hon30critter Hi rrebell: I missed your message when the auction was still on but thanks for taking the time to tell me about it. Actually, the listing would not have done us any good because the seller does not ship to Canada (why anyone would intentionally restrict their potential market by 10% is beyond me), but I will add the 130' turntable to my automatic searches. Maybe we will get lucky! Dave
Hi rrebell:
I missed your message when the auction was still on but thanks for taking the time to tell me about it. Actually, the listing would not have done us any good because the seller does not ship to Canada (why anyone would intentionally restrict their potential market by 10% is beyond me), but I will add the 130' turntable to my automatic searches. Maybe we will get lucky!
Dave
Sorry, it has been a while since I posted any progress shots. Here are a few pictures to bring you up to date:
This shows the peninsula with sub roadbed and risers in place. The section closest to the camera will eventually be turned into a river valley with two bridges spanning the valley. There will be a third rather long bridge on the left raised track. It will start approximately where the yellow glue bottle is and continue to the mid point of that curve. That is the bridge I was asking about in another thread.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/268739.aspx
Another view of the peninsula:
This is the opposite view:
This is the last piece of mainline Homasote being screwed into place:
We have most of the main bus wires installed. We have a good start on track laying. We still have to play with the risers a bit to get the track superelevated. The Homasote has to be bevelled but we will do that after the cork is down so we can get the ditches lined up parallel to the track.
Cheers gang!!
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Mike
We got a bunch more cork laid on Tuesday night. We started the evening with a short seminar on how we wanted the cork to be laid and then we let several guys go to it. The President (Henk) and I then had to keep a close eye on how the work was being done because some of the guys weren't following the instructions carefully enough. Even with close observation, there are several areas where we suspect that there was not enough glue applied to hold the cork properly. We will have to go back and test the adhesion on all of the cork that was laid. However, if we find loose cork we will not correct the problem ourselves. We will pop it loose and have the original installers sand off the dried glue and re-install the cork properly.
Henk and I also had a close look at some of the track that has been laid. What was supposed to be straight track is anything but. However, we will test it before ripping it up. If nothing derails then we will live with a bit of wobbling. We will just pretend that the track has not been maintained as well as it should be.
What was it that I said about herding cats? Please don't read too much negativity into my comments. Most of the work has been done very well, and we are progressing much faster than we thought we would.
Vice President of the Barrie Allandale Railway Modellers.
hon30critter Henk and I also had a close look at some of the track that has been laid. What was supposed to be straight track is anything but. However, we will test it before ripping it up. If nothing derails then we will live with a bit of wobbling. We will just pretend that the track has not been maintained as well as it should be.
But even worse than operational issues has been the aesthethics. A few years back, I bought a mini-cam and strapped it onto a flat car to take some videos of my layout. When I saw the crooked track from an engineer's perspective, I was horrified. I am determined to install laser straight track on the new layout. I would encourage you to correct that problem on your club layout.
Rich
Alton Junction
Two words, steel (or aluminum) yardstick.
Sheldon
What about expansion/contraction issues of straight track with temp changes? Need to leave gaps when laying track during the winter, or summer time well haunt you.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
railandsail What about expansion/contraction issues of straight track with temp changes? Need to leave gaps when laying track during the winter, or summer time well haunt you.
Never had that problem, and I solder all my rail joints.........
Even my current layout, above my detached garage has been trouble free. The building is well insulated, and I do keep the heat at 50 even when I'm not up there. But I don't run the A/C in the summer unless I am up there.
Other layouts in basements have been trouble free.
It is not the track expanding that causes problems, it is benchwork shrinking/contracting. Better benchwork, stable layout room environment, no worries.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL It is not the track expanding that causes problems, it is benchwork shrinking/contracting. Better benchwork, stable layout room environment, no worries. Sheldon
Interesting, I'll have to keep that in my for my planned train shed layout here in Florida
ATLANTIC CENTRAL railandsail What about expansion/contraction issues of straight track with temp changes? Need to leave gaps when laying track during the winter, or summer time well haunt you. Never had that problem, and I solder all my rail joints......... Even my current layout, above my detached garage has been trouble free. The building is well insulated, and I do keep the heat at 50 even when I'm not up there. But I don't run the A/C in the summer unless I am up there. Other layouts in basements have been trouble free. It is not the track expanding that causes problems, it is benchwork shrinking/contracting. Better benchwork, stable layout room environment, no worries. Sheldon
DO agree - make the straights straight, otherwise the wobbles WILL come back to haunt you. In a club setting - member only operating nights will go flawlessly despite the wobble, but at a public show, trains will derail in the wobbly sections all the time. Whatever is mist embarrasing/inconvenient - Murphy knows!
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks for the advice on straightening the track. Henk and I are going in on Saturday morning to assess the situation further and see what needs to be done. We may change our track laying method. We went with nails only until the ballast is installed precisely so we could easily correct any errors if they occurred.
Also, I should mention that the person who is leading the track laying team is no novice. He is using the same methods that he has used on his own layout without problems for more than 20 years.
I have a couple of questions:
How far apart do you install your track nails?
Would caulk make the track less prone to movement?
Thanks
In my opinion caulk is the only way to go. If you used foam under the cork, you can just pin the track in place till the caulk dries, in fact you can pin it in a way that you can test trains and adjust. Sorry but forgot what your construction ways were and answering this on way out the door (wife is not moving very fast as ussual).
hon30critter Thanks for the advice on straightening the track. Henk and I are going in on Saturday morning to assess the situation further and see what needs to be done. We may change our track laying method. We went with nails only until the ballast is installed precisely so we could easily correct any errors if they occurred. Also, I should mention that the person who is leading the track laying team is no novice. He is using the same methods that he has used on his own layout without problems for more than 20 years. I have a couple of questions: How far apart do you install your track nails? Would caulk make the track less prone to movement? Thanks Dave
Dave,
I have used every kind of track, and installed it various ways.
I have hand layed track, used TruScale wood roadbed and spiked my own rail, built turnouts and I have used every manner of commerical track.
And for me it always comes back to flex track glued to homasote roadbed with adheasive caulk.
Why? first because I believe track should be on a solid base, foam, and cork, do not work for me, anywhere in the equation.
Nails verses caulk - nails let the spring in the rail drive the actual position of the track, with the ties glued in place, the rails cannot "push" the track at all.
I let turnouts "float", no caulk, sometimes a nail or two near the middle.
I solder all my rail joints, except obviously the insulated ones. Back it the day we just cut gaps, and that worked with hand layed or wood roadbed. With plastic ties I am more comfortable with plastic rail joiners - ugly or not. Ballast and paint hides a lot of stuff.......
I am currently rebuilding my layout, I considered foam, I played with it a little, I just could not do it.
Disclaimer, I was never able to salvage track from a layout, except in the TruScale wood roadbed days, with flex track I never even considered it. I have salvaged and reused turnouts........and I have salvaged just the rail......I wonder if Atlas would sell me some tie strips?
So for me, gluing with caulk is no different than gluing down wood ties for hand layed track.
But, if my plan works out, the current effort will never get demolished in my lifetime, it is built in modules to allow both relocation and possible expansion or reconfiguration.
rrebellSorry but forgot what your construction ways were
The layout is 1 x 4 box frame construction around the walls and L girder on the peninsula. All benchwork joints in the area where the track is wobbly are glued and screwed. We used 3/4" plywood as a sub base. It is cookie cutter style in some places and solid under the yards, the service area and the industrial areas. On top of the plywood we screwed down 1/2" Homasote, and on top of the Homasote we are installing Midwest cork using carpenter's glue. The plywood is about 5 1/2" wide where the track is crooked (it is double track), and it is on risers every 16 inches (2% grade).
I don't have any problem with using caulk, but I would like to see the track pinned down first so we can make sure there are no kinks etc. If we use caulk, Henk and I will watch very carefully to see that the proper amount is used and that straight edges are used to lay the tangent track .
When we were laying cork on Tuesday we did have to ask a couple of people to use more glue. Since then we have discovered a couple of very small areas where the cork didn't have enough glue but most of it is good.
Henk suspects that there has been some movement somewhere that has caused the track to move. We had looked at the now wobbly track several times after it was installed about three weeks ago and neither of us noticed anything wrong. The wobble is now quite obvious.
We are going in on Saturday to discuss the issue. I'll let you know how we decide to proceed.
Thanks again for your help! The MR forums have played a major role in the construction of the layout.
Trouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface.
rrebellTrouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface.
Well, if the plywood is the problem we're going to have to figure out how to deal with it. We sure as heck ain't gonna do it over!
One thing I haven't mentioned is that we are not soldering the rail joiners, even on the curves. Brian, the gentleman who is leading the track laying team, has already installed track on several curves and there are no kinks at the rail joints,at least so far anyhow. He is offsetting the rail joints by a few inches. He also has a rather unique method of joining the ends of the flex track sections that doesn't require the removal and replacement of any ties. He has used his methods for more than 20 years without any problems.
So far so good. No kinks on the curves. We shall see what the future holds.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Two words, steel (or aluminum) yardstick. Sheldon
Two more words: aluminum channel (or aluminium for our cousins in the Great White North).
I have several scraps of 3"x1/2" channel in various lengths from about 12" to 30" and two long pieces of about 4 feet and 7 feet.
When used with legs pointing down, you can easily straddle adjacent parallel tracks on the main or in yards. Pinching the track section being installed from both sides seems to help as well.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
rrebell Trouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface.
And that is reason to use furniture grade plywood........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell Trouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface. And that is reason to use furniture grade plywood........ Sheldon
I have found some good grade plywood that comes out of Chile,....and I think painting it helps seal it up. I'll have to find that name and post it. Best looking stuff I've seen in a long time.
rrebell ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell Trouble with ply is it expands in all directions and can give you humps on what you thought was a flat surface. And that is reason to use furniture grade plywood........ Sheldon That helps, and not to get me wrong, people have been using ply for as long as I can remember. But we are trying as a whole in the hobby to make things as perfect as possible as far as running quality.
That helps, and not to get me wrong, people have been using ply for as long as I can remember. But we are trying as a whole in the hobby to make things as perfect as possible as far as running quality.
So what kind of benchwork do you use?
railandsail I have found some good grade plywood that comes out of Chile,....and I think painting it helps seal it up. I'll have to find that name and post it. Best looking stuff I've seen in a long time.
Radiata Pinehttps://www.peri.com/en/products/panels/timber-construction/radiata-pine.html The Chilean plywood is ground on both sides and it is very inherently stable. This plywood panel is especially used for construction purposes for floors, roofs and walls, for the furniture and mould construction industry and for high-value packaging. http://www.araucoply.com/informacion2.asp?Submenu=1514&cat=0&fin=0&idioma=44http://chesapeakeplywood.com/radiata-pine-wholesale-plywood/
1x4 box with beaded foam caulked on top. Works great as the foam stays the same size. The foam only shinks if it is new, after awhile it has shrunk the 2% and stays the same size (I personalyy tested this, I am not very trusting).
rrebell 1x4 box with beaded foam caulked on top. Works great as the foam stays the same size. The foam only shinks if it is new, after awhile it has shrunk the 2% and stays the same size (I personalyy tested this, I am not very trusting).
OK, I get that, but I'm not comfortable with foam. I want benchwork I can climb on/lean on if needed. My layout is 3-4 feet deep, the visable track is near the front, but I have staging behind the back drop/under the scenery.
The staging has other access, but again I want to be able to lean/climb as needed.
Do you use switch machines? What kind and how do you attach them? How thick is the foam?
railandsail railandsail I have found some good grade plywood that comes out of Chile,....and I think painting it helps seal it up. I'll have to find that name and post it. Best looking stuff I've seen in a long time. Radiata Pinehttps://www.peri.com/en/products/panels/timber-construction/radiata-pine.html The Chilean plywood is ground on both sides and it is very inherently stable. This plywood panel is especially used for construction purposes for floors, roofs and walls, for the furniture and mould construction industry and for high-value packaging. http://www.araucoply.com/informacion2.asp?Submenu=1514&cat=0&fin=0&idioma=44http://chesapeakeplywood.com/radiata-pine-wholesale-plywood/
I don't see anything special about these products. I can go 4 miles down the road and get high quality birch furniture plywood by the truck load - not at Home Depot..........
And that same guy sells this stuff too.....
Well, we talked about using Baltic Birch 11 or 13 ply but I guess we cheaped out. That's the problem with decisions being made by a committee.
Yes, as I understand things, cabinet play is much more dimentionaly stable and less likely to swell too as long as sealed. That would be the ultimate choise for the boxes boxes.
rrebell Yes, as I understand things, cabinet play is much more dimentionaly stable and less likely to swell too as long as sealed. That would be the ultimate choise for the boxes boxes.
And maybe it is just the environments I have built layouts in, but again, no problems here with serious shrinkage or track buckling.......
My concerns with plywood is getting a good product for a fair price.1) I have a concern with any Chinese plywood as I know that they sometimes (often) put things together in the most expeditious manner with the materials they have at hand at the moment,...including green wood, and poor glue. (don't let inventory get in the way of moving product out the door)2) Green wood and wood from a variety of souces can cause problems. I like the idea of a plywood manufacturer sourcing his wood from his own forest.3) Glues....such a variety, and chances that the best are NOT being used.
Here in FL we have a huge run on plywood during the past 2years of hurricanes, so many stores have tried to source new product,...a lot of it for housing contractors that don't worry so much about the quality as they will just be covering it up with a lot of other 'stuff'. So finding good quality can be a problem.
i was keeping an eye on a stack of promising 'blonde wood' at Lowes. At first it appeared to be very good quality, cabinette grade plywood, but after a while i began to see warping in the stack. I also had a 1/2" sheet in my carport that I got from a friend. Over a period of time it went thru all sorts of warping. Made me rethink using 1/2", and going to 3/4"