I want to build a small Lake (less than a foot in diameter) with a layer of real water and a boat moving in the water. I have heard of a system with a magnet under the lake base. What can I use under the lake base? A pulley system with a belt of some kind, chain and sprockets, where would I find them? Then I need to attach the magnet to the belt or chain and put a magnet in the boat. Has anyone done this? Can you help me get started?
Think long and hard about bringing real water into what I assume is an indoor layout. The guys who have tried have usually done away with it due not only to the introduction of moisture into the layout room but also the look and odor of water when it gets stagnant. It also tends to attract insects and other critters such as silverfish.
Dave Nelson
AMENDED POST: A more realistic scene would be to try to find some way to have the boat gently rocking on the small lake or pond. It should be possible to use the various cast resin or plastic waters with a small opening where a wire attached to an eccentric of some kind could make the boat rock -- and gloss medium on the surface could create the gentle wave actions from the boat.
I can imagine a moving magnet system working -- and I can imagine making it work with real water making it 100 times more complicated. Dave's got some good points on this. But there's also the argument to keep things simple, as you'll probably have better luck at getting and keeping it going.
One way to make a moving magent system would involve another model railroad. You could lay some G gauge track to suit you navigator's "course" then haul a large magnet around with it. Since it's controllable like any other model RR, it would be easy to slow and speed the ship up with this method. For N scale, you might get away using HO for your "sub-track."
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Less than a foot in diameter? What scale are we talking about?
Jim
ctyclsscs Less than a foot in diameter? What scale are we talking about? Jim
True enough, that's a pond in most scales, even N. That boat will just be spinning in circles -- or quickly grounded in the mud.
DCHO I want to build a small Lake (less than a foot in diameter) with a layer of real water and a boat moving in the water.
I want to build a small Lake (less than a foot in diameter) with a layer of real water and a boat moving in the water.
I've seen something like this, but I don't remember who made it. Oh, here it is:
https://www.google.com/search?q=kramer+products+animated+ho+scale+rowboat&biw=1193&bih=636&tbm=isch&imgil=TNmRmYsO9faiuM%253A%253BK1g7pCycZ7la2M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fitm%25252FKRAMER-PRODUCTS-ANIMATED-FISHERMAN-IN-ROWBOAT-HO-SCALE-NEW-IN-BOX-%25252F321841513953&source=iu&pf=m&fir=TNmRmYsO9faiuM%253A%252CK1g7pCycZ7la2M%252C_&usg=__eP1GRvdlCZHXpx_3KaLommhAEO8%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjSwfTo3_nOAhWBKB4KHQz0BHYQyjcIJw&ei=IDHOV9KxGoHReIzok7AH#imgrc=TNmRmYsO9faiuM%3A
It's an eBay listing. The manufacturer is Kramer Products.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hello all,
Even the great HO scale modeler John Allen abandoned the notion of actual water on his pike for the same reasons mentioned.
His solution was to use a rippled or textured glass on his mill pond to replicate the look of water.
I would suggest adapting a similar solution.
The glass could be placed over a painted underwater scene-scape. Through the use of color grading depth could be replicated while maintaining a parallel surface under the glass.
Then a track or path could be cut in the underlying scene-scape. A motor could be placed in the center of the area.
A horizontal arm would be extended from the motor, with a possible support on the outer edge of the area.
Attached to the horizontal arm would be a vertical element with a magnet that would move just under the glass "water." This element would not be fixed to the horizontal arm, but allowed to move along it's length and track through the track or path cut in the sub-scenery.
Then a water craft, with an alternate polarity magnet, could be placed atop the glass "water."
When the motor is actuated the circular motion of the arm tracking through the path of the track cut in the sub-scenery would move the craft. The texture of the glass could also provide the bob of the craft across the surface. If the surface of the glass is smooth, not textured, then there would be no bob of the craft.
If you place the connecting magnets of the craft on the bow, when the polarity of the motor is reversed, then the craft would come-about.
All this without having to introduce actual water into your pike.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
DCHO I want to build a small Lake (less than a foot in diameter) with a layer of real water and a boat moving in the water. I have heard of a system with a magnet under the lake base. What can I use under the lake base? A pulley system with a belt of some kind, chain and sprockets, where would I find them? Then I need to attach the magnet to the belt or chain and put a magnet in the boat. Has anyone done this? Can you help me get started?
Find one of those Christmas ice skating displays. Its got all the mechanism you need, just extract it from the wintery, Christmas-y base.
Not sure I would recommend it, but some have done it, e.g. the Roadside America O scale layout. My guess is that the water stays clean because of the constant movement. Lights are also kept low from what I've seen. And maybe they put chlorine.. Maybe worth a visit or a phone call.
Simon
Not worth the time and effort for such a small lake.
Just My Worth.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up
Have you looked into the system used for moving highway cars and trucks?
I haven't tried either.
Dave
Even if you were able to overcome all the issues that have already pointed out and actually make it work, it is not going to look at all convincing. Water can't be made to move at scale speed. Your boat is going to look like a cork bobbing around in a bowl of water. This is why all the old movie makers who used models in this way shot with high speed cameras and slowed down the playback.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
carl425 Even if you were able to overcome all the issues that have already pointed out and actually make it work, it is not going to look at all convincing. Water can't be made to move at scale speed. Your boat is going to look like a cork bobbing around in a bowl of water. This is why all the old movie makers who used models in this way shot with high speed cameras and slowed down the playback.
There was an episode of The Brady Bunch where Gregg shoots a movie about what it was like to be a pilgrim. He shot a picture of The Mayflower sailing that obviously looked like a toy boat floating in a bathtub.
I think that is what it would look like.
Joe Staten Island West
Nothing looks more unrealistic on a layout than real water. You just can´t scale down waves and any vessel will bob on its surface like a rubber duck in a tub - unless ...
Miniatur Wunderland has a quite large "water feature", showing a typical Scandinavian fjord and harbor. There are a couple of RC ships plowing through these waters, which big enough to float fairly stable. Nevertheless, the water just doesn´t look right.
See for yourself:
Should you get the idea of incorporating something like it into your layout - the ships are up to 10 ft. long.
If all else fails consider creating the illusion of the boat moving through the water by using water affects.
joe323 carl425 Even if you were able to overcome all the issues that have already pointed out and actually make it work, it is not going to look at all convincing. Water can't be made to move at scale speed. Your boat is going to look like a cork bobbing around in a bowl of water. This is why all the old movie makers who used models in this way shot with high speed cameras and slowed down the playback. There was an episode of The Brady Bunch where Gregg shoots a movie about what it was like to be a pilgrim. He shot a picture of The Mayflower sailing that obviously looked like a toy boat floating in a bathtub. I think that is what it would look like.
I remember that episode! And what about that splash scene when they land foot? Priceless.
I would use a super magnet on a moving rail/bar/rod under the water surface which should be a thin sheet of glass or plastic. I would make the boat on a small pc of clear acetate/styrene that has some small wave/wake modeled on it and the whole thing would move with the magnet. The boat also needs another magnet or steel slug to be attracted by the underside magnet. This is something that I had considered on my layout but now don't have the space for it. A 12" or smaller lake won't allow for much action though unless you are using a 8' scale rowboat/dinghy. Just my thoughts.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
Don´t you think a rowboat, circling a small pond without anyone moving the oars looks a bit silly?
Sir Madog Don´t you think a rowboat, circling a small pond without anyone moving the oars looks a bit silly?
I have never seen any animation on a model railroad other than the trains that I thought didn't look silly.
carl425I have never seen any animation on a model railroad other than the trains that I thought didn't look silly.
That´s why you don´t find any of it on my layout!
Actually, I think having a stationary row boat with moving oars would be somewhat more realistic if you want that sort of thing (I don't). The fact that it isn't making any forward progress could be blamed on strong currents or the wind. A little texturing on the surface would suggest moving water.
I have to say that a few animations do look reasonably good. Things like crossing gates with flashers come to mind. Fallers car system is OK except for the fact that the cars move too fast and the starts and stops are too sudden. I recall seeing a video of a cyclist travelling down a road with the legs and pedals actually pumping away. That was very realistic IMHO.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Boats and ships moving through water at any kind of significant speed generate wakes. Wakes are really complex as can be seen here.
http://www.wikiwaves.org/Ship_Kelvin_Wake
It would be virtually impossible to generate realistic moving wakes with simulated water.
The trouble with real water is that real waves, no matter how small they are, will have real periods (time between wave peaks) which simply cannot be scaled. If you look at those 10 foot model ships in the video posted by Ulrich, you will notice lights reflected in the water. The lights "bounce" in sync with the "waves" generated by the ships, whose wake waves are pretty much 87 times too long to be realistic.
I was thinking this. Not sure if it would work but something to look at.
How about the faller car system mount your car in the boat and keep the boat just slightly off the roadbed(lake). Make the lake out of resin or plexi glass or glass. Make bow waves that are attached to the boat and a wake that attaches to the boat. Wire the system like you would if you were doing a road for the car to follow.
alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)
KISS!
Settle for a boat tied up to a narrow dock or quay. Have your intrepid oarsman helping his lady love into (or out of) same. They'll get under way (or not) as soon as they quit smooching...
Obviously, real water is unnecessary. It's also a disaster looking for a home. Remember, Murphy is alive and well - and just looking for an opportunity to prove it.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with watercourses navigable by kayakers living out death wishes)
The OP. wanted suggestions not just poo poos.
My suggestion would be to get one of those figure skating scenes with the moving skaters that they sell around Christmas. You may be able to change the tracking underneath it ( not sure of the difficulty of that) and give it less power to slow it down.
A little creativity to change the ice to water (envirotex lite) and some scenery change from winter to a more appropriate season. The magnet off the bottom of one of the skaters placed onto your boat and you should be in business.
Keep in mind, it would be alot of work for a small magical scene that would struggle to be realistic. It would be easier to make it a winter scene and leave the skaters skating.
Johnboy out............till next time
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
At the National Train Show at Indy this year. There was an N-Trak module with a boat moving across the lake. Was a little bit jerky. Module owner said humidty was causing this. I think he had a train running back and forth under the lake with magnets to make boat run with the train. Would need a hard smooth surface.
Possibly your best bet would be to video your scene & green screen in a boat...