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New layout

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Friday, August 16, 2019 4:52 PM

You might be able to fashion a gate or liftout to open up your layout to the access hole, which would eliminate the need to duck. The reason I propose this is because I think you should stick with your first plan. It looks more unsymetrical, seems to have more operation potential, and just overall appears more realistic and prototypical.

Just my My 2 Cents. Its your layout, after all.

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Friday, August 16, 2019 6:33 PM

 I suggest you think long and hard about the duck under. I can tell you from first hand experence they get old really fast..

As to the plans; I really like shelf types, so the 2nd one gets my vote,for whatever thats worth

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, August 16, 2019 7:10 PM

UNCLEBUTCH
I suggest you think long and hard about the duck under. I can tell you from first hand experence they get old really fast.

.

I will second this.

.

I had a duckunder in the "Spare Bedroom" layout when first built, and it came out a few months later.

.

-Kevin

.

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, August 16, 2019 8:36 PM

The solution to a duck under is a well constructed lift out or lift up. My new layout will have one to enter the layout area, and one to go from the layout area to the workshop area.

Those nimble enough can duck, those not so nimble can lift up and walk thru, they will not need to be traversed to operate the layout.

My new layout plan does not have any space wasting turnback loops against walls (the curves will be big, such a loop would require an 8' x 8' space), and as you view the layout, West is always to your left, East is always to your right. The layout will go along the walls, all the way around the room, with two peninsulas out into the room.

So, since the stairs do not come down in the center of the room, you will have to "get inside" the layout to enter the room. A situation I have no trouble with.

There are no reverse loops on the layout, but you can turn a whole train - there will be a wye on the mainline which feeds a 20' long staging yard.

Sheldon  

    

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Posted by Motley on Friday, August 16, 2019 10:49 PM

Thanks, I appreciate all the feedback on this. I believe I can deal with the entrance duckunder as I am a small guy.

My other layout at the other house was just horrible, access holes everywhere.

The reason I reduced some of those operating industries, turntable, etc. is I prefer seeing long trains running through mountain scenery. I can just manually switch trains out with 5 finger.

I also plan on building a table in the middle for dcc system, program track, and storage for trains.

This is the benchwork I have now, so just need to cut part of this out.

Michael


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Posted by selector on Saturday, August 17, 2019 8:56 AM

You can still have a duck-under and not get a skinned back.  The idea is to sit on a computer desk, or some other rolling, chair/stool, and use that to scooch under the benchwork.  Stand up on the other side, or raise what you're sitting on for a better view.

Aside from that (and I have had either a duck-under or a lift-out on all my four layouts to date), you have a fair whack of unused space.  I would find a way to at least have a 'turning eye' type peninsula running from left toward the centre of the room.  Otherwise, I really have decided that around-the-room layouts give me the most enjoyment and he longest runs...

...but only when they comprise a folded loop.  

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Posted by snjroy on Saturday, August 17, 2019 9:08 AM

Keep in mind that when you enter your layout, you often do so with something in your hands (e.g. that expensive and fragile steam engine...). A hinged liftout is a bit of a pain to build, but it really makes it much more easy to enter without damaging anything. Visitors will prefer a liftout for sure. We have a duck under at the club and it's a pain!

Simon

PS: I vote for plan 2. Nice and simple.

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Posted by jalajoie on Saturday, August 17, 2019 9:14 AM

Glad to see you are back.

 

Jack W.

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Posted by UNCLEBUTCH on Saturday, August 17, 2019 9:52 AM

snjroy
Keep in mind that when you enter your layout, you often do so with something in your hands (e.g. that expensive and fragile steam engine...). A

 That was the problem I had. Its one thing to just squat down andmove forward,try doing it with your hands. full. Then fast forward a coulpe of years and ask your body to do it.

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Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, August 17, 2019 2:05 PM
I like the first track plan more than the second one. That first track plan has a lot more visual interest. If you lay the turnouts carefully, you will have little need to use the access hole.
 
Did you give up on modeling the Coors brewery (I recall that from your earlier posts)? 
 
I drove by it years ago and it was pretty impressive, and would make an interesting and unusual scene.  
 
Good luck with your progress!

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, August 17, 2019 4:24 PM

Your are right mobileman, I should keep Coors brewery.

Ok Coors is back, and I also made a track for a coal flood loader, and moved the coal mine to the right corner.

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Posted by mobilman44 on Saturday, August 17, 2019 4:57 PM

What is that "house" in the center photo surrounded by the tankage.  Looks like a restaurant or "tasting room" or ???

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, August 18, 2019 2:00 PM

mobilman44

What is that "house" in the center photo surrounded by the tankage.  Looks like a restaurant or "tasting room" or ???

 

 
That is Coors Family Mansion. Rich scratch built it for me, but I don't have it any more. I had to get rid of some of my model railroading items.
 
I need to buy a new NCE DCC system, locomotives, and rolling stock.
 

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Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, August 18, 2019 3:00 PM

Sorry to hear you had to get rid of stuff.  Did that mansion and other stuff get "ebayed", or ?

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, August 18, 2019 3:32 PM

mobilman44

Sorry to hear you had to get rid of stuff.  Did that mansion and other stuff get "ebayed", or ?

 

 
I was throwing out some boxes and the mansioin was in there, had no idea (sorry Rich). Yes I sold the items on ebay, was broke as hell.

Michael


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, August 18, 2019 3:38 PM

Motley
mobilman44

What is that "house" in the center photo surrounded by the tankage.  Looks like a restaurant or "tasting room" or ???

 
That is Coors Family Mansion. Rich scratch built it for me, but I don't have it any more. I had to get rid of some of my model railroading items.
 
I need to buy a new NCE DCC system, locomotives, and rolling stock.

I guess for a lot of family businesses the owners live above the store, and it seems the Coors are no different.

Robert 

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by kasskaboose on Monday, August 19, 2019 1:21 PM

SeeYou190

 

UNCLEBUTCH
I suggest you think long and hard about the duck under. I can tell you from first hand experence they get old really fast.

 

.

I will second this.

.

I had a duckunder in the "Spare Bedroom" layout when first built, and it came out a few months later.

.

-Kevin

.

 

 

Cound me in for not using duck unders.  I had that one my 1st layout and it was annoying.  Thje 2nd one is more open without one. 

I like what you did with the foam cutout.  Do you still have enough reach? You want no more than 2' of a strech.  Doing that without a step stool is critical.

 
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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 3:08 PM

Ok here is the latest trackplan. I added a staging track, moved the coal mine next to the flood loader. And I made more room for Cheyenne Depot Station.

The longest reach will be 31" and I'm comfortable with that.

I cut out the big loop section on the benchwork. Here is what I got now. This is the upper right corner.

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:33 AM

Welcome back Michael!  Good to see that a new layout is on the way.

I remember the old plan.  Lots of popups at first that you reworked to make pretty functional, and you did western scenery very well, IMO. 

IIRC, you run big modern diesels and occaisionally some big steam.  And industries tend to be larger too, since they are made from modern kits.

I think your chosen plan is very good for the space, which is limited given your druthers.  You need broad radius curves, IMO, and a walk-in plan would simply not allow that in your given space. 

Given that its a duck under in a small space, I would want an area for a small workbench under the layout, so I wouldn't have to pop in and out of the layout just to do some quick work on equipment.  I would build the layout fairly high, about 54 inches, and place the bench under the layout's narrowest shelf, which is  on the left side. 

As another has mentioned, use of a rolling chair would be helpful, so I would want plenty of space in the middle like you have planed. I would refrain from adding any type of peninsula to the middle pit.

Looking forward to following your iterations and progress.  Thanks for sharing.   

Edit:  Just taking a quick look at the track arrangement, I think some of the angles you used for turnout frogs are pretty aggressive and unrealistic for #6 frogs.  You may have plenty of space to fit what you want where you have it, but I think some of the turnouts your drew would require more linear inches than what you have drawn.

- Douglas

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Posted by Pruitt on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 7:55 AM

Motley,

I can't see some of your graphics. They only show a grey circle with a white horizontal bar.

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 4:48 PM

Doughless

Welcome back Michael!  Good to see that a new layout is on the way.

I remember the old plan.  Lots of popups at first that you reworked to make pretty functional, and you did western scenery very well, IMO. 

IIRC, you run big modern diesels and occaisionally some big steam.  And industries tend to be larger too, since they are made from modern kits.

I think your chosen plan is very good for the space, which is limited given your druthers.  You need broad radius curves, IMO, and a walk-in plan would simply not allow that in your given space. 

Given that its a duck under in a small space, I would want an area for a small workbench under the layout, so I wouldn't have to pop in and out of the layout just to do some quick work on equipment.  I would build the layout fairly high, about 54 inches, and place the bench under the layout's narrowest shelf, which is  on the left side. 

As another has mentioned, use of a rolling chair would be helpful, so I would want plenty of space in the middle like you have planed. I would refrain from adding any type of peninsula to the middle pit.

Looking forward to following your iterations and progress.  Thanks for sharing.   

Edit:  Just taking a quick look at the track arrangement, I think some of the angles you used for turnout frogs are pretty aggressive and unrealistic for #6 frogs.  You may have plenty of space to fit what you want where you have it, but I think some of the turnouts your drew would require more linear inches than what you have drawn.

 

 
Thank you Douglas, I appreciate all the feedback. You pretty much nailed everything. I like mountain scenery and seeing long freight and passenger trains. I wish I had more room for Coor, as they have their own switcher. It will be fun to do a little Coors switching.
 
Once I get to laying the track I can figure out the #6 switch arrangement. I can put #5's on the two industries. btw I will be using Peco and their under track selonoids. (same as my old layout).
 
I've learned a lot from my old layout. Had very bad benchwork which lead to not so level track, popup access holes, and too many areas where I was too far from the trains.
 
I will use the storage table in the middle for working on locos. And I will build some shelves under the benchwork to store enitre trains and switch them out.
 
I'm just happy that I am financially able to have a layout again. Very excited to build this layout!

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 4:56 PM

Pruitt

Motley,

I can't see some of your graphics. They only show a grey circle with a white horizontal bar.

 

 
Hmm not sure, maybe try a different browser like Chrome. Thats what I use.

Michael


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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 5:14 PM

Motley

 

 
Pruitt

Motley,

I can't see some of your graphics. They only show a grey circle with a white horizontal bar.

 

 

 
Hmm not sure, maybe try a different browser like Chrome. Thats what I use.
 

 

I'm using chrome and I have the exact same problem...

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 6:57 PM

BNSF UP and others modeler

 damn, I'm using Google photos. I just changed some setttings. Let me know if you see this pic.

 
Motley

 

 
Pruitt

Motley,

I can't see some of your graphics. They only show a grey circle with a white horizontal bar.

 

 

 
Hmm not sure, maybe try a different browser like Chrome. Thats what I use.
 

 

 

 

I'm using chrome and I have the exact same problem...

 

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Saturday, August 24, 2019 10:28 PM

Ok I've been working on the trackplan some more. I now have added a 130' turntable to Cheyenne Yard, just like the prototype.

I'll have to extend the benchwork a bit more for that section. Reach for this area will be 35" now. I'm just gonna have to deal with it.

Michael


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Posted by snjroy on Sunday, August 25, 2019 7:43 AM

Who doesn't like turntables Smile. What I missed in this thread is location of your walls... Are they all around the layout? If that is the case, then 35" is very wide. Maintenance and things like fixing switches and faulty wiring will be very difficult, especially if you intend to have a higher layout. Another minor point: i would add a few tracks around the turntable to store some locos.

Simon

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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, August 25, 2019 9:34 AM

I have to go along with guys on the duckunder!   My knees started to go in the early 50s by the 60s I had to wear knee pads, by the 70s getting down on my knees was a no no, at 82 it’s “I’ve fallen down and can’t get up”.
 
You never know what might happen down the road, a simple accident can make your life miserable, especially ones back and knees.  Aging isn’t good on the body, my grandson just slipped when he was 23 and now has pain when kneeling at 31.
 
It really isn’t that tough to make a lift out or fold up bridge, I built one that worked great when I was 14 without any help.
 
EDIT:
 
I can't see all your pictures either in either Chrome, Internet Explorer or Firefox.
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by Motley on Sunday, August 25, 2019 4:06 PM

The walls are on the outside. I've been doing some testing on my existing benchwork (I'm 5'9")  and I can reach 35" just fine and I can use a step stool if needed when working on track.

After I get the layout built and track down, I will see how comfortable I am. If needed I will install a lift up bridge.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Monday, August 26, 2019 8:02 AM

Yet another update on the trackplan. I am worried about uncoupling at Cheyenne Yard. So I moved the yard tracks closer to the inside edge. Removed one of the passenger station tracks. And reduced the benchwork to 33". Also I will be reducing the height by 2" with a new track heighth of 40".

I also moved the coal mine and flood loader. And now I have room for an Oil Refinery (which was in my original plan).

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, August 26, 2019 8:36 AM

Michael.  Adding the turntable adds depth to the benchwork, making the duckunder to the pit a longer travel for your head.

You probably visualize what the layout will look like, but try playing with flipping the deep scenes to the top of the plan and keep the shallower scenes near the duckunder.  

- Douglas

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Monday, August 26, 2019 8:56 AM

If you think you can comfortably reach over a span of 35", try ballasting track or solder a feeder wire over that distance. If you manage to do that in a satisfactory manner, than add scenery to it ...

I am 6´5" and although my reach extends over that span, I think it is sufficient to pick up a derailed car or engine, but not to do any serious modelling work.

Happy times!

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Posted by Motley on Monday, August 26, 2019 5:01 PM

When laying track, wiring, and ballasting I can just hop up on the benchwork, using an extra peice of foam to not damage the base foam.

I only weigh 145lbs. Thats what I did on my last layout, because I had some long reaches on there as well.

 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, August 26, 2019 6:07 PM

 Here's the thing - you're doing modern era, do you really need a turntable? Or maybe put it over by the door where you have it marked for a diesel house, if you want to say they kept the old turntable, why not keep the roundhouse as well, and that's the "diesel house". Then narrow that side and brong the yard tracks clooser, or push out the station tracks and expand the donut hole.

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Posted by Motley on Monday, August 26, 2019 8:18 PM

Randy, I wanted to add a turn table because I like to run steam excusions, UP 844 is my favorite!

Ok I think I've got it now. I moved the passenger station to the outside right corner. And was able to get all the yard tracks closer. Reduced the benchwork 2" and now will have a 32" reach to the passenger tracks.

What do you guys think now?

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:47 AM

I think you have a lot of big pieces trying to fit into a small space.  I'm wondering if you can't shed 1.

For design and space utilization efficiency, the big turntable should go into a foreground corner somewhere, with the main tracks wrapping around its backside.  The diesel house tracks should either come off of the turntable only, or originate very close to the turntable.

By comparison, your space usage is not maximized since you have very long approaches to the turntable and diesel house.  You are essentially using 15 ft of valuable straight trackage (where you could put two of your big structures, like maybe the depot) just to get to them.

I think it would make sense to try to get the flood loader along a wall somehow and the mine close to it but outside of the tracks in a corner.  The depot can go in the open space where the TT is now.  The brewery could be in a more congested setting like near the yard (eventhough the real coors brewery is probably more in the open). Maybe revers the tracks that are now accessing the depot and place the brewery along the wall, near the duckunder. (the tracks angle a bit there giving you more room for the structures)

And from an operational standpoint, the layout would probably function better if the crossovers between the mainlines occurred just before and after the yard, so the trains could enter the yard or depart the yard from the outer (or inner) mainline.

BTW:  are the bathroom and closet doors supposed to be accessible?

Edit:  Play with this.  Take the entire SE corner and try to group those curved tracks as close together as possible and push them into the corner as much as possible (you may have to compromise and use 32 inch radius).  Put the TT in the foreground corner, and reverse the depot access tracks so the turnout originates from the SE corner and heads to the duckunder.  This will be the new brewery spur.  (Do you really need three tracks for the brewery (a luxury you can't afford, IMO))

Angle the mainline and yard tracks from the SE corner to the front of the benchwork near the duckunder, creating room for the brewery to be placed along the wall.  I assume these buildings are narrow and can abutt the backdrop, saving valuable inches.

Place the depot in the front where the TT is now, and find a way to access the TT from near there.  You might be able to squeeze in the diesel house too. 

Try to keep all of the tracks on this shelf as straight and as close together as possible.

Leave the left side of the layout pretty much as is, except install a crossover.

The right side no longer has the brewery, so put the flood loader there, I say accessible from the outer track, and place the mine in the upper right corner (maybe angle the outer main to parallel the inner main to give you more space).

The entire backside is your open area with your bridge scene (that I remember you did very well last time)

Does this make sense?  The bottom shelf will be a tight fit, but I think its best to try to group some big pieces and a lot of straight track there. 

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, August 27, 2019 6:51 PM

irst of all thank you Dougles I appreciate all the help with the new plan. Damn I thought I had it.

Ok the turntable. Shouldn't it be close to the edge proximity for operating it. Not sure why you are suggesting put in a corner 32" away?

The reason why I left space open near the turntable and deisel house is so I can have a place to lean over to uncouple cars. When I lay the yard tracks I will get the straight with 2.5" center spacing.

Mainline crossover before and after the yard, I will add these, Im using free version of anyrail and I run out of track peices.

I want to keep Coors with 3 tracks, because I want to use the Coors switcher and real Coors has a yard with many tracks. Not sure I want it close to yard tracks is in Golden with surrounding mountains on all sides. The inside Coors track will also serve as staging track.

For the coal mine and flood loader. The upper left corner I want to build some rock cliffs and trees there.

The reason why I moved the Depot to the outside edge is reaching over the large building to the yard tracks will be difficult.

Ok I was able to move the turntable a bit and added another yard track. Added the spur for Aggregate Sand Transfer facilty.

If you want to draw your plan out for me I would like to see what you come up with.

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 7:26 AM

Motley

irst of all thank you Dougles I appreciate all the help with the new plan. Damn I thought I had it.

Ok the turntable. Shouldn't it be close to the edge proximity for operating it. Not sure why you are suggesting put in a corner 32" away?

The reason why I left space open near the turntable and deisel house is so I can have a place to lean over to uncouple cars. When I lay the yard tracks I will get the straight with 2.5" center spacing.

Mainline crossover before and after the yard, I will add these, Im using free version of anyrail and I run out of track peices.

I want to keep Coors with 3 tracks, because I want to use the Coors switcher and real Coors has a yard with many tracks. Not sure I want it close to yard tracks is in Golden with surrounding mountains on all sides. The inside Coors track will also serve as staging track.

For the coal mine and flood loader. The upper left corner I want to build some rock cliffs and trees there.

The reason why I moved the Depot to the outside edge is reaching over the large building to the yard tracks will be difficult.

Ok I was able to move the turntable a bit and added another yard track. Added the spur for Aggregate Sand Transfer facilty.

If you want to draw your plan out for me I would like to see what you come up with.

 

Yes, you have lots of big pieces who's prototypical setting places them in the middle of wide open Western USA spaces, even the Depot, IIRC.  That's difficult to do all of that in 15 x 12, but your vision and druthers is what matters, not mine.

But you misunderstood about the TT. The TT would be in the SE corner, close to the front edge, even right on the edge if you wanted.  The rest of the trackage would curve around its backside, between the TT and the backdrop.  The mainline trackage would be 32" from the edge....if that....not the TT, but some of those curves might have to be 32" radius.  (You could use Walthers #8 or even #7.5 curved turnouts to start buling the yard). The 32 inch radius really shouldn't be a problem for any of your equipment.  You'd have to relocate the Depot to make a little room for the mainlines, but you would have the space for the Depot where the TT is now.

Then angle the mainline and yard tracks from the SE corner, which would now be close to the backdrop, towards the front edge of the benchwork as you travel towards the duckunder. Or, you could leave them as is which would create some space between them and the new location of the Depot, if reaching over it is a big concern. (BTW, most uncoupling in yards is done at the ends, with the locomotives, not right in the middle where the Depot might be in the way)

I'm not trying to redraw your plan. As is noted, we don't really know your priorities and vision, so specific comments can become moot.

I'm merely looking at the big picture of space utilization and seeing places where it could be improved.

If you look at a lot of track plans, oftentimes the TT is located inside of a curve, not in the middle of a straight section, because placing it inside of a curve uses the benchwork space better.  But if that conflicts with your vision and priorities, I guess that wouldn't be an option.

If I were to redraw your plan from a clean slate, I would start by placing a perfectly-to-scale 38 inch radius curve in the SE corner as close to the backdrop as I could, and then a 36 inch radius curve immediately inside of that to give me my double mainline, then start building the yard off of those, angling all tracks away from the backdrop and towards the front edge as I moved towards the duckunder, keeping them as straight as possible and as close together as I could handle.

If the 38/36 radius curves did not fit, I would try 36/34.

Then the rest of the layout would flow off of that critical SE corner nest in both directions.

If the flood loader were in the NE, I don't think that would stop you from putting rock cliffs in the NW or NE corner somehow. 

Again, if your vision is set, then its hard to do this.

But often times as time passes, and you play with designs, your vision changes as you realize how each druther is competing for space.

BTW: as far as the brewery, if it was placed along the backdrop where is says "bathroom door", the yard trackage in front would give the appearence of the brewery plant tracks in Golden.  It could still be scenicked as wide open.  You might have to compromise and only have space for one or two spurs to actually park brewery railcars on them, but the entire rows of tracks would still look like the brewery complex if you took an isolated photo of just that scene.  All JMO.

Also, the prototype Depot likely has a few straight tracks, not curved tracks, either in front of it or behind it, or both.  Relocating the model to where the TT is now conveys that scene better than having it in the corner, where you have it now.  Again, JMO.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:55 AM

Doughless
Yes, you have lots of big pieces who's prototypical setting places them in the middle of wide open Western USA spaces, even the Depot, IIRC.  That's difficult to do all of that in 15 x 12, but your vision and druthers is what matters, not mine.

Thats often the dilemma isn't it.  We have chamgagne tasts and a light beer space budget!

Back when Motley was posting photo's of his previous layout, in apparently the same space, it did give the impression of more wide open spaces and photographed well.  Just those trains didn't have much room to stretch their legs. 

I know how that is.  My last layout was 10x18' and a 20-25 car train, same deal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb72oyv1Izs

 

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 8:59 AM

Wide open western spaces on a shelf layout.  Liberal use of high quality photo backdrops conveys that feeling, if not just simple pale blue walls, IMO.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 9:28 AM

Doughless

Wide open western spaces on a shelf layout.  Liberal use of high quality photo backdrops conveys that feeling, if not just simple pale blue walls, IMO.

 

For those like me with absolutely no artistry skills using paint brushes I bought a couple of cheapo blue sky with clouds backdrops and they look very good to me as well as our visitors.
 
 
 
Shipping was pretty fast from China and I think that $40 is a very good price for a 10’ x 8’ print.  They come folded up and the vinyl wrinkles disappeared after hanging them in the sun twice for 6 hours each.  The vinyl is thick enough that they don’t tare and the print quality is better than great.
 
20 minutes hanging them sure beats several days screwing up a wall with paint.  I cut them in half so I ended up with 40’ x 4’ very pretty cloud covered walls.
 
 
Mel
 
 
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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 3:31 PM

Ok well I am just going to go with my latest plan. I'm getting a bunch of woody pink things tomorrow. I kinda stopped on benchwork while I was finalizing my plan.

Hell.. you guys all know a layout is never finished. So if I don't like something it can always be changed, even after track and scenery is done.

Did I mentioned that I was so excited to build a new layout. 3 years is way too long without a hobby and broke.

 

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 4:35 PM

 It's been 6 years for me. Got a dumpster and some help for the long weekend to tear out the old walls and stuff, so finally starting!

                                 --Randy


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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:06 PM

Motley

Hell.. you guys all know a layout is never finished.

Yes, and that goes double for layouts that are never started.

You get credit for taking the plunge, and rest assured . . . you have a lot of support here.

Good luck.

Robert 

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, August 29, 2019 7:47 AM

Good luck Michael.  Please share your progress.

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Posted by jim81147 on Friday, August 30, 2019 8:46 PM

Motley

Your are right mobileman, I should keep Coors brewery.

Ok Coors is back, and I also made a track for a coal flood loader, and moved the coal mine to the right corner.

 

 

  Michael , isnt that coal loader on the Navajo reservation between Tuba city and Cayenta ?

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Posted by Motley on Friday, August 30, 2019 9:24 PM

 No sir, that is the Henderson Coal Mine in Empire, CO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henderson_molybdenum_mine

 

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, August 31, 2019 2:30 PM

 Thought that looked familiar. When I went through Rocky Mountain National Forest, I went in on the Estes Park side, and then came down 40 through Winter Park and Empire to get back.

                            --Randy

 


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Posted by Motley on Saturday, August 31, 2019 5:59 PM

rrinker

 Thought that looked familiar. When I went through Rocky Mountain National Forest, I went in on the Estes Park side, and then came down 40 through Winter Park and Empire to get back.

                            --Randy

  

Nice! Very beautiful area there, I was just in Estes Park like 2 weeks ago. The coal mining industry up there is booming now. I just hope they never do the blasting mountain top mining (which is horrible) like they do in the Apalacians.

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, August 31, 2019 6:07 PM

Look what just showed up at my house! I had to have Home Depot deliver it because I don't have a truck.

This is close to $450 worth of stuff sitting here. The foamboard is 1.5".

I ended up taking down the section of benchwork I already had, because I am changing the height and width of the benchwork.

I have everything I need now. I have Mon, Tue, and Wed off next week, so plenty of time to work on the benchwork!

Michael


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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Saturday, August 31, 2019 6:15 PM

Motley

Look what just showed up at my house! I had to have Home Depot deliver it because I don't have a truck.

This is close to $450 worth of stuff sitting here. The foamboard is 1.5".

I ended up taking down the section of benchwork I already had, because I am changing the height and width of the benchwork.

I have everything I need now. I have Mon, Tue, and Wed off next week, so plenty of time to work on the benchwork!

 

Yes Nice! Make sure to update us on progress!

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, September 4, 2019 10:30 PM

Well I made that pile of wood look like this. I got one 8 ft section completed. 4 more sections to go. Just kinda taking my time and make sure I do it right. Also this is a lot of hardwork and my arms feel like rubber. LOL

This is the top/right end where the mountain scene will be.

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Posted by Motley on Friday, September 6, 2019 1:59 AM

A change in plans. I decided I want to model Denver Union Station, instead of Cheyenne Depot. Since all of the other areas are in Colorado I might as well stick to that.

I pushed some of the yard tracks closer, and now the curve radius in the lower right will be around 33" or 34". I'll know when I start laying track.

The problem now is... how in the heck do I model the new Denver platform? I might have to ask CMR to see if they can custom build this platform.

I found this faller station platform, this might get close to the open style platforms. https://www.euromodeltrains.com/products/Faller/120193

Or maybe I can kitbash this faller train shed, and cut open the center?

https://www.euromodeltrains.com/products/Faller/120199

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, September 6, 2019 7:23 AM

 None of your newest pics seem to be showing up. The old ones are still there. Too much bandwidth use? 

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Posted by Motley on Friday, September 6, 2019 9:10 AM

rrinker

 None of your newest pics seem to be showing up. The old ones are still there. Too much bandwidth use? 

                              --Randy

 

 
Stupid Google photo's keep giving me issues. I stopped sharing them, and shared again. Can you see them now.

Michael


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Posted by rrinker on Friday, September 6, 2019 11:32 AM

 The Denver Union Station ones now do, but the ones in the post above which I presume are the benchwork you built with the stack of supplies still do not. That's two different browsers on two different networks now.

                                        --Randy


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Posted by Motley on Saturday, September 7, 2019 4:59 PM

Yet another update on the trackplan. I added a power plant so that I can have a destination for the coal. 

Moved the coal mine to the right. Oil Refinery is now in lower left. Frac Sand facilty is now in top left corner.

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 4:40 PM

Ok listen to this guys. I was thinking today. Theres another bedroom next to this. Its in the lower right corner, where the closet is. I'm not really using that bedroom, just have some boxes in there right now.

That bedroom is 9x12. I could poke a hole in the wall and run a track through there. It would be totally seperated from this layout room I have here. And I was thinking that since Walthers is releasing the new Steel Mill series, I could build a steel mill in that second bedroom.

My old layout I actually had plans to build a steel mill but never did. Did all kinds of research, I already have modeling steel mills guide.

So it would be like having two seperate layouts operational wise. But at least the possiblity for expansion is there.

 

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 9:08 PM

Ok this is what I came up with for a possilbe Steel Mill in the next room.

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Tuesday, September 10, 2019 10:50 PM

I think this separate layout idea is great, and it will give you something different to model once you finish the other layout. My one concern would be when you start building the layouts, one may get more attention than the other and the other may never get worked on. What I’m saying is you may work on just one layout, at least until it is operational, and then start on the next layout.

Regarding the track plan you’ve drawn up, the only big issue I see is a lack of a run around. Since you have both facing and trailing point switches you’ll need a runaround to deliver cars to all the industries. Also you will need to figure out what to do about staging cars, if you will run trains onto the steal layout directly from the main layout then that’s not a huge issue, but if you want this to be an independent layout you’ll need to have an interchange track capable of holding all the cars from the various industries on the layout.

Regards, Isaac

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 10:31 AM

With a track height of 40 inches, is this to be a sit down layout?

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 12:42 PM

Some good points on too much attention to one layout. Therefore I will treat both of them as the new layout and build both at the same time.

As far as operating this, thinking about it more. I will probably run trains from main layout to steel mill. ie loading coal trains, ore from Colorado mines, then deliver them to the mill.

I will add a runaround track, thanks for that.

This will mainly be standup layout, but at times will sit and relax and enjoy that too. The reason why I lowered the track height from 42 to 40 is because of the long reaches in some spots.

Michael


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Posted by snjroy on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 1:37 PM

I think it's a great idea to think about what the expansion will look like when designing a layout. That way, you can plan and build your connecting tracks on your first layout, without starting the second layout right away... I don't know if you have a lot of time (and money) in your hands, but that first layout will take a lot of time and resources to build. So why not start with the first layout, and do the second layout later? There are many unfinished layouts (and frustrated modelers) out there...

About the second layout, I agree that you should aim for both an independent and linked operation between rooms. It doesn't have to be a loop in layout two, but you should plan for some sort of switching operations that doesn't require you to change rooms. Think of all the obstacles you have to go through to go from one room to another, including a duck-under... It won't be fun to operate a train going from one room to another if there are many hoops to go through. Unless you don't care much for operations, which is totally OK too.

Simon 

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 2:53 PM

Yes I agree, its going to take a lot of time and money. But my goal is finish benchwork (main layout) within 2 weeks. And get at least the two mainlines track down so I could run some trains as soon as possible another 2 weeks for that.

For operating the two. I will try to minimize runs going from one room to another, like one per session.

Also I just thought of this idea during lunch. Both Coors and the Power Plant have ongoing contruction projects and they need lots of steel deliveries. And Coors can send beer to the steel mill. Becuase what is better than an ice cold beer after working in a blast furnace all day!

 

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Posted by davidmurray on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 3:01 PM

Motley
Becuase what is better than an ice cold beer after working in a blast furnace all day!

The problem is that most employers do not permit alcohol on the premises.  Meaning no beer at work, and the police don't like beer consumption in cars.

Dave

 

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 3:09 PM

davidmurray

 

Motley
Becuase what is better than an ice cold beer after working in a blast furnace all day!

 The problem is that most employers do not permit alcohol on the premises.  Meaning no beer at work, and the police don't like beer consumption in cars.

Dave

 

 

 
Its a model railroad not real life, but I think the steel workers (if anybody) deserves an exception to no beer policies. Of course its only allowed after their work shift. Also have you seen the movie "Wolf on Wallstreet". Maye this is during the wild 80s. haha

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, September 11, 2019 8:53 PM

Ok I added some more tracks for coal hoppers, and a runaround track. 

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, September 12, 2019 9:55 AM

davidmurray

 

 
Motley
Becuase what is better than an ice cold beer after working in a blast furnace all day!

 

The problem is that most employers do not permit alcohol on the premises.  Meaning no beer at work, and the police don't like beer consumption in cars.

Dave 

That's why some call it proto-lancing.  His model Rr, his rules.  Stick out tongue

It's thirsty work after all.

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Posted by Tom Bryant_MR on Thursday, September 12, 2019 1:32 PM

Welcome back Michael!  It is always good to see someone returning to the hobby after being away and the excitement of having another layout - just as good as the first layout Smile

And, as always, a lot of good help for the others on the forum.

Best modeling and keep the updates coming.

Tom

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Posted by Motley on Monday, September 16, 2019 1:38 AM

Makin progress. Have about half of the benchwork done now.

Picked up this sweet looking SD70Ace #1943 Athearn Genesis.

Been working on some structers. These will be for the power plant.

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, September 17, 2019 11:10 PM

I have an update on the steel mill track plan. I found out that the blast furnace dump coal/ore track is actually elevated. So I created a new track there to be elevated by around 3".

Also I found out that I can actually use the rolling mill building as a BOF. Because there is no BOF Walthers structure.

Added an area for a scrap yard.

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, September 18, 2019 5:16 AM

Here's an update on the steel mill trackplan. I found out that the blast furnace has two elevated tracks, so I added those.

And for the BOF, I will be using the rolling mill structure, becuase Walthers doesn't have any BOF's.

Added a scrap yard too.

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, September 19, 2019 3:56 AM

Another update. I think this will be the final version. Ok so I had to move the coke oven and quench tower to the top side. Because where I had it I wouldn't be able to reach the tracks over those structures.

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Friday, September 20, 2019 1:20 PM

I can't see the pictures from your posts on September 16 and 17. All I see are "do not enter" signs...

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, September 26, 2019 10:29 PM

Still workin on benchwork, but I'm getting close, possibly next week will be finished.

I made some changes on the main layout trackplan. I have room for a 3 stall roundhouse. And I added a small passenger station on the left.

 

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, October 5, 2019 6:57 AM

I'm on the last section of the benchwork. Yaaaaah finally!

But I ran out of wood, ooops. Now I need to get more before I finish. I will be getting the foam down tomorrow.

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Saturday, October 5, 2019 12:17 PM

Uhh, just so your aware I cannot see your picture, only a “Do Not Enter” kind of sign. If you could fix this I would like it very much! Smile

Regards, Isaac

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Saturday, October 5, 2019 1:37 PM

BNSF UP and others modeler

I can't see the pictures from your posts on September 16 and 17. All I see are "do not enter" signs...

 
Same here.  I used to think the photo host was blocked a work but I get the no entry symbol on my Android phone at home. 
 
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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, October 5, 2019 3:46 PM

riogrande5761

BNSF UP and others modeler

I can't see the pictures from your posts on September 16 and 17. All I see are "do not enter" signs...

 
 
Sum Ting Wong

 
I can't see those photos, either, but there's no indication, other than Michael's text, that a picture should be there...no partial code or any symbol showing on my screen.
 
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Posted by BigDaddy on Saturday, October 5, 2019 7:10 PM

They are links to Google photos.  I use google photos for other things, maybe that's why I can see them in chrome, and some of them in Firefox.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, October 7, 2019 9:06 AM

Motley
his will mainly be standup layout, but at times will sit and relax and enjoy that too. The reason why I lowered the track height from 42 to 40 is because of the long reaches in some spots.

.

I am a proponent of lower layouts. As we grow older, there is always the possibility that standing can become difficult. It is easier to stand at a lower layout than sit at a taller one.

.

-Kevin

.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, October 7, 2019 10:10 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
Motley
his will mainly be standup layout, but at times will sit and relax and enjoy that too. The reason why I lowered the track height from 42 to 40 is because of the long reaches in some spots.

 

.

I am a proponent of lower layouts. As we grow older, there is always the possibility that standing can become difficult. It is easier to stand at a lower layout than sit at a taller one.

.

-Kevin

.

 

 

I'm considering keeping my new layout lower, and providing chairs. My aisles are plenty wide......and my scenes will be 3' to 4' deep in most places.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, October 10, 2019 9:10 AM

Ok I have no idea whats up with Google photos. I just signed up for flicker. (screw google).

Can you guys see this now?

 

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, October 10, 2019 11:09 AM

Shows up fine for me.  I use Google Chrome.

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Posted by kasskaboose on Thursday, October 10, 2019 11:56 AM

On my current 2nd layout, I don't have a duckunder and love it.  Being able to walk with hands full and not worry about crashing into anything is invaluable.  I can't imagine getting older and having to crawl down to the layout.  Many prob won't bother ducking under either.  Again, if that's fine with you; it's your layout!

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, October 10, 2019 2:05 PM

Doughless

Shows up fine for me.  I use Google Chrome.

 

 Ya probably most people stil use internet exploder.

Douglas, Hey I got a question for ya. Can I paint the foam with latex paint first, will it affect the latex caulk from sticking to the cork roadbed?

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, October 11, 2019 9:39 AM

Motley

 

 
Doughless

Shows up fine for me.  I use Google Chrome.

 
 

 

 Ya probably most people stil use internet exploder.

Douglas, Hey I got a question for ya. Can I paint the foam with latex paint first, will it affect the latex caulk from sticking to the cork roadbed?

 

I'm not the guy to ask, since I've never used foam.  I hear that paint sticks to foam fine, but I'd use a flat finish.

I think ultimate adhesion by anything you stick to a painted surface is only as strong as the adhesion that exists between the paint and the surface.  In this case, the critical bond is the paint to foam.

That won't affect how well the caulk sticks to the roadbed, which I don't think is your real question.

The paint to foam bond might be a good enough bond for laying caulked roadbed onto the painted foam, but I think most would suggest to lay the caulked roadbed straight onto the foam, then paint around it at some point.

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Posted by Motley on Friday, October 11, 2019 12:09 PM

Doughless

 Motley

 

 
Doughless

Shows up fine for me.  I use Google Chrome.

 
 

Douglas, Hey I got a question for ya. Can I paint the foam with latex paint first, will it affect the latex caulk from sticking to the cork roadbed?

 

 I'm not the guy to ask, since I've never used foam.  I hear that paint sticks to foam fine, but I'd use a flat finish.

I think ultimate adhesion by anything you stick to a painted surface is only as strong as the adhesion that exists between the paint and the surface.  In this case, the critical bond is the paint to foam.

That won't affect how well the caulk sticks to the roadbed, which I don't think is your real question.

The paint to foam bond might be a good enough bond for laying caulked roadbed onto the painted foam, but I think most would suggest to lay the caulked roadbed straight onto the foam, then paint around it at some point.

 

 
Ok thanks, I'll just wait and paint the foam later.

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, October 12, 2019 5:17 PM

Well I FINALLY finished the benchwork. Took a bit too long, I wasn't putting a whole lot of time into it. Could have finished a couple weeks ago.

Nevertheless. I am happy benchwork is over, its a lot of hard work. lol

Foam will be down in the next couple of days, then I can get some trackwork done!! My goal is to have the two mainlines completed in 2 weeks. I wanna runs some trains already!

  I made sure to give myself plenty of room to duck under the entrance here.

 

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, October 14, 2019 10:28 AM

Nice progress.  Now you'll be able to see the trackplan come into reality, and will probably make adjustments once you start laying things out.

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Posted by Motley on Monday, October 14, 2019 10:55 AM

Doughless

Nice progress.  .Now you'll be able to see the trackplan come into reality, and will probably make adjustments once you start laying things out.

 

 
Thanks Douglas. Right now I'm working on getting all the foam down.
 
And I need to order all the backdrops. Ouch thats gonna be around $1000 for 5 10 ft backdrops.
 
Yes indeed my other layout I know had a lot of changes when laying track. The only thing I'm concerened about is the yard tracks, and I'll have to use some curved switches on both ends. Probably end up doing the yard section last.

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Monday, October 14, 2019 12:22 PM

Nice to see some progress on your layout. I too can’t wait to see you get some trains running. I really love these threads on people’s layouts! See people make progress is really cool!

Regards, Isaac

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Posted by Doughless on Monday, October 14, 2019 2:21 PM

Motley

 

 
Doughless

Nice progress.  .Now you'll be able to see the trackplan come into reality, and will probably make adjustments once you start laying things out.

 

 

 
Thanks Douglas. Right now I'm working on getting all the foam down.
 
And I need to order all the backdrops. Ouch thats gonna be around $1000 for 5 10 ft backdrops.
 
Yes indeed my other layout I know had a lot of changes when laying track. The only thing I'm concerened about is the yard tracks, and I'll have to use some curved switches on both ends. Probably end up doing the yard section last.
 

Michael, seek out others advice, but you might want to do the yard first, not last.

I always think its best to start with the most congested area of turnouts, then work out from there.  Simply adjusting the angles a little bit can have some dramatic changes into what will fit and what wont.  I think yard tracks look best when they are perfectly parallel for a long length, so I would probably start with that.  Otherwise, you might be forced to fit them in after other things are laid and it might not look right.  JMO.

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, October 20, 2019 4:24 PM

I got all the foam installed. I'm starting to lay out the track. Going to start with the right side where Coors will be.

This is very exciting!

This is where Coors will be

This is the top side where the mountain scene will be.

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, October 24, 2019 1:52 PM

I have been working on laying out the track and see how things will fit.

I started with Coors on the right side. I will only have room for two tracks there (trackplan had 3). I am using the Walthers Superior Paper kit (already have kit and currently building it) for the main building. and its 20" x 12" size. Using the ADM grain elevator kit 10" x 13", and the modern warehouse kit which is 20" x 12". I know that is a lot of big buildings, but I have to because its Coors!

This is the upper right corner where the coal mine will be.

I will be ordering the photo backdrops tomorrow. I cant glue any track down until I install the backdrops.

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Posted by Motley on Friday, November 8, 2019 6:01 PM

Well I've been in a holding pattern. I can't install any track until I get the photo backdrops. Here it is Friday and its been two weeks since I ordered them. Hopefully I get them by Monday, I'm really itchin to lay track and run trains.

I laid out all the track for Coors, Mountains, and left side where the power plant will be. I thought I could make room for the Oil Refinery, but I can't make it work. Only have like 10" of space between the backdrop and mainline. So I will go with the Frac Sand facilty (I already have the kit).

In the meantime, I've been building structures. Almost finished with the first Coors building. And doing a lot of shopping. I finally found some D&RGW equipement! Got some BLI SD9s coming in the mail.

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Posted by SPSOT fan on Saturday, November 9, 2019 2:20 AM

Nice to see the track plan starting to come together, even if the track can’t quite be laid yet!

It’s good to hear that you able to get some of those structures built while waiting to lay track! That will save you from having a bunch of sidings without indust once the track is laid!

Regards, Isaac

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Posted by Motley on Saturday, November 9, 2019 10:52 AM

SPSOT fan

Nice to see the track plan starting to come together, even if the track can’t quite be laid yet!

It’s good to hear that you able to get some of those structures built while waiting to lay track! That will save you from having a bunch of sidings without indust once the track is laid!

 

 
Thanks! Ya building the structures is fun. And shopping for equipment and structures is fun too. I also have the 3 Power Plant structers completed.
 
So far equipment I have aquired is: BLI S4 4-8-4 GN, D&RGW SD9, UP 1943 SD70Ace. Passenger cars, and some rolling stock too.
 
Next week I will be ordering BLI E7 A/B PENN & Penn passsenger cars!!

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, November 19, 2019 4:07 PM

Update on the backdrops. I still don't have them. Its been over 3 weeks now. Damn. I called Backdrop warehouse, and they are behind. Apparantly when I placed my order, they recieved a lot of other orders at the same time. Just my luck.

They told me my order was being printed now, and will ship on Wednesday. So I should have it by Friday.

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Posted by Motley on Monday, December 9, 2019 5:50 PM

Finally have an update. As you guys know I waited more than 4 weeks for the backdrops, and now the city backdrop is being returned. Ordered another backdrop from Railroadbackdrops.com.

So I am finally able to start laying track.

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Posted by thomas81z on Friday, December 13, 2019 6:26 PM

Motley

Finally have an update. As you guys know I waited more than 4 weeks for the backdrops, and now the city backdrop is being returned. Ordered another backdrop from Railroadbackdrops.com.

So I am finally able to start laying track.

 

just wow with the rockies for your background ,so roster wise what are you modeling transition or mordern era ?? 80 to present ??

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 13, 2019 6:41 PM

thomas81z

 Motley

Finally have an update. As you guys know I waited more than 4 weeks for the backdrops, and now the city backdrop is being returned. Ordered another backdrop from Railroadbackdrops.com.

So I am finally able to start laying track.

 

 

  just wow with the rockies for your background ,so roster wise what are you modeling transition or mordern era ?? 80 to present ??

  

I am modeling modern era, but I have never owned any 1950s era trains before, so I will swap them out from time to time. Duel era.

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, December 19, 2019 12:20 PM

Got the new Denver downtown backdrop installed. And steadily making progress on the trackwork.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, December 19, 2019 12:33 PM

The mountains look good.  I intially thought the eye level of the was too high but the more I think of it, the more I like that is at the height of the smaller buildings.

I am interested in how you work the scenery next to it, because the lack of foreground in the city scene seems odd to me, but I previously admitted a lack of knowledge in working with photo backgrounds.  So don't take it as a criticism.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, December 19, 2019 1:43 PM

Wow... you sure are making progress.

.

Way to go.

.

-Kevin

.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, December 20, 2019 11:25 AM

Michael,

Your progress is great and the backdrops look very nice. I may have to consider that for some areas of my new layout.

I have a question, please forgive if this has already been explained. I struggle to understand the attraction to foam board, so my question is this.

I see you are laying cork right on the foam and it appears most trackage will be level at that elevation. So what is the advantage of the foam? What purpose does it serve different from plywood or homasote?

I see it looks like you have osb board under the foam, cost and effort it seems to me homasote or simply better plywood would do the same job?

Just trying to understand?

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 12:57 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Michael,

Your progress is great and the backdrops look very nice. I may have to consider that for some areas of my new layout.

I have a question, please forgive if this has already been explained. I struggle to understand the attraction to foam board, so my question is this.

I see you are laying cork right on the foam and it appears most trackage will be level at that elevation. So what is the advantage of the foam? What purpose does it serve different from plywood or homasote?

I see it looks like you have osb board under the foam, cost and effort it seems to me homasote or simply better plywood would do the same job?

Just trying to understand?

Sheldon

 

Hello Sheldon thanks for your comments. The advantages of using foam is, you can dig down into the foam to make rivers and ditches, overall just to make the landscape look hilly.

I am using OSB because its cheaper and easier to work with cutting. and provides a flatter surface than plywood.

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 1:05 PM

BigDaddy

The mountains look good.  I intially thought the eye level of the was too high but the more I think of it, the more I like that is at the height of the smaller buildings.

I am interested in how you work the scenery next to it, because the lack of foreground in the city scene seems odd to me, but I previously admitted a lack of knowledge in working with photo backgrounds.  So don't take it as a criticism.

 

 
I see what you are saying about the eye level with the city buildings. But most of the city backdrops are like that with little foreground.
 
I am confident it will look good after I get the passenger station, yard facilities in that location which should cover some of that. I can also add a line of trees in there.

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 1:13 PM

SeeYou190

Wow... you sure are making progress.

.

Way to go.

.

-Kevin

 

 
Thanks Kevin I appreciate the feedback. My goal was to get trains running by Christmas, and I might not have the mainline loop finished, but will be able to run trains back and forth on the mountain scene.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Friday, December 20, 2019 3:52 PM

Motley
The advantages of using foam is, you can dig down into the foam to make rivers and ditches, overall just to make the landscape look hilly.

It's one way of doing it.  Another way is to support the subroadbed on risers high enough the benchwork that there is ample room for the landscape to fall below or rise above the RR grade.  That way you don't have to carve away possible half or more of the foam to get the morphology of the land scape, potentially throwing away a lot of paid for foam.

Like Sheldon, I have never understood the attraction to foam.  It won't hold spike and you have to carve and throw away a good deal of material you paid for to get land scape.  With old school subroadbed on risers, you throw almost nothing away, and only build landscape that is needed using wire mesh or cardboard strip (free) and a bit of hot glue.  Over that you can use plaster cloth or paper machet or whatever.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, December 20, 2019 4:31 PM

riogrande5761

 

 
Motley
The advantages of using foam is, you can dig down into the foam to make rivers and ditches, overall just to make the landscape look hilly.

 

It's one way of doing it.  Another way is to support the subroadbed on risers high enough the benchwork that there is ample room for the landscape to fall below or rise above the RR grade.  That way you don't have to carve away possible half or more of the foam to get the morphology of the land scape, potentially throwing away a lot of paid for foam.

Like Sheldon, I have never understood the attraction to foam.  It won't hold spike and you have to carve and throw away a good deal of material you paid for to get land scape.  With old school subroadbed on risers, you throw almost nothing away, and only build landscape that is needed using wire mesh or cardboard strip (free) and a bit of hot glue.  Over that you can use plaster cloth or paper machet or whatever.

 

Yes, I have always used open grid methods similar to riogrande's picture.

In fact I still tend to be a "hard shell" or plaster on wire screen kind of guy....

Sheldon  

    

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 6:17 PM

riogrande5761

 Motley

The advantages of using foam is, you can dig down into the foam to make rivers and ditches, overall just to make the landscape look hilly.

 

It's one way of doing it.  Another way is to support the subroadbed on risers high enough the benchwork that there is ample room for the landscape to fall below or rise above the RR grade.  That way you don't have to carve away possible half or more of the foam to get the morphology of the land scape, potentially throwing away a lot of paid for foam.

Like Sheldon, I have never understood the attraction to foam.  It won't hold spike and you have to carve and throw away a good deal of material you paid for to get land scape.  With old school subroadbed on risers, you throw almost nothing away, and only build landscape that is needed using wire mesh or cardboard strip (free) and a bit of hot glue.  Over that you can use plaster cloth or paper machet or whatever.

 

That looks great and all. But sure seems like a lot of work just to make hills, I have no experience doing stuff like that, and frankly scares me a bit. I need easy solutions. This includes benchwork, which I am not very good with either.

With foam it is very easy to carve out, and build it up for mountains. You can put the plaster over the foam.

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, December 20, 2019 6:35 PM

Michael, you're not doing any grade changes or crossovers.  Foam is fine for scenery on a flat grade like you're doing.  Carve out a little gully here, build up some hills around it.  No need to do much else on a shelf layout where you're not planning a lot of verticality.  You've also planned for large buildings on each of the 4 sides, which require a big flat footprint.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, December 20, 2019 6:55 PM

Doughless

Michael, you're not doing any grade changes or crossovers.  Foam is fine for scenery on a flat grade like you're doing.  Carve out a little gully here, build up some hills around it.  No need to do much else on a shelf layout where you're not planning a lot of verticality.  You've also planned for large buildings on each of the 4 sides, which require a big flat footprint.

 

I was not suggesting there is anything wrong with that approach. I use my share of flat areas for structures, urban areas, industries, etc.

And previously I built a multi deck layout and keeping benchwork thin was important, even on the lower level which had a staging level below that.

On that layout I simply padded the roadbed up some so that gently rolling terrain could be built on top the plywood base.

My primary dislike for foam comes from the fact that I am use to climbing/supporting myself on the benchwork........my weight will dent foam.......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, December 20, 2019 7:49 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
Doughless

Michael, you're not doing any grade changes or crossovers.  Foam is fine for scenery on a flat grade like you're doing.  Carve out a little gully here, build up some hills around it.  No need to do much else on a shelf layout where you're not planning a lot of verticality.  You've also planned for large buildings on each of the 4 sides, which require a big flat footprint.

 

 

 

I was not suggesting there is anything wrong with that approach. I use my share of flat areas for structures, urban areas, industries, etc.

And previously I built a multi deck layout and keeping benchwork thin was important, even on the lower level which had a staging level below that.

On that layout I simply padded the roadbed up some so that gently rolling terrain could be built on top the plywood base.

My primary dislike for foam comes from the fact that I am use to climbing/supporting myself on the benchwork........my weight will dent foam.......

Sheldon

 

I understand that neither you or anybody else was criticizing. 

I stepped in because I have a vision that Michael's layout is going to look a lot like his last one scenically.  It photographed very well, IMO.  I just wanted to illustrate the differences in scenick approaches between very open western terrain and others with narrower ROWs.  More vistas rather than trains snaking through mountains and valleys.  Rivers were the gulley type tributaries that are seen in drier parts, not so much gorges and stuff.  

The foam lends itself to those more shallow carvings.  I think RioGrande's layout was more vertical with fewer industries, so the traditional approach would work better than flat foam, IMO.

I think if somebody is looking at it from strictly building hills, stacking up foam pieces works as well as traditional hardshell and its matter of preference,  or why bother to learn something different for real no gain.

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 20, 2019 8:22 PM

Douglas, you know exactly my vision for the layout.

What I plan on doing is using the foam hills to seperate the two mainline tracks.

I was thinking about adding a tunnel. But I don't have enough room there because I want to make a river scene. For the river the foam is only 1.5", and I want to make the river about 6-8" deep. I can cut out a small section for that.

 

 

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Posted by Doughless on Friday, December 20, 2019 8:50 PM

Motley

Douglas, you know exactly my vision for the layout.

What I plan on doing is using the foam hills to seperate the two mainline tracks.

I was thinking about adding a tunnel. But I don't have enough room there because I want to make a river scene. For the river the foam is only 1.5", and I want to make the river about 6-8" deep. I can cut out a small section for that.

 

 

 

That's how I'm approaching my under track scenery.  Except I'm building a small section that's below the prevailing sections ahead of time instead of cutting it out later.  The small section will be 48 inches high off the floor while the rest of the layout will be 52 inches high.

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, December 22, 2019 9:51 AM

Doughless

 Motley

Douglas, you know exactly my vision for the layout.

What I plan on doing is using the foam hills to seperate the two mainline tracks.

I was thinking about adding a tunnel. But I don't have enough room there because I want to make a river scene. For the river the foam is only 1.5", and I want to make the river about 6-8" deep. I can cut out a small section for that.

 

That's how I'm approaching my under track scenery.  Except I'm building a small section that's below the prevailing sections ahead of time instead of cutting it out later.  The small section will be 48 inches high off the floor while the rest of the layout will be 52 inches high.

 

Douglas do you have a build thread? I'd sure like to see some photos of your new layout!

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, December 22, 2019 11:25 AM

 I throw away nothing - I still have a box full of small foam chunks. The bits you carve out for below track level scenery, you glue back on to form the bits that go above track level.

 As for spike holding - I last used spikes on a layout more than 20 years ago (ok, there was a long time in there I had NO layout...). The last two used adhesive caulk, and the next one will too. The ability of the base material to hold spikes is a non issue. In fact, the ability of the foam to take a push pin to hold track in place while the caulk set up was actually a benefit. They push in easily and they do hold with plenty of force to keep the track in place. If I used plywood, I would have to use the soup can express to hold the track in place. Push pins are quicker and I don't have to raid the pantry to weight things down.

 I may use less foam base this time, but not through any dissatisfaction with how it worked on the last two layouts. I will be using a lot for the scenery, cutting and stacking it  and then carving. 

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Posted by Doughless on Sunday, December 22, 2019 12:07 PM

Motley

 

 
Doughless

 Motley

Douglas, you know exactly my vision for the layout.

What I plan on doing is using the foam hills to seperate the two mainline tracks.

I was thinking about adding a tunnel. But I don't have enough room there because I want to make a river scene. For the river the foam is only 1.5", and I want to make the river about 6-8" deep. I can cut out a small section for that.

 

That's how I'm approaching my under track scenery.  Except I'm building a small section that's below the prevailing sections ahead of time instead of cutting it out later.  The small section will be 48 inches high off the floor while the rest of the layout will be 52 inches high.

 

 

 

Douglas do you have a build thread? I'd sure like to see some photos of your new layout!

 

Thanks for the comment.  I don't have a photo hosting site yet, so that is a hurdle.  I'm slow, so that's another. And I've gotten distacted by doing some actual modeling like weathering trains.

I've thought about taking some photos at significant portions of the build.  Currently I've built the sky blue backdrop and the benchwork, just have to attach the plywood table top and trim out everything to give it a finished look. 

Nothing exciting about how I built a generic table top, so the finished benchwork with the plain sky blue backdrop might be the first photo. 

- Douglas

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, December 22, 2019 12:42 PM

rrinker

 I throw away nothing - I still have a box full of small foam chunks. The bits you carve out for below track level scenery, you glue back on to form the bits that go above track level.

 As for spike holding - I last used spikes on a layout more than 20 years ago (ok, there was a long time in there I had NO layout...). The last two used adhesive caulk, and the next one will too. The ability of the base material to hold spikes is a non issue. In fact, the ability of the foam to take a push pin to hold track in place while the caulk set up was actually a benefit. They push in easily and they do hold with plenty of force to keep the track in place. If I used plywood, I would have to use the soup can express to hold the track in place. Push pins are quicker and I don't have to raid the pantry to weight things down.

 I may use less foam base this time, but not through any dissatisfaction with how it worked on the last two layouts. I will be using a lot for the scenery, cutting and stacking it  and then carving. 

                                  --Randy

 

 

Homasote and Homasote roadbed remain my "go to" base for track and flat scenery. 

And rolling scenery/hills/mountains will likely be plaster products over screen once again.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Motley on Friday, December 27, 2019 8:37 PM

Another reason I like using foam, is the abilty to easily cut out the peices for the Peco switch machines to drop into. Much easier than having to cut out these from plywood.

Michael


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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, December 27, 2019 9:02 PM

That is a good system if you use the PECO track and switch motors, no question.

While very high quality, in my case PECO is not a product that suits my needs.

Looks like you are continuing to make good progress.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, December 28, 2019 1:16 PM

Motley
Another reason I like using foam, is the abilty to easily cut out the peices for the Peco switch machines to drop into.

I really don't care for any system that requires something mechanical/electrical be buried under something else.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, December 28, 2019 1:52 PM

maxman
I really don't care for any system that requires something mechanical/electrical be buried under something else.

.

Is there a perfect system where everything is always accessable?

.

It seems that on every layout I have built, something always winds up under something else.

.

The Peco system is very reliable. I know of two large layouts that use Peco components on all trackage with no problems.

.

-Kevin

.

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Tinplate Toddler on Saturday, December 28, 2019 2:00 PM

maxman
I really don't care for any system that requires something mechanical/electrical be buried under something else.

Sorry, but this is a rather silly statement. Any switch machine will somehow be buried under something, unless you go for those primitive attached thingies Atlas and others still sell.

Sometimes I find your humor not very humorous.

The Peco track system, including their switches and switch "motores" are highly reliable. The switch motors have one big drawback, though - they draw an awful lot of current!

Happy times!

Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)

"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"

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Posted by mbinsewi on Saturday, December 28, 2019 2:02 PM

Maybe he could make a removable hatch in the plywood underneath, to gain access to the machine, without picking up track.

Mike.

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, December 29, 2019 7:01 PM

You don't service selenoid switch machines. They just work for ever and ever. I have never heard of a peco switch machine failing. On my last layout I had 35 Peco switch machines and never had a problem in 7 years I had that layout.

The switch will fail before the machine fails.

 

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, January 15, 2020 1:31 PM

Just getting more trackwork done. Left side (where the power plant)  is almost finished. And the two mainlines on the top side are almost complete as well.

Michael


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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, January 15, 2020 2:56 PM

Michael,

I like the backdrop!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, January 28, 2020 5:46 PM

I'm taking a break from track laying. I just finished this Coors building. Its Walthers Wasington Salvage Yard. Gonna use it as a Coors maintence building.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 12:04 AM

I haven't updated this thread in a while. Track laying has been slow. I did get some switches, and the outside mainline. This is on the right side (Coors area).

I decided to go with Peco #8s here, for the curve entry to the yard. And using #7 curved switches here to.

And I had to remove a section of track here. There was a small bulge from the foam joints. Just shaved the roadbed some.

Michael


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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, July 7, 2020 12:17 AM

Hi Michael,

Any progress is good progress! Your backdrop looks good!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by Motley on Friday, July 17, 2020 9:54 PM

Still laying track and making good progress. I have started the yard area as well.

I got sick of seeing that damn pink foam so I started to paint it with a dirt color for scenery base.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Saturday, July 25, 2020 5:17 AM

Still in track laying mode. Getting the mainlines for the yard almost complete.

Michael


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Posted by Lastspikemike on Saturday, July 25, 2020 8:52 AM

Motley

You don't service selenoid switch machines. They just work for ever and ever. I have never heard of a peco switch machine failing. On my last layout I had 35 Peco switch machines and never had a problem in 7 years I had that layout.

The switch will fail before the machine fails.

 

 

Always always always carefully check the wiring to a Peco turnout motor before assuming there's anything wrong with the motor. It's as simple and anvil reliable as a doorbell. They need full amperage to operate. Use a CDU if you can. 

They also make a W series that draws less current. 

Latest are the new orange coloured twistlock motors designed to clip on under the roadbed instead of directly under the turnout throw bar. 

Anyway, since the standard Peco point motor clips directly to the turnout I just treat the turnout and its motor complete with wiring harness as a single piece of track. If it goes wrong you just lift it out, fix it and return it in place. It's more likely the turnout will need repair than  the motor. 

Alyth Yard

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, July 30, 2020 5:21 PM

I started painting the track. I used floguil by hand with a brush.

I mixed brown, black, and dark green to get the color I wanted.

Do you guys like it?

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Monday, August 3, 2020 11:05 AM

Getin closer to finishing the two mainlines. Yes they are not dead straight, because I have 2.5" centers on the tracks, but the crossover switches are 2.25" centers. So they have to bend slightly at the switch.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:22 PM

I started installing some of the power feeders on the outside mainline. I hooked up my NCE Powerhouse Pro wireless. And I ran some trains!!! for a couple hours at least. I can run about 3/4 around the outside main. Back and forth and it was really fun.

And I got some more panting done. I hate the pink foam color.

I want to start on scenery already, and I don't have all the trackwork completed.

Michael


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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:52 PM

I have known the pain of needing to wait to build scenery.

The pain of not having a spot for my layout is worse!

Congratulations on the successful train runs.

-Kevin

Wink Happily modeling my STRATTON & GILLETTE RAILROAD. A Class A line located in a personal fantasy world of semi-plausible nonsense on Tuesday, August 3rd, 1954.

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Posted by Motley on Friday, August 7, 2020 6:37 PM

SeeYou190

I have known the pain of needing to wait to build scenery.

The pain of not having a spot for my layout is worse!

Congratulations on the successful train runs.

-Kevin

 

 
Thanks Kevin, I really appreciate all of your help and feedback with my new layout. I can't believe its taking this long before I could run trains. But I've been taking my time to make sure I do things correctly.
 
Benchwork and wiring is not my favorite thing, but scenery and structures and running trains is really fun.
 
All the hard work is finally paying off and I am having a great time now.

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Friday, August 7, 2020 6:47 PM

I built this (removable) mountain section for the left corner, using foam peices and plaster. I did this a couple months ago, just waiting to finally place it.

I will make it look better with some more surrounding hills and trees later on.

Michael


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