JimL OldSchoolScratchbuilder ..... That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. .... Ouch! Jim Lee (geotechnical engineer)
OldSchoolScratchbuilder ..... That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. ....
..... That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. ....
Ouch!
Jim Lee (geotechnical engineer)
Sorry Jim. Lol
richhotrain richhotrain OldSchoolScratchbuilder @rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops. LOL Rich Water Level Route That's the boat I'm in. Looking forward to more. Though I should not have been drinking coffee when I read the Rice Krispies in the toilet post. That was a close one! I'm afraid that I am responsible for that reply from Old School Scratch Builder. I can no longer look at my powder room in the same way that I used to. Rich
richhotrain OldSchoolScratchbuilder @rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops. LOL Rich
OldSchoolScratchbuilder @rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops.
@rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops.
LOL
Rich
Water Level Route That's the boat I'm in. Looking forward to more. Though I should not have been drinking coffee when I read the Rice Krispies in the toilet post. That was a close one!
That's the boat I'm in. Looking forward to more. Though I should not have been drinking coffee when I read the Rice Krispies in the toilet post. That was a close one!
I'm afraid that I am responsible for that reply from Old School Scratch Builder. I can no longer look at my powder room in the same way that I used to.
Mike
Alton Junction
JoeinPA I'm not so sure that lack of replies indicates lack of interest in this instance. I think that a lot of us are interested and are following to see how this progresses. I for one hope that the OP continues to post since I want to see the product. Let's not be so critical and allow the OP some room to show us his efforts. Joe
I'm not so sure that lack of replies indicates lack of interest in this instance. I think that a lot of us are interested and are following to see how this progresses. I for one hope that the OP continues to post since I want to see the product. Let's not be so critical and allow the OP some room to show us his efforts.
Joe
OldSchoolScratchbuilder. My great grandfather was a sleeping car porter on the Intercollonial Railway run between Halifax and Montreal.
Canadian Sleeping Car Porters
https://humanrights.ca/blog/sleeping-car-porters
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
mobilman44 The last I checked, this is a Model RAILROAD forum, and not a blog on geology or physics or metalurgy. Surely there is a forum out there that would be much more interested in your project - as evidenced by the lack of comments from the other members of this forum. I'm reminded of a saying a VP once told me..... "I really don't care about your labor pains, just show me the baby" !
The last I checked, this is a Model RAILROAD forum, and not a blog on geology or physics or metalurgy. Surely there is a forum out there that would be much more interested in your project - as evidenced by the lack of comments from the other members of this forum.
I'm reminded of a saying a VP once told me..... "I really don't care about your labor pains, just show me the baby" !
All three subjects have been touched upon in Model Railrod magazines over the years. Geology is particually relevent, although beautiful model railroads have been built without detailed knowledge of it.
Old School
I enjoy seeing your ideas and work. Lots of original thinking, but so far not much I could actually use. (I've also enjoyed another original thinker, the Broadway Lion, who is at the opposite end of the complexity spectrum.) Starting with wood, rocks and F=MA, derive a model railroad; what a concept. The engineer in me appreciates all your little experiments to prove that these wild ideas actually work. When one has time constraints, commercially available components are the normal solution. But building a model railroad is often just a journey and I enjoy your explanations of a road less taken.
Grinnell
PS: Rice crispies as sonar chaff, I love it, what a Hoot!
I am going to build the prototype CN Industrial railbed starting today so I'll post that part of my layout in the prototype forum. If you are not interested in modelling the real CN railbed please don't bother reading my posts there.
Old School,
I should clarify...... I do not find your thread objectionable per se. Your photography is quite good, and your methodology is unique and somewhat interesting. I guess I'm just anxious to see some results - some actual layout progress.
Like I wrote, I am "history" as far as this thread is concerned.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
superbe But I have also enjoyed your postings finding them interesting, educational, and yes sometimes humorous. You are certainly not the average “joe off the block”. There are over 4,600 views of your posts so I’m not alone.
But I have also enjoyed your postings finding them interesting, educational, and yes sometimes humorous. You are certainly not the average “joe off the block”. There are over 4,600 views of your posts so I’m not alone.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder mobilman44 I guess I'm just attracted to the unusual, out of place, and blatant space consuming threads. I'll try to stay away................. wow! I certainly would never say that about anyone's work. if your goal is for me to leave, then you have just succeeded. Final post - enjoy modelling everyone!
mobilman44 I guess I'm just attracted to the unusual, out of place, and blatant space consuming threads. I'll try to stay away.................
I guess I'm just attracted to the unusual, out of place, and blatant space consuming threads. I'll try to stay away.................
wow! I certainly would never say that about anyone's work. if your goal is for me to leave, then you have just succeeded. Final post - enjoy modelling everyone!
Sorry to hear you are leaving.
I’ve read richhotrain and mobileman44 posts over the years learning from both and respect them as forum members.
Why don’t those of you who find these posts objectionable use the unsubscribe button.
Just My " target=""> Worth
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
why are you reading it then. Just ignore it until the baby pops out. If the moderators want me to leave, I'll do that no problem.
@rich My wife says similar things to me. Like the day she came home and I was recording the sounds of Rice Krispies in the toilet - had all the audio gear rigged up. The main result of my acoustic analysis proved that this cereal does have snaps, crackles, and pops. I got some snickers from managers when I presented this experiment at a defence seminar - they stopped laughing when I successfully used the results in a sonar experiment on a sea trial in the Gulf of Mexico!
Just looked up a related problem in a first year mechanics text. Problem: A car is travelling at a speed of 55 mi/hr along a banked highway having a radius of curvature of 500 ft. At what angle should the road be banked in order that a zero friction force is needed for the car to go around this curve? Answer: All the formulas in the chapter will provide the solution. In my case, the friction in this problem is replaced by the vertical force component on a spike versus how strong the spike is anchored in the white birch.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder As a physicist, I want to know what force is acting on the rail and 'spikes'. That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. I'm not using real spikes, I'm using tiny segments (few milimeters) of staples and so there is no rule of thumb. So when my heaviest locomotive rounds a bend at speed, will the tiny staples give way? I'm going to know the answer before I use the staples.
As a physicist, I want to know what force is acting on the rail and 'spikes'. That's what physicists do - we crave to understand the unknown - engineers on the other hand use their centuries old rules of thumb. I'm not using real spikes, I'm using tiny segments (few milimeters) of staples and so there is no rule of thumb. So when my heaviest locomotive rounds a bend at speed, will the tiny staples give way? I'm going to know the answer before I use the staples.
I'm glad that I don't live next door to you......or do I?
I better check.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder I have thousands of rusty staples between 30 and 60 years old that can be cut and installed on every tie, using my drill press to cut fine holes. Piece of cake in principle. I can do all the centrifugal force and weight calculations - I'm a physicist and this is a first year university problem easily solved!
I have thousands of rusty staples between 30 and 60 years old that can be cut and installed on every tie, using my drill press to cut fine holes. Piece of cake in principle. I can do all the centrifugal force and weight calculations - I'm a physicist and this is a first year university problem easily solved!
The only forces involved in the calculation of required spike strength, numbers, and distribution are locomotive/car weight (gravity) and the velocity-dependent normal component of centrifugal force at the contact points between the track and wheels. For curves, CN has a spec for rail heights (inside vs outside). This reduces the centrifugal component depending on the slope - also easy to calculate.
Scratch, I'm talking about designing spikes that "must be strong enough to support the tracks and the weights of locomotives and heavy loads, must not crack the white birch ties, and must work on curves where centrifugal forces are encountered".
This is HO scale modeling, not a real railroad. Either HO spikes will support the loads or else the HO scale locomotives and rolling stock won't be able to deal with the weight of the loads.
You are overthinking things when you get to the point that you are trying to design HO scale spikes to support such loads.
richhotrain Aren't you overcomplicating things? Just a bit? Rich
Aren't you overcomplicating things? Just a bit?
Nope. Got the wood, got the rails, got the sub-ballast, got the ballast, have the CN specs and drawings, band saw will arrive next week, and several ideas for spikes. Have all the track wiring components including solderless contacts. Already cutting the rail bed into the foam following the CN specs regarding shoulder angles, bedding width and depth dimensions, etc. Now I truly am learning about real track!
OldSchoolScratchbuilder Finally, a real challenge! HO scale spike is about 1.8 mm long below the head and 0.18 mm square. Criteria: must be able to make a lot of them easily, they must be strong enough to support the tracks and the weights of locomotives and heavy loads, must not crack the white birch ties, and must work on curves where centrifugal forces are also encountered.
Finally, a real challenge! HO scale spike is about 1.8 mm long below the head and 0.18 mm square. Criteria: must be able to make a lot of them easily, they must be strong enough to support the tracks and the weights of locomotives and heavy loads, must not crack the white birch ties, and must work on curves where centrifugal forces are also encountered.
Just if you are wondering, I have 5 grades of Walton shale. Grade 1 is ideal for gravel and concrete filler, and Grades 4 and 5 for ore loads and scenery construction. Grade 1 can pass through a 1-mm-dia sieve hole. Here is a picture of Grade 1.
The CN ballast thickness from the top of the sub-ballast section to the bottom of the ties should be 2.6 mm. I will use Grade 2 Walton shale that will pass through a 2-mm-dia sieve hole but not a 1-mm-dia sieve hole.
According to CN's "Typical Cross Section Detail" dated 15 November 2015, I will need a sub-ballast thickness of 3.5 mm. I will use Grade 3 processed shale from Walton, Nova Scotia. This grade must pass through a 2-mm-dia sieve hole size. The nominal thickness of Grade 3 particles is 1 mm. I collect, crush, and sift all of my Walton shale.
In keeping with the terminology used in the CN industrial engineering specs for tracks and Plasti-Fab Ltd., my layout subgrade is made from 3/4" moulded expanded polystyrene foam plastic (EPS foam). The specific product is PlastiSpan handi-pac Insulation. Some Home Depot stores carry it. I like it because it is cut into sizes compatible with my Costco folding tables that support the entire layout.
Victoria Harbour white birch logs are cut. Need the band saw now.
This one I believe is heulandite (Na,K)Ca4[Al9Si27O72].24H2O but I need to investigate a little more to be sure. Haven't seen such a large sample before! ... Confirmed!
There are lots of zeolite crystals inside cavities in the basalt. Eventually new cavities are exposed as the tides reshape the cliffs twice a day. These two types of zeolites were exposed today. This is stilbite NaCa2Al5Si13O36.14H2O, our provincial mineral symbol.
The Bay of Fundy coastline below my property features basalt cliffs. The tides gouge out the base of these cliffs causing rockfalls and forming cool caves.
We have lots of white birch (Betula papyrifera Marsh.) on our property and birch is on the list of hardwoods for crossties. Brought some home to experiment with once my band saw arrives next week (hopefully).
As I have previously mentioned, for the Bay of Fundy I have to pick a point in the tidal cycle to model the coastlines and tidal rivers in my layout. I chose low tide. When I get around to modelling fishing boats, at low tide they will be sitting on the ocean floor like these in Harbourville near my property in Victoria Harbour, Nova Scotia this morning. You can see how high the water gets during high tides by the colouration on the wharf walls.
richhotrain I'm telling ya Scratch, handlay your own track, and while you're at it, get rid of those awful non-prototypical Atlas bumper posts and build your own.
I'm telling ya Scratch, handlay your own track, and while you're at it, get rid of those awful non-prototypical Atlas bumper posts and build your own.
Bumper posts already gone - not to specs in the CN documents. Man you guys are almost as bad as government managers - well, not quite that bad. ;)
mobilman44 Amen!!!
Amen!!!
You win! Just got back. Very rainy but still productive. Will update once I dry out.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder Completed measurements on Code 100 Atlas ties. The cross-sectional dimensions meet the minimum required by the CN Engineering Specifications for Industrial Tracks, but fall short by over a millimeter in length. Consequently, I will not use these plastic ties. So, I'm headed out on a road trip to my Bay of Fundy property, 14.5 acres of farmland and forest, to bring home a few samples of hardwood for experimentation.
Completed measurements on Code 100 Atlas ties. The cross-sectional dimensions meet the minimum required by the CN Engineering Specifications for Industrial Tracks, but fall short by over a millimeter in length. Consequently, I will not use these plastic ties. So, I'm headed out on a road trip to my Bay of Fundy property, 14.5 acres of farmland and forest, to bring home a few samples of hardwood for experimentation.
In preparation to build custom tracks, I have downloaded and read all of the Canadian National (CN) regulations and guidelines for industrial trackage. As much as HO-scale will allow, I will adhere to CN's Engineering Specifications for Industrial Tracks, November 15, 2015 Revision. Getting right some serious now (in Maritimer speak).
@tomikawaTT I have chosen low tide for my model so any man-made increase will still be so far away from the high water mark that it won't be seen (LOL). I think if I live long enough, I might have to account for sea level increases due to polar ice melting.
Going to need more grinding/sanding capability so today I purchased this combo power tool. Will set it up this weekend.
Love the specifics of modeling the geology. I just wish my modeling focus was a short drive down the road instead on the far side of a wide ocean (and a wider currency gap.) Of course, igneous rock doesn't lend itself to modeling the way shale does.
The auto-carloader is giving me a lot of ideas for circuits to automate the live-load track at my end-of-the-railroad colliery. Extending the time-to-load circuit to handle four different sizes of cars and multiple sequential loads should provide me with a few hours (days?) of amusement.
I especially appreciate the idea of experimenting to see what can be done. The results are sure to be better than the same amount of time spent collecting opinions from strangers, most of whom are unfamiliar with the territory and with dealing with native-to-the-place materials that don't come out of (Manufacturer) plastic bags or boxes.
Just one question. What will you do when (if) the Bay of Fundy is turned into a tidal power basin? Model the higher water level?
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
A 3/4"-thick foam sub-base sits on the wooden base. A second foam working base will sit over this one and thats where the hopper-loader demonstrator will be built.
A 2 1/2" high, 1/4" thick, 15" x 18 1/2" wooden frame fits around the outside of the metal brackets with the inside area being the workspace. The smaller area in the front is for tools, paints, and other miscellaneous items needed to do the work.
I have decided on a way ahead with my tracks. I will custom build a Code 100 hybrid track. So, I need to move my hopper loader demonstrator from a simple piece of foam to my larger workstation. I built this workstation so it can easily be moved around. The red and black 3/4" plywood base is 16" x 23 3/4". Four metal brackets are screwed in as shown.
After some consideration I have decided to support the motor inside the shale rock using ties from disassembled brass HO track. Here are two pics to illustrate.
Now that I have researched the bumper/hopper concept on the testbed in my electronics lab, I will refine the electronics wiring work by adding the concept to the demonstrator. As I write I can hear a distant train whistle from the Halifax Harbour direction through the light shower - all the inspiration I need.
Sketch of the bumper impact surface concept. This is just one simple example of how my trains will interact with the scenery and structures for automated animation and special effects.
A strip of the copper decal I used on the bumper.
Rather than use a micro-switch mounted on the impact surface of the bumper (the part of the bumper hit by the hopper's coupler), I built a switch using two small pieces of conducting copper decal separated by a small horizontal gap on the bumper's impact surface. Then I changed the coupler on the hopper from plastic to metal. Carefully adjusted the coupler height so it would touch both pieces of decal to complete the circuit - the coupler is part of the electric circuit as long as it remains in contact with the bumper.
Forgot to mention where the resistor is located - in a small recess under the bumper.
When the demonstrator is completed, no wires will be visible and the LED will look like a real signal light. Dogs woke me up - back to sleep now.
As soon as I move the locomotive forward, breaking the contact between the hopper and bumper, the light goes off and the motor stops. Works perfectly but is quite tricky to wire.
When the locomotive backs the hopper into the bumper, the brake on the Kato power supply is applied when the pilot light is lit and the motor starts turning (eventually, the screw conveyor on the top surface of the shale outcrop begins to turn loading the hopper with real HO scale ore. All three bays loaded at the same time and accounting for the center bay being smaller for this hopper.)
When the hopper is not in contact with the end-of-track bumper, the pilot light is off and so is the motor. Note that three wires come out from under the bumper since I am using a parallel circuit design.
Took several hours but I made the train 'talk' to the motor in the rock. Sounds like a good title for a song! This is a quick sketch of the circuit I have used in the past to do the same thing between a Lego train and external Lego motor - it was much easier because they were significantly bigger. The voltage and resistor values were quite different too. Basically, when the train closes the switch, the pilot light turns on and the motor starts. The motor is very quiet so the pilot light is important.
Hot pastrami sandwich??? I thought it was a cowpie!
Another beautiful spring morning, definitely back to the Bay of Fundy while the rock falls are fresh and the tide cycle is just right! Another few days and the tides will not allow me access to the beaches during the day for a few weeks. Headed to Baxters Harbour this time and my wife is coming along because there are two antique stores along the way. She will help me gather scenic material at my favourite hobby shop - the Bay of Fundy.
Very different cliff compositions here. Picture from my field trip there 3 years ago at high tide.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder Field trip to the Bay of Fundy today to search for near HO-scale sedimentary cliffs with layered rock faces. This is the best time of year because there are many new rock falls after the winter season. Found many great samples that will not require any additional work like the one in this picture.
Field trip to the Bay of Fundy today to search for near HO-scale sedimentary cliffs with layered rock faces. This is the best time of year because there are many new rock falls after the winter season. Found many great samples that will not require any additional work like the one in this picture.
The optimum series resistance required for longlife operation of an LED depends on the source voltage and the LED colour. I am using a red LED for the pilot light on this demonstrator and only a few volts are needed for the motor in the rock so it's an easy calulation to find the closest standard resistor value.
Second layer of shale railbed is dry and fixed in place. Before the tracks and ballast are installed on this hopper loader demonstrator, every track (2 in this case) will be wired using mill-max contact probes. These spring-loaded contacts were designed to maintain electrical contact in vibration environments. You can see four of them next to my favourite HO scale seagull.
In 1995 I was invited to write a review article on piezoelectric materials for sensors and actuators with the CEO of Sensor Technology Ltd. and one of his engineers. We were chosen as world leaders in this field. The reference is as follows if you are interested in piezo materials:
"Piezoelectric Materials and their Applications," D.F. Jones, S.E. Prasad, and J.B. Wallace, in Advanced Ceramic Materials: Applications of Advanced Materials in a High-Tech Society I, Key Engineering Materials Volumes 122-124, Ed. Hamid Mostaghaci, Trans Tech Publications, Switzerland, 1996, pp. 71-143.
My layout will appear old school on the outside, but hidden inside will be many high tech solutions.
The Code 100 is for the small demo hopper loader and layout planning. Haven't made a choice yet. I get as much Atlas code 100 track as I want for free so I use it to waste permanently on demonstrators like this metal scrapyard. Have piles of the old brass track as well, which I cut up for the brass metal. Can't use code 70 with my spring-loaded solderless contacts. Code 70 is not an option. Using salty West Jeddore driftwood was suggested - that's asking for electrical trouble. The inside and underside of the rails, and the ties, will have embedded sensors and actuators in them for many unique special effects and animations (eg. sparks). My final track selection will depend on the results from all of my demonstrators. Sensors include Hall effect, acoustic, electromagnetic, optical, and IR to name some examples. I developed sensors and actuators for the Canadian Navy and our allies during my career as a defence physicist.
I'm having a hard time reconciling the fact that you would go to so much effort to put down rocks and ballast and groundcover, and yet use sectional track - and code 100 to boot!
To be consistent with your ground cover efforts, I would suggest handlaid code 70 track, which of course means putting in individual ties and rails and spikes. Of course using a rock base (most MRs use cork or homosote or manufactured rubber type roadbeds) is going to give you a heck of a challenge in getting the trackage aligned and level and solidly in place.
I'm not saying it can't be done, or even shouldn't be done, but the fact is, "the wheel has already been invented and improved upon many times over".
Railbed is ready for a second layer of particulate Walton shale. Getting ready for a field trip to Cape Blomidon area to take photos, and collect scenery materials. Later ...
The course shale track bed that I installed yesterday is now firmly in place. I applied Scenic Cement from Woodland Scenics and as you can see in the picture, nothing falls off the foam when I hold it vertical or upsidedown. Will apply a finer shale particle size today and do the same spray down.
richhotrain Since you are an old school scratch builder, have you considered handlaying your own track? You could use that West Jeddore driftwood for the ties. Rich
Since you are an old school scratch builder, have you considered handlaying your own track? You could use that West Jeddore driftwood for the ties.
As a professed scratch builder, how difficult would it be to master the basic skills required to build your own track? With West Jeddore driftwood quite plentiful, it could be used to make the ties. For all of the other projects on our retired physicist friend's list, I think that this would be the coolest part of the layout.
Here is a link to the Fast Tracks web site:
http://www.handlaidtrack.com/
I have built miniature radio transmitters in the past. Going to try and use pyrite particles to make an operational HO-scale ground plane antenna for a high frequency radio transmitter. If successful, I'll build a small radio station on the layout and receive on one of my antique radios. Broadcast news will be about the mines/quarries and train yards/stations in the layout.
Careful hand-crushing yield for pyrite/shale was nearly 100%. Four grades by particle sizes were separated. Five pieces were crushed, the rest this long holiday weekend.
Lots of pyrites were collected this morning. These samples will be crushed, separated from the shale, then used to make conductive ground cover for special effects. They have been cleaned and are drying in the heat of the day.
View from another angle.
Also took lots of photos and measurements of the amazing rock face under the lighthouse to model as scenery.
Took detailed measurements of the inside and outside of the Walton lighthouse this morning. It will be scratchbuilt using West Jeddore driftwood and will appear in the prototype forum after I have my new bandsaw delivered and installed at the end of the month.
Field trip to Walton this morning to take photos, measure cliff heights, and more, for scenic development on my layout Panel 3. My field equipment for this work includes a very accurate topographical map, a hand-held laser rangefinder with a 230' range, a hand-held Garmin GPS, my LowePro backpack filled with geology equipment, high-end waterproof Bushnell 7x50 binoculars with built in bearing readout (I used one of these at sea for many years), and a sketchbook. High tide is right about now, so receeding water when I arrive will be perfect for many hours on the coastline. Weather is ideal.
All trackbeds in my layout begin with a Cheverie clay base. On top of the base I install large slabs of Walton shale and form it with sloping sides and flat top. This is shown in the picture. The shale is fixed in place with Scenic Cement by Woodland Scenics. Note that the motor is resting on a wooden platform made from West Jeddore driftwood. I buy the motors on Amazon.
By wiring every piece of track, I can use the connections for diagnostics or I can change my driving point to any piece of track on the entire layout. All electrical connections to each track will be solderless using spring-loaded micro contacts (about 3 mm length when not compressed). They are called contact probes and I buy them online from Mouser Electronics.
My electronics laboratory has everything I need to create unique wiring solutions for my entire layout. I have been designing electronic circuits since 1976 when I joined the Canadian military. Electronics was my job.
I use a very precise Kato Power Pack for the testbed tracks (DC), a top of the line switching mode DC power supply for auxilliary devices, for example, this motor-in-the-rock only needs 2 volts max. The motor is a low-voltage, low-rpm and high-torque design owing in part to it's gearbox. On the layout, every piece of track is wired so for the demo I will have two electric lines and one electromechanical line. I am working with a live load of gypsum from Windsor, NS from my real layout area.
Sun and heat of the day solidified the clay in 2 hours! Ready to make the train talk to the rock this evening instead of tomorrow. Next stop is my electronics lab on the second floor.
zstripe richhotrain Oh well, nothing like having your questions not answered. Good luck with whatever it is you are doing. Rich I remain...''The Shadow''. heh, heh! Frankie
richhotrain Oh well, nothing like having your questions not answered. Good luck with whatever it is you are doing. Rich
I remain...''The Shadow''. heh, heh!
Frankie
richhotrainOh well, nothing like having your questions not answered. Good luck with whatever it is you are doing. Rich
Did You get the ''brush-off'' there ''grasshopper"?
OldSchoolScratchbuilder So far, this is mostly about rock collecting expeditions and little else about actually building a model railroad layout. In one of your earlier threads, you made reference to "lifetime testing" and when I asked what that meant, I never got a response from you. Now, you make a statement like "build an HO rock face, and pass electricity right through it to run an electromechanical system for animation". What does this mean? You suggest that interest may be low because no one has built a live layout before. What does that mean? What is a live layout? My only point is that the all of this could be more meaningful to other modelers if we had a better sense of what all of this means and how you plan to operate this layout. Rich You lack patience grasshopper.
So far, this is mostly about rock collecting expeditions and little else about actually building a model railroad layout. In one of your earlier threads, you made reference to "lifetime testing" and when I asked what that meant, I never got a response from you. Now, you make a statement like "build an HO rock face, and pass electricity right through it to run an electromechanical system for animation". What does this mean? You suggest that interest may be low because no one has built a live layout before. What does that mean? What is a live layout? My only point is that the all of this could be more meaningful to other modelers if we had a better sense of what all of this means and how you plan to operate this layout. Rich
So far, this is mostly about rock collecting expeditions and little else about actually building a model railroad layout. In one of your earlier threads, you made reference to "lifetime testing" and when I asked what that meant, I never got a response from you.
Now, you make a statement like "build an HO rock face, and pass electricity right through it to run an electromechanical system for animation". What does this mean?
You suggest that interest may be low because no one has built a live layout before. What does that mean? What is a live layout?
My only point is that the all of this could be more meaningful to other modelers if we had a better sense of what all of this means and how you plan to operate this layout.
You lack patience grasshopper.
Good luck with whatever it is you are doing.
Concealing sensors and surveillance equipment inside beach rocks and driftwood is technology that my company developed - I owned the company. This is also one of the reasons I bought 14.5 acres of prime land on the Bay of Fundy with deeded access to the rocky beach with huge cliffs, caves, and lots more. Details on how the hopper communicates with the rock are proprietary to my company and cannot be disclosed. That being said, you will see it work.
If you Google Access Nova Scotia's Registry of Joint Stocks and search for Intrinsic Defence and Intelligence Enterprises you will find my company. Once I developed successful products, I requested the company be revoked.
Here is the motor and gearbox that will be mounted inside the rock. This motor will operate from a hopper car on the adjacent track. When a hopper car is in the right location, the motor will activate a screw conveyor mounted on top of the rock and automatically fill the hopper with ore. A pilot light will come on when the hopper is in the right spot. When the hopper is moved slightly by the locomotive, the light turns off and the motor and conveyor stop.
While the clay hardens overnight, I am preparing the rock. For the train to communicate with the rock, I needed to carefully cut through it. Shale is fragile so only loosening a handful of layer pieces was a success and will be trivial to reassemble (just like a jigsaw puzzle).
richhotrain OldSchoolScratchbuilder If the interest level is low it's because no one has built a live layout before as far as I can tell from my growing collection of modelling literature. all wiring will lay between the foam layer you see and the live ground cover. OldSchoolScratchbuilder Alright, for the skeptics I will take a brief detour from my geographical layout to illustrate a few novel techniques required in my live layout. I am going to take this rock and clay from the beach in Cheverie, build an HO rock face, and pass electricity right through it to run an electromechanical system for animation. I'll be back when it's complete. I'm not so sure that "skeptics" is the right word. It may be more a sense of bewilderment about what you are trying to accomplish and how you are going about it. Your threads have plenty of views but very few replies - - - the "curiosity factor", as I call it. Other forum members are checking in to see where this is all heading. So far, this is mostly about rock collecting expeditions and little else about actually building a model railroad layout. In one of your earlier threads, you made reference to "lifetime testing" and when I asked what that meant, I never got a response from you. Now, you make a statement like "build an HO rock face, and pass electricity right through it to run an electromechanical system for animation". What does this mean? You suggest that interest may be low because no one has built a live layout before. What does that mean? What is a live layout? My only point is that the all of this could be more meaningful to other modelers if we had a better sense of what all of this means and how you plan to operate this layout. Rich
OldSchoolScratchbuilder If the interest level is low it's because no one has built a live layout before as far as I can tell from my growing collection of modelling literature. all wiring will lay between the foam layer you see and the live ground cover.
If the interest level is low it's because no one has built a live layout before as far as I can tell from my growing collection of modelling literature.
all wiring will lay between the foam layer you see and the live ground cover.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder Alright, for the skeptics I will take a brief detour from my geographical layout to illustrate a few novel techniques required in my live layout. I am going to take this rock and clay from the beach in Cheverie, build an HO rock face, and pass electricity right through it to run an electromechanical system for animation. I'll be back when it's complete.
Alright, for the skeptics I will take a brief detour from my geographical layout to illustrate a few novel techniques required in my live layout. I am going to take this rock and clay from the beach in Cheverie, build an HO rock face, and pass electricity right through it to run an electromechanical system for animation. I'll be back when it's complete.
I'm not so sure that "skeptics" is the right word. It may be more a sense of bewilderment about what you are trying to accomplish and how you are going about it. Your threads have plenty of views but very few replies - - - the "curiosity factor", as I call it. Other forum members are checking in to see where this is all heading.
You lack patience grasshopper. :)
Finally, and this is the artistic fun, I applied the clay and will allow it to dry overnight. I'll be back tomorrow on this aspect of the layout.
Instead of cork, I will use Cheverie clay under all track beds. Cork has a unique Poisson's ratio of 0 which makes it a good vibration damper - the clay will do almost as well. I used cork from time to time during my career designing high power naval sonars to detect quiet submarines (active anti-submarine warfare). So, I don't need to buy any cork.
It's important to know my geology if I am going to do clever things on my layout, including wiring. This rock was selected for a reason. It is shale and has planar cleavage lines (i.e., is laminated by natural processes). This means I can pry it apart into nice smooth layers. I can now embed electronics between the layers, or even inside the shale which is soft enough to hollow out.
All of my surface objects and structures of significance will sit on bedrock of some kind from my real layout area. All bedrock will be sunk into the foam, including all track beds. I use a heat knife to easily carve up the foam.
As far as benchwork goes, my entire layout sits on folding tables from Costco. That's it! The 3/4" foam (about 5.5' HO - people height) that sits on the folding tables is only available at Home Depot in Nova Scotia, and not all of their stores carry it. Everytime I see it on the shelf, I buy it up. I'll continue to do this until I have enough for my entire basement layout area plus spares. You can see a small piece of this foam in the picture.
The top surface of the foam is nominally sea level for my entire layout. The rock and two track sections will be installed on this electrical wiring demonstrator.
mobilman44 When will you get down to benchwork and tracklaying and wiring and such? The geology is fine, but this forum section is about layouts - building them and the problems that arise. I'm a rock collector too - and appreciate the draw, but I do believe this thread would be better received if you talked of building an actual layout.
When will you get down to benchwork and tracklaying and wiring and such?
The geology is fine, but this forum section is about layouts - building them and the problems that arise. I'm a rock collector too - and appreciate the draw, but I do believe this thread would be better received if you talked of building an actual layout.
you are seeing it built in real time. Flat foam panels on tables - very simple with no bench work. Above this foam layer will be all rock and minerals - no plaster, no cork, no plastic (except trains, tracks, vehicles and figures). All mountains, hills, cliffs, roads, valleys, mines, quarries are real rock and minerals from my real layout area.
All wood is driftwood from West Jeddore no wood from hobby shops. All loads are real rock and minerals from the layout area. Tracks are being placed right now, and trains will run on them as they expand.
The length of my layout from the Walton lighthouse to the Kempt Shore church is now 14 ft 2 in. This is perfect for my basement because it leaves me about four feet to walk around this section which is at the top of my basement area that I posted earlier in this thread - the dimension is 15 ft in the diagram.
Off to play my acoustic solo set at a great Halifax waterfront pub and grill tonight. Have a nice evening everyone.
Mastodon bones have been found in several Nova Scotia locations since about 1833. In 1989 tusks and other pieces of bone were found near the gypsum quarry close to Windsor, which is an important railway and gypsum location in my layout. In 1991, however, lots of bones from a mastodon that had fallen into a gypsum sinkhole filled with clay made big news. This site was at the currently operating National Gypsum Canada quarry in Milford, not far from my real layout area.
Two gypsum quarries operated in Kempt Shore, Nova Scotia in the past and I am bringing them back into operation in the layout on Panel 5. One of the quarries is flooded today and used by the community as a recreational park with warning signs about sinkholes. This is where I will have a mastodon dig by a team of paleontologists.
There is an old church in Kempt Shore that I will model as well. The rail lines from Walton, Cambridge, Cheverie, and Cheverie Mountain will turn south along the Avon River on/near this panel.
I'll be posting my next panel later today after I visit the Museum of Natural History in Halifax. Need to get a bit of Nova Scotia mastodon history for this panel.
fender777This is like a course in geology which I love' Cant wait to see it come alive. Thanks for showing all the rocks.
The first time I have ever seen this mineral. It appears to be pyrophyllite [Al2Si4O10(OH)2], in other words, aluminum silicate. All of these minerals will help determine the number of processing/research facilities/structures at the ficticious Cheverie Mountain Mineral Production and Research Facility, the largest rail service complex in the entire layout. One rolling stock car I will require based on these finds, is a sulphuric acid tanker, plus an unloading bay.
Also found siderite (iron carbonate FeCO3).
Field trip to Cheverie to search for rarer minerals. Specifically, more rare than gypsum [CaSO4 2H2O], barite (BaSO4) and pyrite (FeS2). Found manganese oxide dendrites so we can add this to the list of samples to find for the layout.
It's also nice to work with the real HO hoppers that I'll be using in this area of the layout. Live loads in these cars include gypsum, barite, shale, and coal.
Have a bit more space in the basement now. Here is a 12 ft by 29 inch layout section consisting of five panels - the fifth just added. This temporary layout area will make it easier to plan the tracks. So far the layout is 2-D but eventually there will be hills, valleys and cliffs.
After three days of reorganizing the basement storage areas (a lot of 'stuff' has got to go this spring) I am almost ready to resume the layout planning. Given the limited financial resources available for this project, I have made a DC/DCC decision that will impact the layout design - it will require more complex thinking on my part.
I am going to have two independent tracks, one DC and one DCC. I have been buying up DC locomotives at great prices (good used and never used), but have limited my spending on DCC diesels. The DCC will provide all the great sounds around the yards and down the mainlines, but the DC cars will all be high end products (savings by not going 100% DCC). For example, I have my order in for all twelve road numbers of the Rapido grey CN-noodle 3800 cu. ft. cylindrical hoppers instead of two more expensive DCC locomotives.
So, will be back soon with more layout panels.
Doing a little research on building real rock cuts at scale based on my collection of shale plates and photos.
There are some excellent fossils in the Cheverie shale cliffs so I'll also include a paleontology team and a fossil dig along the layout shoreline.
Another field trip to Cheverie this morning. It was sunny, warm and low tide - perfect. Took lots of photos of shale cliffs. In this picture the shale thicknesses extend all the way down to HO scale. I'll be able to make my own real shale cliffs and rock cuts for roads and tracks.
Panel 4 lies SE of Walton (Panel 3 shown as well). To the NE is a wind farm. There is currently one new wind turbine in the real area, but more are likely to follow so I'll model three or four of them. Dresser Minerals Road is the way into the Walton open pit and shaft mines. A track crosses this road and will be used as one of several staging areas for ore hopper cars. Part of the open pit, with elevation contours, is shown. The rest of the mining area, including the structures and more rail, will be on another panel SE of Panel 4.
Panel 3 is Walton, one of the busy ends of the Cheverie Mountain layout. Driving into Walton on the 215 one passes the wilderness road that leads to the now abandoned barite open pit and shaft mine. I will be bringing this facility back to life with lots of animation. A bridge crosses the tidal Walton River where the 215 swings left and then off the layout to East Walton in the NE. There are two barite silos full of processed barite from the old mill that used to operate here - the silos are all that is left. A new mill will be built on the layout but not here. I am friends with the owner of the silos and have full access to the interior of the silos so I can model them. The owner has also allowed me to collect barite from inside for my layout (she helped me collect it herself).
A small road leads up to a lighthouse (museum) that overlooks Minas Basin from the top of impressive shale cliffs slowly eroding from the Bay of Fundy tides. This is where I have to pick a moment in the tidal cycle to model because the tides are extreme. I'll choose low tide so I can make lots of mud! All structures will be built on bedrock made from real shale slabs gathered from this very location.
The Walton Woods Road heading SE is where the rail action begins, so the next panel will lie on the SE edge of this one.
Last night I attended the craft night at the stained glass store and watched my friend and others work on their pieces. Some of them were using aluminum L-blocks to hold their pieces on a plywood base. I bought a pack of L-blocks to use on my roads. I measured out fixed weights of Cape Blomidon sandstone powder, Walton shale particles, and fast drying wood glue and made shoulders that look like the real thing in the Cheverie area. Will let the shoulders dry before removing the L-blocks to see how they look. Will need to make my own curved L-blocks (possibly out of cardboard) for the road curves.
Field trip into Cambridge, Nova Scotia today allowed me to finish my second layout panel that lies NE of Cheverie (Panel 1). There will be a ficticious shale factory that makes shale products for local, provincial, and international markets. A rail line will run to the back of the factory where one or two containers can be loaded for shipping to the Fairview CN Intermodal Port in Halifax.
There will be lots of horses and cows on the Minas Basin side of Hwy 215. An old shed and woodpile will be modelled after the prototype (I took pictures). The farmhouses, barn, farm outbuildings, old shed and shale factory will be built on real shale plates collected in Cambridge.
Large thin sheets of shale will be used in the Walton area of the layout for building/structure bedrock.
All that crunching under my boots is a superb ground cover of small thin pieces of shale erroding off the cliffs from the action of extrordinary Bay of Fundy tides. All of my rail beds and ballast will be constructed from Walton shale.
The folded shale cliffs in Walton, Nova Scotia are a sight to see. Very easy walk along the harbour beach and you are looking into the distant past of the planet Earth. There is also barite, gypsum, and pyrite to be found in good quantities.
Field trip to Walton today so I can complete my layout planning for two more foam panels NE of the Cheverie panel. The freelance revival of the old Walton barite mine, mill, and gypsum quarry are located at the end of my layout to the NE. The Cheverie Mountain Railroad Yard will be nearby.
Two subterranean conduit bundles will be run to distribution boxes EEP #1 and #2. These independent conduits (within a bundle) will supply electrical, electromechanical and pneumatic energy to lighting and animation devices on this panel. These conduits are not associated with the track power.
Very happy with Cheverie clay as asphalt for the paved roads. Can also use this technique for roofing.
Sanded the surface of the hardened clay and applied some black paint. Looks promising as an asphalt road surface so far.
It's 2:30 am and I woke up with an idea on how to connect the two Cheverie gypsum quarries on either side of Hwy 215. The highway will pass over a bridge. The basin-side quarry will haul its gypsum under the highway bridge by dump truck to the NE quarry for crushing and loading into hoppers.
Clay road section applied with a spatula. Will let it dry overnight. The clay contains larger stones that I removed for this roadway experiment. When building a cliff or other rugged scenery these stones will stay in the mix.
Here is a clay sample from the sealed bag used in the shelf life test.
I have drawn a similar section of Hwy 215 on a block of foam and will apply Cheverie clay to dry overnight. The clay in this bag is only a few days old but will stay moldable for over a month (result from running a shelf life test with another sealed bag).
In the materials lab I am going to carry out an experiment with Cheverie clay that I gathered from the beach (during my muddy boot episode shown earlier in this thread). You can see some of this gray clay in the small sealed bag. I have used this natural clay for ground cover and plan to use it to make rugged cliffs and other scenery items, but in this experiment, I am going to investigate how it holds up as road asphalt.
In this section of the layout, the church and private residence foundations will sit on brown shale slabs sunk into the layout base. The gravel parking lot will use crushed shale from Cheverie.
Bedrock for structures in and around layout Cheverie will use real shale slabs like these two gathered from one of the Cheverie beaches. Two colours were collected: gray and brown.
Coastal highway 215 runs through Cheverie. I will make this road 9 cm wide. The real compass points have been placed along the foam edges. Two gypsum quarries have operated in Cheverie in the past so I am bringing them back with mining equipment and appropriate buildings. Based on historical geological mineral resources data, the approximate locations of these quarries is shown on the foam. A very old church still in use will be modelled. On the southwest side of a small creek there was some core drilling exploration for manganese and barite in the past according to the literature. I will model a drilling crew of five plus their drilling equipment. A track will run SE of the road.
Here is the basement area I will have available for my layout. About seventy of the foam boards on my desk fit into the basement layout area. I have lots to work with.
When I go to sleep tonight, I'll probably be dreaming about the width of the HO road going through Cheverie versus the size and shape of my basement.
This 10 cm measurement is a kilometer on my accurate topo maps.
This is my layout design desk. I have the most accurate topographic maps available, geological data for all of Nova Scotia, drawing and measuring tools, and a working piece of foam to draw features of interest on.
And the most beautifully-coloured satin spar (a form of gypsum) I have ever seen. I call this colour salmon.
You never know how deep the mud and clay are ... until you step in a soft spot. Yikes!
Stunning rock and mineral combinations.