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Building a new club layout (and other club related activities)

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, March 30, 2018 10:27 AM

Well, I'm not in Florida, but plywood should always be stored laying flat in a stable environment.......

No trouble buying domestic birch here, but you get what you pay for.........

We just bought over 300 sq feet of 3/4 for the backs of large built in bookcases. No problem getting it or with its quality.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by freeway3 on Friday, March 30, 2018 10:54 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
No trouble buying domestic birch here, but you get what you pay for.........

Sheldon, I'm not far from your area (I'm in south central PA).  May I ask the name of your source?

Thanks!

Ed

Ed

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, March 30, 2018 1:52 PM

freeway3

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
No trouble buying domestic birch here, but you get what you pay for.........

 

Sheldon, I'm not far from your area (I'm in south central PA).  May I ask the name of your source?

Thanks!

Ed

 

Just a local, independent lumber yard/building supply, Kefauver Lumber in Forest Hill, MD.

But you might have similar success at Delta Lumber in Whiteford, MD, at little closer to you.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by freeway3 on Friday, March 30, 2018 6:51 PM

Much appreciate it sir, I'll check them out.

Ed

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, March 31, 2018 2:44 PM

Henk and I went to the club this morning to figure out what to do to fix some track that has shifted a bit. The suggestion on another thread was that we should have used latex caulking to glue the track down.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/269221/3051939.aspx#3051939

We decided that the track could be easily straightened and held in place by simply using more nails. The track crew was nailing every 4" which is the spacing of the nail holes in the Atlas track. Additional nails were added at rail joints and turnouts. We are going to put in nails every 2" to see if that solves the problem. Lifting the already laid track to apply latex caulking under it was deemed to be far more work than drilling ties and installing nails. 

Dave

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 03, 2018 11:48 PM

We had an interesting time at the club on Tuesday night. The club has decided that all of our turnouts will have jumpers added as per Allan Gartner's recommendations. The problem was that nobody knew exactly how to do it except me. So, I ran a seminar to teach those members who were interested how to do it. The seminar also included some basic soldering information. I wasn't sure how many people would be interested in the seminar but it turned out that everyone in attendance wanted to get involved.

The seminar was well received, and even the experienced modellers said they got something out of it. One member who had never been able to solder on his own actually ended up modifying a couple of turnouts and he did quite well.

I was a little annoyed because my Weller soldering iron didn't seem to be working as well as it had been at home. I seemed to be able to use it just fine but several others had a bit of trouble getting the solder to flow. Also, the tip seemed to be harder to keep clean. Not sure why. We used tinning compound on it a couple of times but the solder still wouldn't flow onto the tip as smoothly as it should have. Henk suggested that maybe the voltage in the system wasn't quite up to where it should be. It is an old building. Oh well, overall the session was a success.

Dave

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Posted by gmpullman on Wednesday, April 04, 2018 12:16 AM

hon30critter
I seemed to be able to use it just fine but several others had a bit of trouble getting the solder to flow.

I wonder what solder blend you are using, Dave?

I have an EE friend that works at a hi-tech electronics builder. He brings me left-overs and recently gave me some Alpha Reliacore 63/37 in .010, .015 and .020 diameters.

I figured this is what the "pros" use so it must be good. I really didn't like it and couldn't get a good flow both on nickel silver rail or PC boards. The "eutectic" properties made it chill too fast for my liking.

After a while I went back to my Kester "44" 66/44 rosin core and suddenly realised I should have stuck with this all along. It makes a nice, shiny tent and flows beautifully.

I have some Radio Shack 60/40 too but it doesn't flow as nicely as the "44".

From what I've collected over the years I'll bet I have two-or-three dozen one-pound spools of rosin solder alone plus several dozen spools of 50/50 plumbing solder.

My kids will probably have to pay to have the property de-contaminated when I'm gone Whistling

Cheers! Ed.

 

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Posted by hon30critter on Wednesday, April 04, 2018 12:37 AM

gmpullman
I wonder what solder blend you are using, Dave?

Hi Ed:

That may well have been the problem. Normally I use Kester Electronic Silver Solder and I have no trouble with it at all. It is rosin core .020" 62% lead, 36% tin and 2% silver. I buy it from Ngineering. http://ngineering.com/soldering.htm

At the club I was using 63/37 eutectic rosin core solder which I had not used before. I bought it because I thought that the eutectic properties would result in fewer cold joints with several different people doing the soldering, some more experienced than others.

When we start to solder the feeder wires to the bus I will take some of the Kester solder to the club to see how well it works vs the eutectic stuff. I'll let everyone know the results but don't hold your breath waiting. We are having yet another discussion on how to do the bus wiring (probably the fifth time round Bang Head) and we have to resolve that before any feeders get soldered.

Cheers!!

Dave

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, April 04, 2018 7:51 PM

 Interesting, I've always used 53/37 because, indeed, it is easier to NOT get a cold joint. I've never had a problem with it not melting or flowing, even with my old collection of soldering irons back in the day. Both my station and my big gun for feeders seem to have no problem. Sounds to me that if the tip wouldn;t stay clean, the issue is the opposite of too low a voltage - it was high, and the iron was running too hot.

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, April 05, 2018 1:31 AM

rrinker
Sounds to me that if the tip wouldn;t stay clean, the issue is the opposite of too low a voltage - it was high, and the iron was running too hot.

OK Randy, I'll check that out too. It is adjustable.

Dave

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 3:22 AM

I have to share with you some recent experiences that being a club executive has exposed me to. Those of you who don't want to be club members will enjoy this!

In March we got a letter from the Ontario Government telling us that we were not in compliance with the laws governing non profit organizations. This is the second letter that we have had to that effect. I responded to the first one which we received last fall which asked us to list the club's executive members. Turns out that we didn't understand what they were asking. The club is supposed to have a Board of Directors over and above the Executives. Foolishly we had followed the advice of a member who told us that we didn't need to have Directors. OK, the simple solution was to ask the members to appoint the existing executives (President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer) to the Directors positions.

Unfortunately, there was way, way more involved. The club is also supposed to have written by-laws which govern the operation of the club. The by-laws were nowhere to be found so we had to rewrite them, which the President did to the tune of 16 pages of legaleeze! He didn't create that size of a document because he wanted to. All he did was follow the example of another non-profit organization which supposedly had all their ducks in a row. OK, now we have the by-laws so our job will be done as soon as the members agree to appoint the current Executive to the Board of Directors, or so we thought.

The next thing we discovered is that the club needs to have a separate by-law governing the dissolution of the club if that ever happens. OK, so we drew that up. Easy, right?!?

Not so quick. In order to comply with all of the government regulations we have to have a series of separate meetings to ratify all of this. Each meeting has to start with a resolution to do whatever, i.e. appoint the Board of Directors or ratify each by-law and has to end with another resolution to bring the meetings officially to a close. NO, we can't do all the things we need to do in a 'single' meeting! We can have all the meetings on the same night, but each one has to be started and stopped with their own resolutions.

OK, are you exhausted yet? I am!!!

We are not done yet!!! Each of the meetings has to be held in a particular order because if we don't ratify something like the dissolution by-law first, the following meeting can't ratify the other by-laws without the first meeting's resolution being adopted. We have to have three (I think) separate consecutive 'official' meetings in order to clean up the whole mess.

Now I'm really exhausted. But wait!! There is still more to do!!! Henk and I have to figure out a way to explain all of this to the members and deal with any questions about any of the details (I'm sure there will be questions - lots of questions!).

I'm not making this up! We are simply following the law. The really unfortunate thing is that, had the previous executive done their due diligence, everything would still be in place and the whole process could have been dealt with by simply submitting our list of Directors and Executives on an annual basis.Bang HeadBang HeadBang HeadBang Head

Henk and I took over the leadership of the club to get it back on its' feet. Such is the price we pay.

Cheers everybody!!Smile

Dave

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Posted by "JaBear" on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 3:40 AM
“Kia Kaha”, (stand strong) Dave.

Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 5:26 AM

hon30critter

I have to share with you some recent experiences that being a club executive has exposed me to. Those of you who don't want to be club members will enjoy this!

In March we got a letter from the Ontario Government telling us that we were not in compliance with the laws governing non profit organizations. This is the second letter that we have had to that effect. I responded to the first one which we received last fall which asked us to list the club's executive members. Turns out that we didn't understand what they were asking. The club is supposed to have a Board of Directors over and above the Executives. Foolishly we had followed the advice of a member who told us that we didn't need to have Directors. OK, the simple solution was to ask the members to appoint the existing executives (President, Vice President, Secretary and Treasurer) to the Directors positions.

Unfortunately, there was way, way more involved. The club is also supposed to have written by-laws which govern the operation of the club. The by-laws were nowhere to be found so we had to rewrite them, which the President did to the tune of 16 pages of legaleeze! He didn't create that size of a document because he wanted to. All he did was follow the example of another non-profit organization which supposedly had all their ducks in a row. OK, now we have the by-laws so our job will be done as soon as the members agree to appoint the current Executive to the Board of Directors, or so we thought.

The next thing we discovered is that the club needs to have a separate by-law governing the dissolution of the club if that ever happens. OK, so we drew that up. Easy, right?!?

Not so quick. In order to comply with all of the government regulations we have to have a series of separate meetings to ratify all of this. Each meeting has to start with a resolution to do whatever, i.e. appoint the Board of Directors or ratify each by-law and has to end with another resolution to bring the meetings officially to a close. NO, we can't do all the things we need to do in a 'single' meeting! We can have all the meetings on the same night, but each one has to be started and stopped with their own resolutions.

OK, are you exhausted yet? I am!!!

We are not done yet!!! Each of the meetings has to be held in a particular order because if we don't ratify something like the dissolution by-law first, the following meeting can't ratify the other by-laws without the first meeting's resolution being adopted. We have to have three (I think) separate consecutive 'official' meetings in order to clean up the whole mess.

Now I'm really exhausted. But wait!! There is still more to do!!! Henk and I have to figure out a way to explain all of this to the members and deal with any questions about any of the details (I'm sure there will be questions - lots of questions!).

I'm not making this up! We are simply following the law. The really unfortunate thing is that, had the previous executive done their due diligence, everything would still be in place and the whole process could have been dealt with by simply submitting our list of Directors and Executives on an annual basis.Bang HeadBang HeadBang HeadBang Head

Henk and I took over the leadership of the club to get it back on its' feet. Such is the price we pay.

Cheers everybody!!Smile

Dave

 

Mother government, protecting you from yourselves..........

Being a Yank and a conservative, don't get me started........

Sheldon

    

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 6:32 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Being a Yank and a conservative, don't get me started........

Hi Sheldon!

I figured my post (rant) would get your attention!

Every time I have to address the situation I shake my head. We are a group of 22 people who just want to run trains. Give me a break! Unfortunately, if we ignore the rules, the government will recind our corporate status, which will mean that we can't get the necessary insurance to meet our landlord's requirements, which will mean the end of the club. The NMRA club insurance unfortunately doesn't carry much weight up here.

We will hopefully be done with all of this rigmarole by the end of April. Then we can get back to working on the layout.

Dave

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 8:35 AM

Solder question
I'm still a bit ignorant about really good solder technics, but I thought I understood that it was NOT a good idea to use rosin-core solder on electrical circuits??

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 8:56 AM

hon30critter

We decided that the track could be easily straightened and held in place by simply using more nails. The track crew was nailing every 4" which is the spacing of the nail holes in the Atlas track. Additional nails were added at rail joints and turnouts. We are going to put in nails every 2" to see if that solves the problem. Lifting the already laid track to apply latex caulking under it was deemed to be far more work than drilling ties and installing nails. 

Dave

 

I'm not so sure that more nails will solve your problem.

It appears as though it is PRIMARALY changes in the subroadbed (usually wood of some sort) that results in track distortions. And this can occur over a long period of time as the wood adjust to indoor climate.
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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:15 AM

hon30critter

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Being a Yank and a conservative, don't get me started........

 

Hi Sheldon!

I figured my post (rant) would get your attention!

Every time I have to address the situation I shake my head. We are a group of 22 people who just want to run trains. Give me a break! Unfortunately, if we ignore the rules, the government will recind our corporate status, which will mean that we can't get the necessary insurance to meet our landlord's requirements, which will mean the end of the club. The NMRA club insurance unfortunately doesn't carry much weight up here.

We will hopefully be done with all of this rigmarole by the end of April. Then we can get back to working on the layout.

Dave

 

Best way to explain it is just to say you need to do a bunch of weird things to meet goverment reqirements. Just set up a meeting night and put all your ducks in a row. Most members will just be glad that you are the one handling it. You should be able to fix it all in less than an hour. Even the 16 page thing that they proubly require you to read to the members can be prerecorded and spead up on replay and as long as all members say they understood it, it will pass muster (send out printouts before hand if you want this done). I have worked with this bull all my life and many local goverments don't like me because I follow the letter of the law, not the intent. Once had a palm tree in my frount yard I wanted down. We had local tree laws were I lived that said I couldn't cut it down. I resurched (in the days before internet was common) and found out under federal clasification a palm tree was grass, not a tree. Cut it down and nobody could say a thing, federal tops state tops local. Got a bunch of these for buisness too.

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Posted by carl425 on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 9:16 AM

railandsail

Solder question
I'm still a bit ignorant about really good solder technics, but I thought I understood that it was NOT a good idea to use rosin-core solder on electrical circuits??

 

 
Rosin core is specifically made for electrical use.  It's not as effective as acid core, but the acid core is corrosive and rosin is not (although many experts still recommend cleaning the parts after soldering with rosin core).

I have the right to remain silent.  By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.

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Posted by railandsail on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 5:59 PM

Thank you Carl, that's what I was trying to remember that I had read,....not to use acid core solder. Getting older is not all its cracked up to be, particularly memory. (I can't even talk politics any more as I can't remember all of their names, and there are SO MANY crooked ones now.)

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 11:24 PM

Hi Brian:

railandsail
It appears as though it is PRIMARALY changes in the subroadbed (usually wood of some sort) that results in track distortions. And this can occur over a long period of time as the wood adjust to indoor climate.

You are probably right, because the track distortion is less pronounced today then it was two weeks ago. Never the less, there are areas where we haven't installed enough nails yet so that is next on our project list.

As far as layout progress goes, we now have almost all the mainline cork roadbed in place. There are just a few turnout areas left to do. We also finally decided on the bus configuration. We were going to go with a 5 amp command station and a 5 amp booster, but we can't find the booster after our move last summer. We have decided to work with just the command station for now. If it proves to be inadequate we have designed the bus system so that a booster can be added in without having to re-do any wiring. Fortunately, despite changes to the plan, all the wire that we have already installed can stay in place. We also got a bunch of feeder wires connected to the various buses tonight.

Next Tuesday will be the big meeting to appoint the Board of Directors and ratify the by-laws. So far everyone seems to be accepting the reasons for all of this so we don't anticipate too many objections.

Stay tuned!

Dave

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 10, 2018 11:28 PM

“Kia Kaha”, (stand strong) Dave.

Thanks Bear! Things aren't quite so bad yet that I will have to stomp my feet, stick my tongue out and make my eyes bulge!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaugh

Dave

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Posted by hon30critter on Tuesday, April 17, 2018 11:07 PM

Hi gang!!

First, I want to express my gratitude for all the interest that all of you have shown in this thread! The guys at the club are amazed!

Second, I wish to announce that we achieved a major milestone on Tuesday night! We ran our first engine!! Granted it was only on DC and it only went for about 30 ft or so, but it never skipped a beat. So far, so good!!Big SmileSmileYesMusicCakeThumbs Up

And, if you recall my rant about having to appease the government's bureaucratic requirements, we passed all of the necessary resolutions with 100% of the members present voting in favour. Our President, Henk, has done a ton of work to make sure that the club is on solid ground legally, and everyone was very appreciative of his efforts.

As a result of all of this rigmarole I can now add the title of Director to my credentials!! My head is swelling!!!Smile, Wink & GrinLaugh

Dave

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Posted by hon30critter on Thursday, April 19, 2018 7:27 PM

If you have been following this thread you will know that have vented my frustrations about some of the occurrances at the club. Here goes again.

I just had to send a pleasant reminder to all the members to restrict the use of other members' email to club related messages only. Why? Because one of the members was blanketing everyone with inappropriate content. Don't worry Steven Otte, I won't post the naughty message here.

Grumpy

Dave

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Posted by Eastrail11 on Friday, April 20, 2018 11:47 AM

hon30critter

I just had to send a pleasant reminder to all the members to restrict the use of other members' email to club related messages only. Why? Because one of the members was blanketing everyone with inappropriate content. Don't worry Steven Otte, I won't post the naughty message here.

Grumpy

Dave

Wow, that sucks, who knew someone would be so inconsiderate. Do you have any young members of your club? Well, on a lighter note, how is work on the new layout coming? 

~Eastrail

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, April 20, 2018 12:23 PM

Sounds more like someone got a virus, haven't seen that one in years.

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, April 20, 2018 9:50 PM

I just wanted to mention that there is another current thread in the General Discussion area that talks specifically about what industries we could put on the layout. There are lots of good ideas on it.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/269603.aspx?page=1

Dave

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, April 20, 2018 9:51 PM

rrebell
Sounds more like someone got a virus, haven't seen that one in years.

Naw, the inappropriate message was intended, unfortunately. It wasn't real hard core but some of us have moved beyond the school boy stage.

Dave

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Posted by rrebell on Saturday, April 21, 2018 11:19 AM

Did you reprehand them?

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, April 22, 2018 12:43 AM

rrebell
Did you reprehand them?

Did you mean 'reprimand'?

I sent out a politely worded email asking all members to get permission from the intended recipient(s) before sending emails that some people might feel were not appropriate.

The only response I got was from the guy who sent the inappropriate email in the first place. He thought I was asking everyone to get permission from the Executive Committee before sending any emails, so I sorted that out.

Dave

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Posted by rrebell on Sunday, April 22, 2018 9:40 AM

hon30critter

 

 
rrebell
Did you reprehand them?

 

Did you mean 'reprimand'?

I sent out a politely worded email asking all members to get permission from the intended recipient(s) before sending emails that some people might feel were not appropriate.

The only response I got was from the guy who sent the inappropriate email in the first place. He thought I was asking everyone to get permission from the Executive Committee before sending any emails, so I sorted that out.

Dave

 

Sorry, can't spell even though I have a great education. Wish they had spell check on this forum. So yes that is what I ment.

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