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Helix Derailments, rare or common?

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  • Member since
    February, 2009
  • 1,460 posts
Posted by railandsail on Monday, May 20, 2019 6:34 PM

Hook & Loop Straps

I have not even spent much time looking at what else is available,..but the general idea of using 'removable' and 'strong' velcro type straping is very appealing.

 

for instances,...

http://www.essentracomponents.com/en-us/fiber-wire-cable-management/cable-ties-mounts/cable-ties/hook-loop-cable-management/hook-loop-cinch-straps-any-length

  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: In the heart of Georgia
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Posted by Doughless on Monday, May 20, 2019 6:58 PM

railandsail

 

 
Doughless

Not totally following your idea.  Would you run the strips vertically, stretching them taught enough to hold derailed cars?  And keeping a gap of 3 or so inches between each vertical strip to place a hand to rerail cars?

 

 

 

Yes I would run the strips vertically, likely glueing the top edge on the top level, letting them hang down the inner edges of the helix levels. Then a slight stretching and velco their bottom edges onto the lower level. They could be easily detached at the bottom and rolled up to permit work, track cleaning, etc on the helix tracks.

I imagine the multiple reinforcement of multiple strips would contain derailments WITHOUT even including attachments at each level. This material is much stronger that one might imagine. If it became necessary to make things stronger then I might experiment with small retangular strips of opposing velcro could be attached to the edges of the masonite roadbed at every other level vertically.

I believe these vertical strips could be located a minimum of 6" apart. Most derailments are not going to occur as a single individual car dividing itself out of a consist to derail. Most derails I've seen are a string of cars trying to still stay coupled together while heeling over. And most engines that are going to try and negoiate the helix are going to be longer that 6 ".

I'm not crazy, I'm exercising some 'thinking-outside-the-box' for new ideas. I have the time to look at alternatives because I am not ready to need the helix right away.

 

BTW, perhaps that packing strip material might be just replaced with long strips of velcro type material sold at Harbor Freight, ....35 foot rolls for 6.99

 

Like I said in the other thread about the string idea, if you have gaps in the guardrail inevitably a car(s) will find it.

I can see making the strips gap-free, make the helix look like a big cocoon, but then you won't really be able to see where the derailment is.  You'll be unfastening velcro in places and lifting up strips just to see what's going on. 

Its a matter of trading off one solution for another problem, and probably comes down to preferences.

Again, I would just use strips of plexiglass acrylic about 1.5 inches high screwed into the sides of the subroadbed (if its not too thin to hold screws).  Once installed, it would provide a smooth constant barrier, visibility, and access to remove cars and clean track without having to fiddle with the barrier in any way.

But I don't often see too many strips of plexiglas laying around in someone's scrap heap to scrounge, so you might have to bite the bullett and buy it. Big Smile

- Douglas

  • Member since
    February, 2009
  • 1,460 posts
Posted by railandsail on Monday, May 20, 2019 9:52 PM

I have plenty of plexglass already, but I would not want to be placing screws into the edges of the masonite roadbed.

Remember I made this masonite roadbed of a double layer of masonite glued together. I would not wish to place any screws, or nails, or whatever into that seam of the joint. That might increase the possibility of separation and/or moisture incursion.

  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: In the heart of Georgia
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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 6:45 AM

I thought the subroadbed looked a bit thin for screws, but I don't even like to use screws into the edges of plywood.  Maybe the hot glue and stiff cardboard idea would be best.  Personally, I would want a proper height, continuous guardrail that I didn't have to remove frequently, but that's a matter of preference.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    June, 2007
  • From: Northern Virginia
  • 6,682 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, May 21, 2019 6:54 AM

You could have cut some cardboard strips and tacked them up with hot glue and been done with it days ago.  

All this faffing about with strange and exotic ideas is another round of paralysis of analysis, once again.

Remember the Nike ad?  "Just Do It".

 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

  • Member since
    February, 2009
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Posted by railandsail on Thursday, May 23, 2019 8:11 AM

Spaces between Vertical Strips

If I were to utilize vertical strips of some sort, I'm not convinced they need to be directly next to one another? I had written,..
 

I believe these vertical strips could be located a minimum of 6" apart. Most derailments are not going to occur as a single individual car dividing itself out of a consist to derail. Most derails I've seen are a string of cars trying to still stay coupled together while heeling over. And most engines that are going to try and negotiate the helix are going to be longer that 6 ".

  • Member since
    February, 2009
  • 1,460 posts
Posted by railandsail on Thursday, May 23, 2019 8:14 AM

Videos of Derailments

Just for the heck of it I went looking for some videos of model train derailments this evening. Perhaps I'll do a little more looking as I was NOT finding that many good examples to post. Most of them were rather lengthy compared to the actual accident scene, but they did show how the trains tried to remain coupled together while derailing.

I did find this interesting 3D animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fadh0zNiH08

 

Just found this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtIDQrRkNcA

 

Just found another on a long train running very fast in its helix. Look at time frame 10:55 for the BIG derailment !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA1MzK72kEA
big spaces, but no cars or locos overboard

  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: In the heart of Georgia
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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, May 23, 2019 9:33 AM

railandsail

Spaces between Vertical Strips

If I were to utilize vertical strips of some sort, I'm not convinced they need to be directly next to one another? I had written,..
 

I believe these vertical strips could be located a minimum of 6" apart. Most derailments are not going to occur as a single individual car dividing itself out of a consist to derail. Most derails I've seen are a string of cars trying to still stay coupled together while heeling over. And most engines that are going to try and negotiate the helix are going to be longer that 6 ".

 

I think the issue is that if the string of cars hits the gap, the corner of one car might get caught on the edge of the strip, then things change.  It might not ever happen.  A derailment so severe as to plummet a string of cars off of an unguarded helix may never happen either, so chances are if you did nothing, nothing will still happen.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • From: North Dakota
  • 8,147 posts
Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, May 28, 2019 9:18 AM

railandsail
What I am wondering is to hear of folks that have actually experienced such problems with their helix structures. Are such happening common place,...or rare instances??

 

The are as rare as a wildebeest!

 

Helix of LION is closed on the inside and open to view from the outside.

Helix of LION is a four track mane lion railroad.

Helix of LION is supposed to be a subway tunnel and is decorated as such.

LION modeled the bench wall, the hand rails, lighting and exits, him put not in the stanchons between the tracks for that would make rescue operations impossible.

(LION not approve oy your design. EWE have to go inside that hole to wrok on helix.  LION is to old to climb under table. Better to access tracks from the outside.

 

Your wildebeests may vary.

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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