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New layout

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Posted by Motley on Monday, October 14, 2019 10:55 AM

Doughless

Nice progress.  .Now you'll be able to see the trackplan come into reality, and will probably make adjustments once you start laying things out.

 

 
Thanks Douglas. Right now I'm working on getting all the foam down.
 
And I need to order all the backdrops. Ouch thats gonna be around $1000 for 5 10 ft backdrops.
 
Yes indeed my other layout I know had a lot of changes when laying track. The only thing I'm concerened about is the yard tracks, and I'll have to use some curved switches on both ends. Probably end up doing the yard section last.

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Monday, October 14, 2019 12:22 PM

Nice to see some progress on your layout. I too can’t wait to see you get some trains running. I really love these threads on people’s layouts! See people make progress is really cool!

Regards, Isaac

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, October 14, 2019 2:21 PM

Motley

 

 
Doughless

Nice progress.  .Now you'll be able to see the trackplan come into reality, and will probably make adjustments once you start laying things out.

 

 

 
Thanks Douglas. Right now I'm working on getting all the foam down.
 
And I need to order all the backdrops. Ouch thats gonna be around $1000 for 5 10 ft backdrops.
 
Yes indeed my other layout I know had a lot of changes when laying track. The only thing I'm concerened about is the yard tracks, and I'll have to use some curved switches on both ends. Probably end up doing the yard section last.
 

Michael, seek out others advice, but you might want to do the yard first, not last.

I always think its best to start with the most congested area of turnouts, then work out from there.  Simply adjusting the angles a little bit can have some dramatic changes into what will fit and what wont.  I think yard tracks look best when they are perfectly parallel for a long length, so I would probably start with that.  Otherwise, you might be forced to fit them in after other things are laid and it might not look right.  JMO.

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, October 20, 2019 4:24 PM

I got all the foam installed. I'm starting to lay out the track. Going to start with the right side where Coors will be.

This is very exciting!

This is where Coors will be

This is the top side where the mountain scene will be.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:52 PM

I have been working on laying out the track and see how things will fit.

I started with Coors on the right side. I will only have room for two tracks there (trackplan had 3). I am using the Walthers Superior Paper kit (already have kit and currently building it) for the main building. and its 20" x 12" size. Using the ADM grain elevator kit 10" x 13", and the modern warehouse kit which is 20" x 12". I know that is a lot of big buildings, but I have to because its Coors!

This is the upper right corner where the coal mine will be.

I will be ordering the photo backdrops tomorrow. I cant glue any track down until I install the backdrops.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Friday, November 8, 2019 6:01 PM

Well I've been in a holding pattern. I can't install any track until I get the photo backdrops. Here it is Friday and its been two weeks since I ordered them. Hopefully I get them by Monday, I'm really itchin to lay track and run trains.

I laid out all the track for Coors, Mountains, and left side where the power plant will be. I thought I could make room for the Oil Refinery, but I can't make it work. Only have like 10" of space between the backdrop and mainline. So I will go with the Frac Sand facilty (I already have the kit).

In the meantime, I've been building structures. Almost finished with the first Coors building. And doing a lot of shopping. I finally found some D&RGW equipement! Got some BLI SD9s coming in the mail.

Michael


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Posted by SPSOT fan on Saturday, November 9, 2019 2:20 AM

Nice to see the track plan starting to come together, even if the track can’t quite be laid yet!

It’s good to hear that you able to get some of those structures built while waiting to lay track! That will save you from having a bunch of sidings without indust once the track is laid!

Regards, Isaac

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, November 9, 2019 10:52 AM

SPSOT fan

Nice to see the track plan starting to come together, even if the track can’t quite be laid yet!

It’s good to hear that you able to get some of those structures built while waiting to lay track! That will save you from having a bunch of sidings without indust once the track is laid!

 

 
Thanks! Ya building the structures is fun. And shopping for equipment and structures is fun too. I also have the 3 Power Plant structers completed.
 
So far equipment I have aquired is: BLI S4 4-8-4 GN, D&RGW SD9, UP 1943 SD70Ace. Passenger cars, and some rolling stock too.
 
Next week I will be ordering BLI E7 A/B PENN & Penn passsenger cars!!

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 4:07 PM

Update on the backdrops. I still don't have them. Its been over 3 weeks now. Damn. I called Backdrop warehouse, and they are behind. Apparantly when I placed my order, they recieved a lot of other orders at the same time. Just my luck.

They told me my order was being printed now, and will ship on Wednesday. So I should have it by Friday.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Monday, December 9, 2019 5:50 PM

Finally have an update. As you guys know I waited more than 4 weeks for the backdrops, and now the city backdrop is being returned. Ordered another backdrop from Railroadbackdrops.com.

So I am finally able to start laying track.

Michael


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Posted by thomas81z on Friday, December 13, 2019 6:26 PM

Motley

Finally have an update. As you guys know I waited more than 4 weeks for the backdrops, and now the city backdrop is being returned. Ordered another backdrop from Railroadbackdrops.com.

So I am finally able to start laying track.

 

just wow with the rockies for your background ,so roster wise what are you modeling transition or mordern era ?? 80 to present ??

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 13, 2019 6:41 PM

thomas81z

 Motley

Finally have an update. As you guys know I waited more than 4 weeks for the backdrops, and now the city backdrop is being returned. Ordered another backdrop from Railroadbackdrops.com.

So I am finally able to start laying track.

 

 

  just wow with the rockies for your background ,so roster wise what are you modeling transition or mordern era ?? 80 to present ??

  

I am modeling modern era, but I have never owned any 1950s era trains before, so I will swap them out from time to time. Duel era.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Thursday, December 19, 2019 12:20 PM

Got the new Denver downtown backdrop installed. And steadily making progress on the trackwork.

Michael


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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, December 19, 2019 12:33 PM

The mountains look good.  I intially thought the eye level of the was too high but the more I think of it, the more I like that is at the height of the smaller buildings.

I am interested in how you work the scenery next to it, because the lack of foreground in the city scene seems odd to me, but I previously admitted a lack of knowledge in working with photo backgrounds.  So don't take it as a criticism.

Henry

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:43 PM

Wow... you sure are making progress.

.

Way to go.

.

-Kevin

.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, December 20, 2019 11:25 AM

Michael,

Your progress is great and the backdrops look very nice. I may have to consider that for some areas of my new layout.

I have a question, please forgive if this has already been explained. I struggle to understand the attraction to foam board, so my question is this.

I see you are laying cork right on the foam and it appears most trackage will be level at that elevation. So what is the advantage of the foam? What purpose does it serve different from plywood or homasote?

I see it looks like you have osb board under the foam, cost and effort it seems to me homasote or simply better plywood would do the same job?

Just trying to understand?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 12:57 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Michael,

Your progress is great and the backdrops look very nice. I may have to consider that for some areas of my new layout.

I have a question, please forgive if this has already been explained. I struggle to understand the attraction to foam board, so my question is this.

I see you are laying cork right on the foam and it appears most trackage will be level at that elevation. So what is the advantage of the foam? What purpose does it serve different from plywood or homasote?

I see it looks like you have osb board under the foam, cost and effort it seems to me homasote or simply better plywood would do the same job?

Just trying to understand?

Sheldon

 

Hello Sheldon thanks for your comments. The advantages of using foam is, you can dig down into the foam to make rivers and ditches, overall just to make the landscape look hilly.

I am using OSB because its cheaper and easier to work with cutting. and provides a flatter surface than plywood.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 1:05 PM

BigDaddy

The mountains look good.  I intially thought the eye level of the was too high but the more I think of it, the more I like that is at the height of the smaller buildings.

I am interested in how you work the scenery next to it, because the lack of foreground in the city scene seems odd to me, but I previously admitted a lack of knowledge in working with photo backgrounds.  So don't take it as a criticism.

 

 
I see what you are saying about the eye level with the city buildings. But most of the city backdrops are like that with little foreground.
 
I am confident it will look good after I get the passenger station, yard facilities in that location which should cover some of that. I can also add a line of trees in there.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 1:13 PM

SeeYou190

Wow... you sure are making progress.

.

Way to go.

.

-Kevin

 

 
Thanks Kevin I appreciate the feedback. My goal was to get trains running by Christmas, and I might not have the mainline loop finished, but will be able to run trains back and forth on the mountain scene.

Michael


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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, December 20, 2019 3:52 PM

Motley
The advantages of using foam is, you can dig down into the foam to make rivers and ditches, overall just to make the landscape look hilly.

It's one way of doing it.  Another way is to support the subroadbed on risers high enough the benchwork that there is ample room for the landscape to fall below or rise above the RR grade.  That way you don't have to carve away possible half or more of the foam to get the morphology of the land scape, potentially throwing away a lot of paid for foam.

Like Sheldon, I have never understood the attraction to foam.  It won't hold spike and you have to carve and throw away a good deal of material you paid for to get land scape.  With old school subroadbed on risers, you throw almost nothing away, and only build landscape that is needed using wire mesh or cardboard strip (free) and a bit of hot glue.  Over that you can use plaster cloth or paper machet or whatever.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, December 20, 2019 4:31 PM

riogrande5761

 

 
Motley
The advantages of using foam is, you can dig down into the foam to make rivers and ditches, overall just to make the landscape look hilly.

 

It's one way of doing it.  Another way is to support the subroadbed on risers high enough the benchwork that there is ample room for the landscape to fall below or rise above the RR grade.  That way you don't have to carve away possible half or more of the foam to get the morphology of the land scape, potentially throwing away a lot of paid for foam.

Like Sheldon, I have never understood the attraction to foam.  It won't hold spike and you have to carve and throw away a good deal of material you paid for to get land scape.  With old school subroadbed on risers, you throw almost nothing away, and only build landscape that is needed using wire mesh or cardboard strip (free) and a bit of hot glue.  Over that you can use plaster cloth or paper machet or whatever.

 

Yes, I have always used open grid methods similar to riogrande's picture.

In fact I still tend to be a "hard shell" or plaster on wire screen kind of guy....

Sheldon  

    

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 6:17 PM

riogrande5761

 Motley

The advantages of using foam is, you can dig down into the foam to make rivers and ditches, overall just to make the landscape look hilly.

 

It's one way of doing it.  Another way is to support the subroadbed on risers high enough the benchwork that there is ample room for the landscape to fall below or rise above the RR grade.  That way you don't have to carve away possible half or more of the foam to get the morphology of the land scape, potentially throwing away a lot of paid for foam.

Like Sheldon, I have never understood the attraction to foam.  It won't hold spike and you have to carve and throw away a good deal of material you paid for to get land scape.  With old school subroadbed on risers, you throw almost nothing away, and only build landscape that is needed using wire mesh or cardboard strip (free) and a bit of hot glue.  Over that you can use plaster cloth or paper machet or whatever.

 

That looks great and all. But sure seems like a lot of work just to make hills, I have no experience doing stuff like that, and frankly scares me a bit. I need easy solutions. This includes benchwork, which I am not very good with either.

With foam it is very easy to carve out, and build it up for mountains. You can put the plaster over the foam.

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, December 20, 2019 6:35 PM

Michael, you're not doing any grade changes or crossovers.  Foam is fine for scenery on a flat grade like you're doing.  Carve out a little gully here, build up some hills around it.  No need to do much else on a shelf layout where you're not planning a lot of verticality.  You've also planned for large buildings on each of the 4 sides, which require a big flat footprint.

- Douglas

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, December 20, 2019 6:55 PM

Doughless

Michael, you're not doing any grade changes or crossovers.  Foam is fine for scenery on a flat grade like you're doing.  Carve out a little gully here, build up some hills around it.  No need to do much else on a shelf layout where you're not planning a lot of verticality.  You've also planned for large buildings on each of the 4 sides, which require a big flat footprint.

 

I was not suggesting there is anything wrong with that approach. I use my share of flat areas for structures, urban areas, industries, etc.

And previously I built a multi deck layout and keeping benchwork thin was important, even on the lower level which had a staging level below that.

On that layout I simply padded the roadbed up some so that gently rolling terrain could be built on top the plywood base.

My primary dislike for foam comes from the fact that I am use to climbing/supporting myself on the benchwork........my weight will dent foam.......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, December 20, 2019 7:49 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
Doughless

Michael, you're not doing any grade changes or crossovers.  Foam is fine for scenery on a flat grade like you're doing.  Carve out a little gully here, build up some hills around it.  No need to do much else on a shelf layout where you're not planning a lot of verticality.  You've also planned for large buildings on each of the 4 sides, which require a big flat footprint.

 

 

 

I was not suggesting there is anything wrong with that approach. I use my share of flat areas for structures, urban areas, industries, etc.

And previously I built a multi deck layout and keeping benchwork thin was important, even on the lower level which had a staging level below that.

On that layout I simply padded the roadbed up some so that gently rolling terrain could be built on top the plywood base.

My primary dislike for foam comes from the fact that I am use to climbing/supporting myself on the benchwork........my weight will dent foam.......

Sheldon

 

I understand that neither you or anybody else was criticizing. 

I stepped in because I have a vision that Michael's layout is going to look a lot like his last one scenically.  It photographed very well, IMO.  I just wanted to illustrate the differences in scenick approaches between very open western terrain and others with narrower ROWs.  More vistas rather than trains snaking through mountains and valleys.  Rivers were the gulley type tributaries that are seen in drier parts, not so much gorges and stuff.  

The foam lends itself to those more shallow carvings.  I think RioGrande's layout was more vertical with fewer industries, so the traditional approach would work better than flat foam, IMO.

I think if somebody is looking at it from strictly building hills, stacking up foam pieces works as well as traditional hardshell and its matter of preference,  or why bother to learn something different for real no gain.

- Douglas

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 8:22 PM

Douglas, you know exactly my vision for the layout.

What I plan on doing is using the foam hills to seperate the two mainline tracks.

I was thinking about adding a tunnel. But I don't have enough room there because I want to make a river scene. For the river the foam is only 1.5", and I want to make the river about 6-8" deep. I can cut out a small section for that.

 

 

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, December 20, 2019 8:50 PM

Motley

Douglas, you know exactly my vision for the layout.

What I plan on doing is using the foam hills to seperate the two mainline tracks.

I was thinking about adding a tunnel. But I don't have enough room there because I want to make a river scene. For the river the foam is only 1.5", and I want to make the river about 6-8" deep. I can cut out a small section for that.

 

 

 

That's how I'm approaching my under track scenery.  Except I'm building a small section that's below the prevailing sections ahead of time instead of cutting it out later.  The small section will be 48 inches high off the floor while the rest of the layout will be 52 inches high.

- Douglas

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, December 22, 2019 9:51 AM

Doughless

 Motley

Douglas, you know exactly my vision for the layout.

What I plan on doing is using the foam hills to seperate the two mainline tracks.

I was thinking about adding a tunnel. But I don't have enough room there because I want to make a river scene. For the river the foam is only 1.5", and I want to make the river about 6-8" deep. I can cut out a small section for that.

 

That's how I'm approaching my under track scenery.  Except I'm building a small section that's below the prevailing sections ahead of time instead of cutting it out later.  The small section will be 48 inches high off the floor while the rest of the layout will be 52 inches high.

 

Douglas do you have a build thread? I'd sure like to see some photos of your new layout!

Michael


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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, December 22, 2019 11:25 AM

 I throw away nothing - I still have a box full of small foam chunks. The bits you carve out for below track level scenery, you glue back on to form the bits that go above track level.

 As for spike holding - I last used spikes on a layout more than 20 years ago (ok, there was a long time in there I had NO layout...). The last two used adhesive caulk, and the next one will too. The ability of the base material to hold spikes is a non issue. In fact, the ability of the foam to take a push pin to hold track in place while the caulk set up was actually a benefit. They push in easily and they do hold with plenty of force to keep the track in place. If I used plywood, I would have to use the soup can express to hold the track in place. Push pins are quicker and I don't have to raid the pantry to weight things down.

 I may use less foam base this time, but not through any dissatisfaction with how it worked on the last two layouts. I will be using a lot for the scenery, cutting and stacking it  and then carving. 

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, December 22, 2019 12:07 PM

Motley

 

 
Doughless

 Motley

Douglas, you know exactly my vision for the layout.

What I plan on doing is using the foam hills to seperate the two mainline tracks.

I was thinking about adding a tunnel. But I don't have enough room there because I want to make a river scene. For the river the foam is only 1.5", and I want to make the river about 6-8" deep. I can cut out a small section for that.

 

That's how I'm approaching my under track scenery.  Except I'm building a small section that's below the prevailing sections ahead of time instead of cutting it out later.  The small section will be 48 inches high off the floor while the rest of the layout will be 52 inches high.

 

 

 

Douglas do you have a build thread? I'd sure like to see some photos of your new layout!

 

Thanks for the comment.  I don't have a photo hosting site yet, so that is a hurdle.  I'm slow, so that's another. And I've gotten distacted by doing some actual modeling like weathering trains.

I've thought about taking some photos at significant portions of the build.  Currently I've built the sky blue backdrop and the benchwork, just have to attach the plywood table top and trim out everything to give it a finished look. 

Nothing exciting about how I built a generic table top, so the finished benchwork with the plain sky blue backdrop might be the first photo. 

- Douglas

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