Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Lack of Pulling Power?

2560 views
18 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 570 posts
Lack of Pulling Power?
Posted by hwolf on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 3:28 PM

Question #1

I have a Balwin 4-4-0 made by Bachmann.

It is having trouble pulling 4 Ore Cars connected and a Caboose up a 2% grade. The trucks are older and have plastic wheels.  

Would it help to oil the wheels or use grease? Would this just make it worse and collect dirt. Would I be better off changing all the wheels to metal?

Question #2

I use a CMX Track cleaning car with alcohol. The track appears very dirty as we were on vation for a month with no trains running. Does Mineral Sprits do a better job to get the track really clean?

Harold

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
  • 6,526 posts
Posted by RR_Mel on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 3:45 PM

 

I use ACT-6006 from Aero-Car Hobby Lubricants in my CMX followed by a drag cleaner and it leaves the track with a mirror finish.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 2,616 posts
Posted by peahrens on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 3:49 PM

hwolf
Question #2 I use a CMX Track cleaning car with alcohol. The track appears very dirty as we were on vation for a month with no trains running. Does Mineral Sprits do a better job to get the track really clean?

Harold, I use a CMX car with denatured alcohol and it does a good job.  In between, I include a masonite pad box car in my freight trains most of the time. From past threads, I'd say the consensus choice for the CMX car is lacquer thinner.  I just haven't switched, and the (minor) alcohol fumes are theoretically less noxious I'd guess.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 570 posts
Posted by hwolf on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 4:11 PM

I also can use Lacquer Thinner.

Harold

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 5:01 PM

Very dirty in one month doesn't sound right.  Is this brass track?

Before I filled my basement with lacquer thinner fumes, I would search "Gleaming" as a non toxic alternative. 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • From: Milwaukee WI (Fox Point)
  • 11,426 posts
Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 5:08 PM

I think many modelers experience better rolling qualities with good metal wheelsets, and they help with keeping the track from getting gunky.  Also a tool called the truck-tuner (MicroMark sells it) reams out the bearing openings in the truck sideframes and makes just about any wheelset roll better, including the plastic ones.  Lubrication of the ends of wheel axles should be modest at best.  I have not found it necessary for example, and if the lubrication attracts fuzz and dust it might be counter productive.  Don't forget that improving the rolling qualities of the tender might help as well.  I am not familiar enough with that particular engine to say how easy that might be.

I do suspect that better wheelsets (or better trucks entirely) on the cars might help your 4-4-0 pull a little better.  But 4-4-0s both prototype and model are rarely good pullers and four ore cars plus caboose up a 2% grade is actually not too bad a performance. 

There might be room to add a little bit of weight over the drivers of the locomotive.

Dave Nelson 

 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 5:10 PM

hwolf
I have a Balwin 4-4-0 made by Bachmann. It is having trouble pulling 4 Ore Cars connected and a Caboose up a 2% grade. The trucks are older and have plastic wheels.

Did this loco pull this load with success previously? Sounds like a lot to ask from a 4-4-0, a notoriusly lightfooted type in model form.

What kind of trucks/ore cars? Metal wheels that are correctly sized  for the trucks will likely help lower rolling resistance, except the train will be heavier. Finding new free rolling trucks will help most, I suspect.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 570 posts
Posted by hwolf on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 5:20 PM

The track is not brass. It is Nickel Silver.  The layout is in a 10'  x 16' Air Conditioned Shed in Florida. ( High Humidity).  Gleening is not really an option as I have 4 long tunnels.

Harold

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 5:21 PM

There are electronic gauges to measure pull.  http://www.micromark.com/digital-pull-meter,9577.html

A cheaper alternative would be a spring scale from Amazon. You would need something small like 2.5 newtons.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,321 posts
Posted by selector on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 5:36 PM

 

hwolf

Question #1

I have a Balwin 4-4-0 made by Bachmann.

It is having trouble pulling 4 Ore Cars connected and a Caboose up a 2% grade. The trucks are older and have plastic wheels.  

Would it help to oil the wheels or use grease? Would this just make it worse and collect dirt. Would I be better off changing all the wheels to metal?

Question #2

I use a CMX Track cleaning car with alcohol. The track appears very dirty as we were on vation for a month with no trains running. Does Mineral Sprits do a better job to get the track really clean?

Harold

 

It's a tiny locomotive, even though your trailing 'tonnage' seems to be light.  It's still a substantial 2% grade.  Is there a curve involved, say down to 18" radius?  That could make quite a difference.

At this point, you have little to lose by doing two things:

a. seeing if a truck reamer will help; and

b. Trying a light and plastic/paint-safe lube like Dexron III Mercon auto transmission fluid, which is what I have been using for years now.

The only other fix, assuming the locomotive spins and doesn't actually stall, is to add some weight.  No idea how you'll do that to good effect for this locomotive.

It might interest you to know that, prior to deconstructing my last layout, I applied the ATF to the entire rail system quite liberally.  My aim was twofold; to see if the locomotives slipped where they hadn't previously on my 3.3% grades, and to see it the ATF impeded continuity such that my trains wouldn't run at all, or if they stopped in places due to electrical loss.  Neither happened.  They ran as well as previously.  I didn't have the ATF in place long enough to see what happened months down the line, but the two weeks I ran trains prior to taking the layout apart went well.

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 570 posts
Posted by hwolf on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 5:58 PM

Near the top of the grade it enters a tunnel with a 22" radius curve. I will try some of you sugestions as I have nothing to lose. Thanks

Harold

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,640 posts
Posted by gregc on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 6:15 PM

i second the used of the MicroMark truck tuner.   My layout is flat.  But i noticed that some cars rolled down an extremely shallow grade and others did not.  Using the truck tuner made those cars roll also.

 

And if the loco wheels are slipping, I also second adding weight.   You might try filling some voids with small fishing weights.   If you can find tungsten, it's almost twice as dense as lead.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 8:05 PM

gregc
If you can find tungsten, it's almost twice as dense as lead.

This is what I use:

http://pinecar.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/P3922/page/1

It's obviously not pure tungsten, since it's moldable, but it is heavy as all SoapBox

It's a dark brownish-gray, so blends in without painting. It also sticks to clean surfaces, so requires no potentially problem causing glues to attach. And you can pinch off and squeeze in what fits and fills the spaces you have available. Once you tried it, it's like that beautiful girl who is now your wife...where was she for so long?Wink

Note it is a product of a a familair vendor and can often be found in most all-line hobby shops or the big box craft retailers, so easy to find.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, September 21, 2016 10:31 PM

Poor pulling sounds like wheel slip. More weight in the loco and change the wheels to all metal like Intermountain metal wheels, not Kadee sintered metal wheels. Use a truck tuner carefully. No oil or grease for the wheels. Many report better rolling with all metal wheels.

A few use Bull Frog snot on the drivers.

Our club for some years have used Intermountain wheels.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    October 2003
  • 570 posts
Posted by hwolf on Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:39 PM

Well there is more then one way to solve the problem.

Changed trains.  The 4-4-0 is now going up a 1 1/2% grade pulling two skeleton log cars and a bobbor caboose.

The ore cars on the 2% grade are being pulled by a Climax.

I am still going to change wheels

 

Harold

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, September 22, 2016 2:55 PM

There was an article in Model Railroader magazine quite a few years ago about making a test track with piece of wood and three foot section of track. You might find it in the Magazine index.

Lift one end of the wood to the angle of interest and compare cars rolling. Weight the cars to NMRA specs might help.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,583 posts
Posted by rrebell on Friday, September 23, 2016 9:28 AM

First off plastic wheels do not add gunk to the rails but that being said change over to metal wheels (I use Intermountain) and you will have to worry more about runaways if a coupler breaks than pulling the cars you want. 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 25, 2016 2:56 PM

I like using dry graphite in my truck side frames.  When assembling or while cleaning my rolling stock (wheels get very dirty on club layouts), I usually keep a truck tuner and a sharpened #2 pencil handy.  I rub the pencil inside the side frame where the axle makes contact and also run the pencil on the surface of the axle.  I have had pretty decent results (wheel spins freely by rolling it with my finger for over 20 seconds). 

If it doesnt spin well, then I use the truck tuner to clean out the inside of the sideframe.

I have two of those 4-4-0s and they are very slippery.  I have toyed with the idea of using bullfrog snot on one of the drive wheels, at the cost of potentially loosing power pick up... not sure if the gain is worth the loss. 

I just packed up my 4-4-0s because I am moving, so I cant look at mine, but you might look inside and see if there is room to add weight in the boiler.  Also under the cab roof or inside the cab might be a good area to hide weight.  There isnt a lot of room to play with, but you should be able to squeeze in at least 1/2 oz of lead (If you are okay with playing with lead). 

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Sunday, September 25, 2016 3:16 PM

Using moldable weights, you could fill the voids in the 8-wheeler's frame forward of the drivers and the space above the windows in the cab.  Just make sure the loco balances about 1/3 back from the front of the driver wheelbase so the front truck will track correctly.

I wouldn't use Bullfrog Snot on a 4-4-0.  You need all the drivers for electrical pickup.

Possibility for the micro-machinists among us.  Put an N scale diesel mechanism inside the tender.  Viola!  Super-American, with as many drive axles as a Challenger...

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with some N scale drives under HOj superstructures)

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!