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Interesting plan, Tupper Lake & Faust Junction

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Posted by bearman on Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:32 AM

Ok, as long as you dont have to wory about the buidling codes.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by railandsail on Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:43 AM

Other than electrical installation, which I had help with from a fellow who works as an electrical inspector for the county,...I was restricted to using a shed with NO wood siding,..only metal. That was due to fire potential due to close proximity to trailer home next door, and that was a requirement from the trailer park itself.

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Posted by bearman on Sunday, March 25, 2018 7:54 AM

Here in Phoenix, if you put up a shed and run ANY utilities to it, you need to get a building permit and you need to have the construction inspected by the city.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

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Posted by railandsail on Sunday, March 25, 2018 1:48 PM

There are virtually NO basements in Florida, so there are many, many sheds. Handi-house is one particular builder, and you get a certificate with the shed that satisfies most jurisdictions concerned building codes, and applicable hurricane strap usage in the constuction of the shed. Then it must be 'ground anchored' upon installation.
https://www.handihouse.com/

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Posted by railandsail on Wednesday, April 04, 2018 8:07 AM

Narrow Shelfs, Industry Sides, Multiple Trackage

A number of folks have critiqued this modified Tupper Lake layout design I am proposing as not having enough trackside diversions, and instead just too much train running tracks. I offer this quote and photos from another subject thread on another forum,...

**********************

I have a different approach, just for the sake of discussion I'll explain. I go to great lengths to get the tracks to match the prototype as much as possible, so that my moves will match the prototype's. Here is a map, made by a guy that used to work as a conductor at the Monsanto plant that is on my layout: 

My compression is making the tracks shorter, especially the ones that curve around and into the backdrop. If I could make this area 3' deep, I could match those tracks better, but I can't so they're shorter. They are, however, in about the right place in relation to one another, all shortened about the same percentage, and, most importantly, the moves to switch them are the same

Another guy that worked down here for the railroad has visited since I got these tracks down, and he recognizes the tracks without the labels on them. When he describes the work he did, he can follow my tracks and tell me what cars went where. THAT is my goal. Buildings are just window dressing to me. The tracks are where its at. 

 

Because those old photos of my layout look funny to me, here is a more recent photo: 

There, that's better. ;-)  

Randy
*******************************

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Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, April 04, 2018 10:06 AM

I dont know about track side diversions.  To my eye, multiple tracks inches apart from each other look realistic when the whole thing is representing an industrial area of maybe a half mile of distance.  Not so much when multiple tracks inches apart are suppossed to be representing points 20 miles from each other. 

 

- Douglas

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 11:19 PM

Train Shed interior

Finished the lining of my shed's interior this afternoon. Been a very slow process as I let myself get interrupted numerous times with designing ideas for the staging tracks, the addition to the helix for the access track, the gathering of materials for a new style brackets for the dbl-deck shelves, etc, etc.

Hope to start cutting and welding metal for the brackets for the lower main shelf and staging shelf, and actually mounting some of those very soon. Next will be to cut the shelfs for the staging level and laying the track and turnouts on it.

A little problem arose on my new helix design. I was seeking out a metal fabricator that could bend me a couple of big circular hoops of angle iron. He came back to me with too high of a price, so I need to seek out another outfit, or modify my design.

Saving those corners to do later when I decide whether to make them circular or square.

 

 

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Posted by railandsail on Sunday, May 06, 2018 7:37 AM

Some Updates

I'll add a few updates to this subject thread as they are spread out on a few individual other threads

Multiply Staging Tracks

Steel Frames to Support Plywood Shelves

I am pretty much set on this design, and I am already cutting out the roadbeds for the helix that will serve this area. The framing support for the plywood roadbed for this staging level has changed and has simplified in construction. I expect to start cutting some plywood for the staging level very soon, painting it for water/humidity resistance, and mounting track on it. It will still be removable in large sections so work can be completed on main level just above it.

Helix
Construction of the external helix itself should start within a week or 2. Just this weekend I have been excavating the dirt behind the shed in order to pour the concrete pad that will exist under the helix. (is this what model railroading is like,...digging dirt and pouring concrete...blah)
 

Thru Wall Tunnels

I'm going to start to cut holes in the back wall of the shed,...for tracks that will serve that external helix. Those holes thru the wall will likely be 'tunneled'  thru using plastic drain spout sections. I found some nice rectangular rain spout that will accomodate a single consist train, (the one on the right). The other section is PVC fence post. Both are 4 inches high, and quite stiff due to the shape

 

Steel Mill Corner & Balt City Corner

I've pretty much decided that the helix end of the layout will look like this,....with the steel scene in the right hand corner, the turntable somewhat like depicted, a center track feeding the peninsula, then the left corner a scene of Balt depicted by thin/shallow city buildings, and paintings on backdrop.

 

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Posted by railandsail on Friday, May 18, 2018 9:36 PM

General concept & How I arrived at it

I just like Model Trains,...of all sorts....the scale miniaturization.

I'm particularly fond of steam engines, and particularly the large ones. I'm a fan of C&O, B&O, NW, etc, etc.

And as a kid of course I had the ubiquitous Santa Fe diesel engine,...those famous worldwide recognizable colors.

I had recently returned from Asia and was living in the Wash-Balt area when a company in Balt called Life Like made the bold move to really upgrade plastic trains to nice scale models. They introduced their Proto 2000 line. They introduced a whole line of detailed diesel locos, then they introduced that superb 2-8-8-2 steam engine.....WOW. They set a standard in plastic scale model trains that the others quickly followed. Bachmann, Athearn, etc all jumped on the band wagon to introduce their premium lines as well. Plastic detailing became an art that eventually was a rival to brass locos.

 

I was collecting a little of everything. I would buy some stuff that eventually got superseded by even better stuff, so I would attend the Great Scale Train Show in Balt and sell off older stuff and try to upgrade to the better stuff coming out. I would visit John Glabbs little brass shop in Laural, Md, and droll over the brass locos which I considered beyond my reach, but then look what was coming out in plastic a few months later.
 

By this time I had collected quite a few steam engines of various lines, and principle a number of diesels from Santa Fe.

So when it came to planning my new layout, how could I choose just one time frame, or location, if I wanted to collect and run all of those type trains? I wanted to run steam and diesel, and I wanted to run east coast and west coast lines.....on one layout??

I've decided my trains are going to run from the east coast to the west coast,...Balt to Calif. I'll call it the Continental Connector. Balt will be on the lower deck and Calif will be on the upper deck.
 

Since I am not a stickler on time frames I'll be able to run both modern and older style freight and passenger cars on my layout, and of course steam and diesels. I'm going to have lots of staging that will present any number of variations,...including a few European trains I've collected. Yes it won't be prototypical, but it will be fun. And I hope to get a considerable amount of industry in this space as well.

I will need a big dia helix to get those trains between decks, so to save on interior space, I have decided to place that helix structure external to the shed in which the layout is built. Most all the parts of the helix structure are built, and assembly will begin in the next two weeks. Within 3days (working between spring rain storms here in FL) I hope to pour the concrete pad that will exist below the helix structure hung off the rear of the train shed.

Then the shelfing will begin inside the shed,...

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Posted by railandsail on Saturday, August 11, 2018 8:01 AM

railandsail

 

Steel Mill Site Location & Elevated Stone Arch Bridge

I have pretty much decided that the steel mill scene will be located in this right hand corner of the bottom deck, and the Balt city scene will be located in the left had corner.

I have modified the elevated double track plan in front of the steel scene to try and give the space behind this double track more room to accommodate the scene. This also makes the track curves in this are more broad in curvature.

This double mainline track, and the single 'connector track' branching off of it (denoted by arrows) will be elevated by a stone arch 'bridge' similar to one that exist in the Balt area,....

 

This arch 'bridge' will allow for tracks underneath itself in several locations including the lower loop track to the peninsula area, and hopefully several tracks to the steel scene in the background,  and may be a brick factory in front of the arch bridge.

I am having problems fitting the steel scene in. The footprint of the blast furnace itself is just too large, ....a rectangle shape almost 27" long. I could put it in 'parallel' with the stone arch bridge, but then there is almost no way to include any service tracks to it.

I thought about sectioning it up so I might just include a portion of its face, BUT I would NOT cut up my completely assembled and weathered blast furnace!! Maybe I could find a really damaged blast furnace to kit bash??...Not likely.

So what if I were to make a background painting that looked like this...

 

then make some tracks out in front between the backdrop and the arch bridge. I should be able to make that backdrop image fit in the square corner just like this real life model structure does??

I might even be able to make a small 'switching'  area here for steel related cars and locos I have.

 

 


Just saw this other reference to that B&O stone arch bridge/viaduct posted in another discussion on this forum. (lots of pics)

https://www.american-rails.com/thomas-viaduct.html

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Posted by railandsail on Thursday, September 13, 2018 10:18 PM

For the past number of months I have been working on some peripheral aspects of my layout while waiting for some help that was offered by a semi-professional designer. With that in mind I sort of ignored the primary layout plans and went about building and planning the staging area tracks, the helix structure, and the basic benchwork design and structure that would all be needed for any dbl-track layout.

Just a few days ago I wrote him this letter to inquire about his design help. He had original told me it would be about 6 months before he could get to my project, but now that wait time has been extended quite a few months.

I believe I'm going to have to move forward on my own (with some help from the public). As I got to relooking at somethings, I've actually confused myself. So any thoughts will be entertained.

Here is the letter I sent to him informing him of my current status,...

**************************************
 

Track Plan Project of mine, Part3

 

Dear XXX

Are you still willing to help me with my new layout design??

I have been diligently working on peripheral aspects, but I still need considerable help with details of the trackplan idea.
 

Helix & Staging

I knew I was going to need a helix structure to move the trains between the 2 primary decks, and I knew I wanted it to be external to the main shed to save room inside for 'the layout'. Concurrently I was looking for how I was going to access that staging area.
 

I've chosen a route to the staging areas (3 of them) via sub-loops in my helix structure. I've documented the design and construction of that helix structure in its own subject thread on several forums,...one of them here:
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/32990?page=9
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/32990?page=10

 

I've enclosed the alum helix structure in its own housing to make it waterproof, and I am now ready to begin to install the helix track and roadbed (already built in semi-circular sections).

I've cut a few of the holes in the back wall of the shed to allow the trains to 'communicate' with the helix. The lower central one for the 3-way turnout leading to the 3 staging areas, and the main (and only) track leading down or up to staging,...on the far left hand side of the main deck (see drawing).

 

I imagine this staging feeder track will run right along that left side wall to where it will connect in with one (or 2) of the mainlines . For some portion of its run as it comes up from staging into the main shed it will be located under a scene of Baltimore built as a 'flatwall scene' in that complete left hand corner of the layout. That 'Balt scene' should be built of lightweight/liftout flat-type buildings and poster paper dwgs (hopefully I've described it somewhat?). I further imagine that perhaps 1/3 down that side of the layout will be some sort of 'flatware' or drawing of the Mt Royal train station of Balt. That's a pretty iconic station, and it might allow for a B&O passenger train to sit there waiting to enter the action at certain times. (I have 2 primary passenger trains I will run at times,...the B&O and the Santa Fe)

 

 

Helix spiral
For those having a little problem visualizing my multideck spiral within the helix structure, here is another view....
(that “B” is for 'balloon loop')





 

So now I've accounted for 2 of the holes I have already cut in my shed's rear wall, the one for the single track feeding down into the staging areas, and the one for the 3 tracks entering the back wall for staging.

 

Bottom Main Deck

Now look at the holes (plural) required for my bottom 'balloon loop'. One of them is right adjacent to staging feeder track on the left. The other(s) are yet undetermined (no holes cut yet).
Originally I had 2 tracks from that balloon loop entering back into the main shed, 1)..one was the extension of the mainline making the loop, and 2) was a feeder track for the central peninsula. This could be changed according to any new layout plan. Perhaps this would just be a single track entering back thru the wall that splits into 2 to continue the mainline and feed the peninsula? Interestingly this would create a wye out in front of the Balt corner.



 

 

 

Steel Mill Corner & Balt City Corner

I've pretty much decided that the helix end of the layout will look like this,....with the steel scene in the right hand corner, the turntable somewhat like depicted, a center track feeding the peninsula, then the left corner a scene of Baltimore depicted by thin/shallow city buildings, and paintings on a backdrop.

I have these steel mill buildings (in an already built and weathered fashion) that I would really like to utilize,....and Balt at one time was a BIG steel mill center.
Steel Mill in a Corner http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/33344?page=1



I even modified my mainline tracks to be able to put that scene in my layout. Those rising grade tracks feed into the double-track helix structure, and one of them has a branch-off to the left to allow for continuous running around the bottom deck without having to go up the helix each time.

So the steel scene, the Balt scene, and the approx position of the turntable is all I have somewhat positive plans for at this moment on that bottom deck. The desire for the turntable in that area is partially fueled by the original Tupper Lake plan, and my desire to display a good number of the great steam engines I have.

 

 

Turntable Location
This location of the turntable could be open for debate. As shown now it is on the right hand side of the layout near the steel mill. But my latest thoughts have it put back over on the left side, out in front of the Balt city backdrop. In either case the side on which the turntable is located will also be the side on which the freight yard and the wider wall shelf width of the 2 will be.

 

Diesel Fueling/Servicing
I have played with the idea of a diesel engine fueling and servicing area down at the right hand lower corner, inside the mainline curves. This would be connected to a freight yard scene that might exist along that side of the layout, between the turntable at its upper edge and the diesel facility at its lower edge

Refinery and/or Oil Stowage Tanks
I also have a lot of oil stowage tanks, refinery, and piping stuff that might be deployed in a 'condensed fashion' in one of those 2 bottom corners, perhaps that refinery scene could be put over on the bottom left hand corner of the layout where there will be a bit more space??

 

Continental Theme
There were 2 things that inspired this west coast to east coast model rr theme.
1) My affection for both the Santa Fe and the B&O/C&O trains that I wanted to run all on a single layout.
2) The interesting fact that a lot of container traffic from Asia comes into the west coast to get loaded onto trains that bring it across to the east coast for further shipment to Europe.
So the lower deck represents the east coast, while the upper deck represents the west coast


 

Center Peninsula

The center peninsula design on the lower level is an open question. Basically I like the Tupper Lake design, and would definitely like to make an offloading scene for the many containers/container cars, container trains I have. Perhaps that long building shown on the original design could be converted into a container unloaded center?

 

Upper Deck

This deck is pretty much an open book at this time. The one item I definitely want up there is a model of this Santa Fe train station. And somehow a way to park a number of really nice Santa Fe locos I have in the vicinity,...maybe even a SF passenger train on occasion.
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/31423

 

I need to have a container loading facility with stacks of containers (I have plenty) and a backdrop depicting container ships and cranes at work. I've seen it mentioned that the ordinary trains (passenger, etc) might be able to run on a track behind this scene with the containers or something blocking the view that these trains might appear 'in the water' on the waterfront.... a no..no.

I'm imaging the SF station would be in one of the corners to either side of the entrance door? And the container facility would be along one portion of the side walls.

 

Logging Scene
At the backwall of the shed on the upper level, the trains might run thru a wooded area that also contains some sort 'trans-shipment area' for the logging industry. In other words the logging locos bring timber products down to cutting/processing facilities and ship out by the mainline running thru there.

The logging trains themselves would run down the hanging peninsula tracks to bring product back to that 'preparation/distribution' area next to the mainline. ( I have a number of the centerbeam cars with lumber loads for the mainline trains to haul around.

 

I have a fair number of really neat plastic and brass logging locos (and a variety of log cars) I would like to incorporate in my layout somehow. I believe many of these can negotiate tight turns and steep grades that might be put on this relatively small hanging peninsula? ...with hills and trees, perhaps even a small wood trestle bridge??

 

Misc 'Scenes'

I'm just going to include a few 'scenes' I would like to put on my layout if at all possible (these are only a few I can think of at the moment).

 

1) Brick Factory

I was always surprised that more layouts did NOT include a brick factory of some sort,...I mean it was a very popular building material back in the day. And Balt had a ton of row house built of brick. Even Washington DC had lots of brick. There is still the remnants of a brick factory just outside of DC on the old expressway between DC and Balt.

Many years ago I saw this diorama posted in one of the mags, and said I need such a scene on my next layout. Then a number of years later at the Timonium Train Show I ran into a fellow selling plaster castings of those kilns and stacks. I bought all he had.

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/33571

 

2) My Waterfront Scene
I have this WONDERFULL waterfront scene I purchased from an estate sale. Perhaps I could place it at the very end of my peninsula on the lower level. …..the more modern stuff (containers,etc) in the first portion of the peninsula, then this 'older style' waterfront at the 'pointy end' ?


http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/waterfront-harbor-s
cene-buildings-barges-tugs-detailed.24497/page-2#post-313942

 

Might have to modify its footprint a little bit. Trouble is it would set a tone of detail that I COULD NEVER match anywhere else on the layout....:)

 

3) to be continued

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Posted by railandsail on Monday, September 17, 2018 8:43 AM

Waterfront Scene Placement

I printed out a scale drawing (1" = 1', overhead view) and 'shopped around' for another place on my layout to place it. I think I found a better place than on the peninsula.

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Posted by Harrison on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 7:17 AM

Cool track plan. I have the Issue that it originally appeared in. I live on the edge on the Adirondacks, and if I didn't have a layout already in progress, I would be modeling the the Adirondack RRs. Last summer I took photos of the remnants of railroads. they can be found here and here.

Harrison (https://northcountrytrains.wordpress.com/)

Modeling the D&H(Gilford, NYS&W, CP) in The late 80's and early 90's.

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 8:16 AM

Brian.  As drawn, there is no way that blast furnace scene will fit in the corner.  You might be able to fit 3 or 4 turnouts into that corner at the most, and the spurs will be really stubby.

Overall, there isn't a lot of space for scenes with a lot of structures, or big structures, IMO. 

I think prioritization is needed.

- Douglas

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 12:19 PM

Douglas,

Here is a little sketch I did at 1" = 1'. The blast furance fits in along with 2 other buildings....I believe. I may have to go back and double check my work as I have been known to read some of these scales wrong with my advancing age and eyesight....ha...ha

My steel scene/area is pretty small. Obviously I cant fit all of the Walther's sub structures in, but perhaps those 3 main structures that the Orlando layout included.

Is there anyone willing to give me a few ideas as to how to arrange those structures, and the tracks within that area?

I've attached a dwg with the scale marks at each 1" equals 1'

(you need to click on the drawing to get it in true proportion as my scanned image was jusy slighly large for the format allowed here on this forum)

Those wall studs in the upper wall are 24" apart, and the first one is set out 6" from the side wall,....thus 30"

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 12:30 PM

One other consideration is that i am now thinking of moving the turntable back over to the left hand side (in front of the Balt City 'flat scene'), and that could allow for a little bit bigger area for steel if so desired??

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Posted by Doughless on Tuesday, September 18, 2018 6:54 PM

Ok, so you have about 3 x 4 feet, cut in half at the corner.  That's better than I thought, but I still don't think all of those turnouts will fit.  You could model only the smaller buildings, and represent the large buildings with a photo backdrop or a flat.

Walthers puts diagrams and dimensions of their footprints on the boxes.  You can usually find a pic of the box on the 'net.  You might be able to scheme more intricate plans for your scenes.

 

- Douglas

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Posted by railandsail on Wednesday, September 19, 2018 8:13 AM

Blast Furnance

There was a time that I figured I was NOT even going to be able to put the blast furnance on my layout,...maybe just a backdrop photo(s). That would be a shame as its such a 'representative piece'. So I am still trying to squeez it in.

I've even worked at raising my upper deck in that area by a couple of inches to try and accomodate the height of the blast furnance.

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Posted by railandsail on Thursday, September 20, 2018 12:14 PM

Steel Mill footprints

Just found one of the original poster size brochures Walthers put out for the their new and exciting steel mill series in 1996. And luck would have it list the foot-print sizes of the buildings. I'll have to cut out a few 'scale size footprints' and play with arranging them on my scale plan drawing.

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Posted by Doughless on Thursday, September 20, 2018 1:57 PM

railandsail

Steel Mill footprints

Just found one of the original poster size brochures Walthers put out for the their new and exciting steel mill series in 1996. And luck would have it list the foot-print sizes of the buildings. I'll have to cut out a few 'scale size footprints' and play with arranging them on my scale plan drawing.

 

That is a great approach to any layout planning, IMO.  Its probably essential given your ambitions in the limited space.

BTW, maybe do that with turnout tracks too.

- Douglas

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Posted by cuyama on Thursday, September 20, 2018 3:25 PM

railandsail
Just found one of the original poster size brochures Walthers put out for the their new and exciting steel mill series in 1996. And luck would have it list the foot-print sizes of the buildings.

Walthers now offers downloadable footprint sketches for most of their structure kits on-line. Because of the limitations their search engine places on results for out-of-stock items, sometimes one must search with Google or Bing to find the page. For example, here is the HO blast furnace page, with links to download the footprint (and instructions, for that matter)
https://www.walthers.com/blast-furnace-ashland-iron-steel-kit-28-x-14-x-21-1-2-quot-70-x-35-x-53-7cm

As was noted, I think you’ll find that turnouts drawn to-scale will be your biggest challenge in fitting-in what you imagine.

 

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Posted by railandsail on Thursday, September 20, 2018 10:53 PM

railandsail

Waterfront Scene Placement

I printed out a scale drawing (1" = 1', overhead view) and 'shopped around' for another place on my layout to place it. I think I found a better place than on the peninsula.

 

I made a scale image of this overhead shot of that waterfront scene I acquired,...

 

then placed it around a few spots on the layout dwg. Looks like this might be a good spot to located that diorama ,....with a little more 'editing/modifications' to its current perimeters....
 

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