiple trains.

Maybe your option #2 would be better, longer tracks, and you can enter the storage from either direction, as you probably don't have all your trains running in one direction.  Once again, I'm assuming. 

Mike.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 3:03 PM

So the idea of a wye feeding a dead end staging yard without all those escape turnouts would not only store more, longer trains, it would provide for operation in both directions and allow whole trains to be turned.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 4:15 PM

With all manual turnouts, you're going to spend a lot of time walking around and flipping them, plus, I assume, manually uncoupling engines from trains.

Get one of those FitBit things so when people call you a lazy model railroader, you can show them how many steps you're taking every day.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by corsiar on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 4:20 PM

Like this?

 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 4:42 PM

corsiar

Like this?

 

 

Yes, exactly. Trains pull out, trains pull in. Trains get turned and back in prior to the operating session, or during.

Trains enter or leave in either direction.

No escape tracks, no uncoupling, no lifting locos, no excess turnouts, just a double sided ladder at the wye end like you had before.

What's not to like?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 4:46 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
What's not to like?

Backup moves.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:10 PM

to follow up on the parallelogram ladder, it makes the track more equal length.  given the guessimated dimensions and assuming #4 turnouts and 2" spacing, the shortest track is ~79". N gauge might allow tighter spacing

but i like rich's suggestion about using a reflected Y to get to a center escape track.  (the wye turnout can't be the same frog # as the other turnouts)

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:25 PM

richhotrain

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
What's not to like?

 

Backup moves.

 

Rich

 

Well, only the OP can decide if that's a problem for him, but it has never been a problem for me. And I know more than few other modelers who have staging yards they back whole trains into.

And again, you stage all your trains to pull out in advance, and you do the back up moves to restage them after the operating session.

To me it beats handling equipment or wasting space on a scheme that allows a bunch of switching.

Rich, are you not building a stub end passenger terminal? Is that where you bad experiance comes from? RTR passenger cars with crappy coupler set ups?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:49 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Rich, are you not building a stub end passenger terminal? Is that where you bad experience comes from? RTR passenger cars with crappy coupler set ups?

Well, let me answer your question this way. Yes, I am building a stub end passenger terminal. I am modeling Dearborn Station in downtown Chicago. Following prototype practice, I pull arriving trains forward into the station. Switchers then pull the passenger car consists out of the station and into the stub end coach yard. Head end power then backs out of the station and into the engine servicing facility. The process is then reversed with the switchers pushing the passenger car consist into the station and the head end power then backs into the station and couples with the passenger car consist, ready for departure. So, there are some back up moves, but never with head end power, only lighter switchers.

I have traditionally experienced occasional derailment problems with backing up trains, especially those with 85' passenger cars. And, yes, a lot of the problems are associated with RTR couplers. Actually, I replace all factory mounted couplers with a variety of Kadee couplers, both medium and long center set shank, and I install whisker couplers in most instances. But I usually retain the factory installed coupler boxes.

To me, the laws of physics frown upon backing up trains, particularly through turnouts and yard ladders. The back up moves need to be slow, and it would help to use #8 turnouts, although for space saving purposes, I always use #6 turnouts.

My golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by corsiar on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:56 PM

Even with the wye wouldnt I still have to back the trains in?

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 5:58 PM

richhotrain
My golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible.

Hi Rich,

You wouldn't want to model the Go Train service coming out of Toronto. All of the northbound trains have the locomotives pushing from the back of the train all the way to their final destinations. They have special cars with control cabs that go on the leading end of the trains. They have had derailments but as far as I know, none were a direct result of the trains being pushed.

Dave

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:07 PM

richhotrain

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Rich, are you not building a stub end passenger terminal? Is that where you bad experience comes from? RTR passenger cars with crappy coupler set ups?

 

Well, let me answer your question this way. Yes, I am building a stub end passenger terminal. I am modeling Dearborn Station in downtown Chicago. Following prototype practice, I pull arriving trains forward into the station. Switchers then pull the passenger car consists out of the station and into the stub end coach yard. Head end power then backs out of the station and into the engine servicing facility. The process is then reversed with the switchers pushing the passenger car consist into the station and the head end power then backs into the station and couples with the passenger car consist, ready for departure. So, there are some back up moves, but never with head end power, only lighter switchers.

 

I have traditionally experienced occasional derailment problems with backing up trains, especially those with 85' passenger cars. And, yes, a lot of the problems are associated with RTR couplers. Actually, I replace all factory mounted couplers with a variety of Kadee couplers, both medium and long center set shank, and I install whisker couplers in most instances. But I usually retain the factory installed coupler boxes.

To me, the laws of physics frown upon backing up trains, particularly through turnouts and yard ladders. The back up moves need to be slow, and it would help to use #8 turnouts, although for space saving purposes, I always use #6 turnouts.

My golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible.

Rich

 

OK, fair enough, but my experiances are much different.

Most of my passenger cars are Athearn or ConCor cars I converted to body mounts and American Limited diaphragms. Even other brands of cars are generally converted to my coupler and diaphragm standard which results in diaphragms that touch, and stay touching, and couplers with enough swing, but not too much. My smallest curve in passenger territory is 36" radius.

When I back them up, the American Limited diaphragms actually help push, taking much of the side stress off the wider swing desired with passenger coupler set ups.

My passenger terminal turnouts are #6 Atlas Custom Line. It was/will be a thru terminal, but there was/will be switching and making up trains.

As for freight cars, proper weight standards, and good trucks are key.

As I have explained before I install Intermountain metal wheel sets in Kadee sprung metal trucks on most of my freight cars. The equalization of a sprung truck means better tracking - forward or reverse.

As I was dismantling the lower level of the old layout, I was left with about a 120' run on the upper level that was point to point. I ran 40 car trains forward and backward all the time on that 120' run, and can't hardly remember a derailment - that same trackage I posted pictures of in thread about lazer straight track.........

As for the OP, 5' of N scale equipment thru a wye and a few turnouts on one yard ladder, than 5' of track with no turnouts? I don't see any problem with good trackwork.

But, I will admit I have zero practical experiance with N scale....... 

Sheldon 

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:18 PM

corsiar

Even with the wye wouldnt I still have to back the trains in?

 

Yes, at times. But if you set up the trains to come out, then just pull them back it, you would later back them out, around the wye, then back them in the other leg of the wye and set them up for the next operating session.

And the wye would let you change the direction of whole trains or just locos at any time.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:20 PM

hon30critter

 

 
richhotrain
My golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible.

 

Hi Rich,

You wouldn't want to model the Go Train service coming out of Toronto. All of the northbound trains have the locomotives pushing from the back of the train all the way to their final destinations. They have special cars with control cabs that go on the leading end of the trains. They have had derailments but as far as I know, none were a direct result of the trains being pushed.

Dave

 

We have the same kind of commuter service here in the Baltimore area.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by corsiar on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:25 PM

With a parallel ladder and the smallest PECO code 55 turnout this is as much as I can squeeze in. The ladder lengths would be 56", 53", 51" and 55".

 

500

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:33 PM

corsiar

With a parallel ladder and the smallest PECO code 55 turnout this is as much as I can squeeze in. The ladder lengths would be 56", 53", 51" and 55".

 

500

 

Eliminate the ladder at the dead end, make all your tracks longer. You don't need the run around?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:33 PM

richhotrain

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
What's not to like?

 

Backup moves.

 

Rich

 

 But only for restaging for the next session. If the trackwork is done well, the trains should be just as reliable running in reverse. 

                               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:35 PM

Go back to the first drawing you posted with the wye and the single track. Branch off that track on both sides with tracks tha go all the way to end and stop.

You will get more and longer tracks.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:40 PM

richhotrain
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Rich, are you not building a stub end passenger terminal? Is that where you bad experience comes from? RTR passenger cars with crappy coupler set ups?

Well, let me answer your question this way. Yes, I am building a stub end passenger terminal. I am modeling Dearborn Station in downtown Chicago. Following prototype practice, I pull arriving trains forward into the station. Switchers then pull the passenger car consists out of the station and into the stub end coach yard. Head end power then backs out of the station and into the engine servicing facility. The process is then reversed with the switchers pushing the passenger car consist into the station and the head end power then backs into the station and couples with the passenger car consist, ready for departure. So, there are some back up moves, but never with head end power, only lighter switchers.

 

I have traditionally experienced occasional derailment problems with backing up trains, especially those with 85' passenger cars. And, yes, a lot of the problems are associated with RTR couplers. Actually, I replace all factory mounted couplers with a variety of Kadee couplers, both medium and long center set shank, and I install whisker couplers in most instances. But I usually retain the factory installed coupler boxes.

To me, the laws of physics frown upon backing up trains, particularly through turnouts and yard ladders. The back up moves need to be slow, and it would help to use #8 turnouts, although for space saving purposes, I always use #6 turnouts.

My golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible.

Rich

Hey Rich-

I understand your operations, and I share your concerns involving pushing trains; and double concerns involving long trains. I don't like to back trains, and I only do so when absolutely necessary.

My passenger trains are more-or-less unit trains that have cars arranged in a particular order: baggage cars and RPO up front; coaches, sleepers, and diners in the middle; observation cars near the back; and special club cars with lighted drumheads at the tail. Sheldon mentioned something like this early on. Backing these trains in or out is preferable (and actually the only way) despite the hardships and extra slow speeds.

Robert 

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Posted by corsiar on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:45 PM

The two main lines are connected on the left side of the overall layout. They got hidden and I didnt notice them. The crossover on top. The staging yard is connected to a siding I guess. The AD track comes off the inside main ten goes to the classification yard.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 6:59 PM

corsiar

The two main lines are connected on the left side of the overall layout. They got hidden and I didnt notice them. The crossover on top. The staging yard is connected to a siding I guess. The AD track comes off the inside main ten goes to the classification yard.

 

I'm not sure I understand. Do those tracks on the right side ofthe drawing connect to each other?

If so, OK, the staging wye is on the passing siding but that track could just as easily be the main and the siding be in the middle. Real railroads do stuff like that.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by corsiar on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 7:12 PM

I see what you are saying. 

Maybe I got it right this time. So a train would pull in to the yard from the left or right. The locomotives would just stay trapped while another set of locomotives couples to the other end to pull it back out on the main?

 

I like the wye then I can turn 4014 and 844 around

 

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Posted by John-NYBW on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 8:02 PM

jim57

Your closet staging yard is a very creative use of space,  However, I see some issues with the staging yard and the multiple run-arounds:  they eat up storage space and the adjacent track must be clear to provide a return path for the arriving loco.

One option would be to dedicate only one staging lead as the arrival track, which would also save cost of multiple turnouts and increase available storage space considerably.

Perhaps a more efficient option would be an arrival track (siding) before the yard ladder, so there is no need to have 2 of six tracks in the yard clear.

jim57

 

I would use a diamond shaped ladder yard so all tracks are the same length. The original idea would only allow locos to escape on an adjacent track. A diamond yard would allow the loco to escape to the runaround track from any of the staging tracks. 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 8:22 PM

corsiar

I see what you are saying. 

Maybe I got it right this time. So a train would pull in to the yard from the left or right. The locomotives would just stay trapped while another set of locomotives couples to the other end to pull it back out on the main?

 

I like the wye then I can turn 4014 and 844 around

 

 

Yes, exactly!

But why not just back the train out of the yard to turn it around? And then back it in the other side of the wye to set up staging for the next run. It will work, trains do back up without issues with good trackwork.

In other words, pull the train past the wye on the main, then back into wye to the staging. Not necessarily during an opps session, but as a set up procedure.

But the separate loco thing works too.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by mbinsewi on Tuesday, February 11, 2020 8:38 PM

I like that version of the storage tracks.  The Y gives access to each direction, and the storage tracks are longer.

I work in HO scale, and I don't have any problems backing up trains.  I don't how well that works in N.

I would think with good track work, and rolling stock in good condition, and being the proper weight, it should be fine.

And, everything is out in the open and easy to get to, just in case!

Mike.

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