I am getting ready to do some trackwork in the small industrial section on my layout and need a small radius curved turnout. I just read about Tillig turnouts and they look very good (similar design to FastTrack turnouts) but I can't determine what the radius is on them. They are listed in degrees like a 9/12 degree turnout. Does anyone have experience with or have these turnouts and how do I determine what the radius/radii are on them? I would like to try one and see how they work using a Tortise machine to operate the points. I originally planned to use Walther's No 4 turnouts but the area really needs a curved turnout to make it look right.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
farrellaaThey are listed in degrees like a 9/12 degree turnout. Does anyone have experience with or have these turnouts and how do I determine what the radius/radii are on them?
The NMRA Turnout Dimensions page lists a #6 turnout as having a frog angle of 9.5 deg
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
The tightest Walthers/Shinohara Code 83 curved turnout is a 24"/18" model. It is indicated as a 24/20, but as for all their curved turnouts, the diverging radius is 6" less than the main radius.
Dante
I don´t know which Tillig turnout you are talking about, but the tightest turnout has a 15 degree angle and a radius of a little bit over 19".
Sir Madog I don´t know which Tillig turnout you are talking about, but the tightest turnout has a 15 degree angle and a radius of a little bit over 19".
Thanks,
The Tillig turnouts look right on, for Germany, they look very much different than US turnouts.
That´s a curved turnout with a 30 1/2" radius for the main track and a 19" radius for the diverging track. Angle is 20.7 degrees.
rrebell The Tillig turnouts look right on, for Germany, they look very much different than US turnouts.
How different are they? Especially compared to hand laid track? (e.g. Fasttracks...)
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German track has different tie dimensions, different fastening types (spikes in US vs chairs and bolts in Germany) and different tie spacing, including doubling of ties in certain spots.
I called Reynauld's Euro Imports (US distributor in Illinois) today and got the following info regarding Tillig turnouts. The have moving point rails (like Fast Tracks turnouts), not hinged, and the turnout No 85333 is a RH curved turnout with a 9 degree frog angle; 377mm (14.7") inside radius and 543mm (21.2") outside radius. This is the smallest radius curved turnout they make. The photos of their 'Elite' line looks more American than their other line of track. They are very expensive though; $41.25 for the 85333. I will probably try one as it seems to be exactly what I am looking for. I will post an update if/when I get it. Thanks for all your info and support.
I installed the Tillig turnout a couple of weeks ago and have had electrical problems with it. I didn't realize it was a power routing turnout until after installing it (mounted with latex caulk, wired frog and soldered all joints with rail connectors). I am getting a short when the loco approaches the gap on the inside track and what is really puzzeling is that I don't have any feeder connected to the RED rail in diagram on the deadend siding. I have tested the continuity with my Ohm meter and it shows a connection between rails on that siding but I don't have the buss feeder attached (red side). When I run the probe along the rails (OHM setting) there isn't any resistance until it touches the gap on the red rail and then all the way down to the end of the siding. I can't see where there is a connection between the rails as this is after the gap. I realize I should have removed the jumpers on the frog before installation but with all the gaps it should work. What am I missing? The loco runs fine through the other track on the turnout (the upper track on the diagram). I also check voltage with my meter and get readings of 14.5 volts across the stock rails and when I get to the problem siding it shows a (-) negative 0.00 reading????????
Also, I disconnected all wires from frog and Tortise switch to make sure that wasn't causing a problem. I also disconnected the feeder wires to the deadend siding as it was shorting out when connected to the buss???
I am not an electrical master but this is really got me stumped.
Did you cut those gaps to the left of the frog? Out of the box - those are not there like they'd be on a fast Tracks turnout built exactly according to the instructions. Even so, that shouldn;t cause a short if the gaps on the frog rails to the right are truly good gaps. The Tortoise could be the problem, but you said you disconnected that - if the points touch the opposite stock rail before the Tortoise contacts break, you will get a short until the Tortoise complets its throw. And just hooking up the red wire on the right causes a short? What's the rest of the track look like past this turnout?
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerAnd just hooking up the red wire on the right causes a short? What's the rest of the track look like past this turnout? --Randy
Randy,
Everytime I connect the red buss or jump from the adjacent track I get a short? The lower (in diagram) turnout track is a dead end siding; it runs about 30" from the turnout and has no wires connected to it (I do have feeders soldered to the rails but they are NOT connected to anything now. The other track (above) runs to another turnout and single end siding; and another turnout with two single end sidings, all of which work fine. I don't understand how I can get the short on the siding red rail when it has nothing connected to it? As I mentioned earlier, when the VOM probe crosses the gap it shorts? It acts like there is a wire connecting the north and south rails?
I did cut the gaps just before (to the left) the frog and they are OK. Just very baffling?
-*Bob
Here is a diagram of the entire siding complex. the additional trackwork is shown all black but is actually Red and Black per Buss wire colors.
You don;t have a metal bumper on that siding, do you? Like one of the Tomar ones? With that gap there, there is no way the dead end can short. Unless you have a piece of metal across the rails, or there is a black bus wire attached to that rail.
rrinker You don;t have a metal bumper on that siding, do you? Like one of the Tomar ones? With that gap there, there is no way the dead end can short. Unless you have a piece of metal across the rails, or there is a black bus wire attached to that rail. --Randy
The sidings end whithout any bumper yet, just open track. (I use Walthers plastic bumper on all my sidings.) I checked that rail on the siding for any kind of wire or metal and there is nothing there? I agree that it shouldn't happen but it does. I may have to pull all of this track up and start over but don't know if I can get the Tillig turnout up without damage; they work very nicely but are more fragile than Shinohara or Peco. I will go over the track again tonight and double double triple check for any electrical path. Really frustrating! Thanks,
Went over the track again and removed the styrene filler I had CA cemented in the gap I had cut in the rail to isolate that section of rail; wanted to be sure the gap was all the way through, which it was. Tested the continuity across the gap with the VOM and it shows no continuity. Touched a jumper from the Red track buss and it shorts the system???? This is just a length of rail isolated from the rest of the layout??
When I regain my senses, I will remove the siding and Tillig turnout and hopefully be able to reuse the turnout. Once I remove the frog jumpers that Tillig came with, I will test the turnout and siding before installing on layout. I don't know what else to do here?
Just touching a red wire to the red side of the dead end, between the gap and the dead end, causes a short? That pretty much elminates the turnout as a source of the problem, if there is no continuity across the gap. Are you absolutely sure there isn;t a black feeder connected to the gapped side of the dead end instead of the continuous side like it should? That's pretty much the only way you cna get a dead short on an isolated piece of rail like that. Testing across the gap proves that the rail is indeed isolated from the turnout. And f the other end is just hanging there, not attached to any other track, there really can;t be much else wrong besides a crossed feeder. There's no other place for a circuit to be completed.
I saw that you mentioned a negative reading on your meter. If you are using a digital multimeter and are reading resistance, a negative reading is an indication there is some voltage present.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Guys, I understand what you are saying and I agree 100%, the Red rail is totally isolated and therefore shouldn't cause a short. The only feeder wire attached is a 9" length of red #22 wire and it is just hanging under the layout not connected to anything. This is the most baffeling issue I have ever run into? I am going to walk away from it for a day or two and look at it with a fresh approach.
And then I'll tear it out!
-bob
I think you may have miswired the Tortoise internal switch. It should be reversing the polarity of the frog when the switch is thrown, but you may have it wired in such a way that the polarity does not change.
Go back and double-check the Tortoise internal switch's wiring diagram and your wiring to it, because internally it's not like many people think it is. Note that terminals 2 and 3 would be the input, and 4 the output to the frog; or 6 and 7 for input, and 5 for output.
cacole I think you may have miswired the Tortoise internal switch. It should be reversing the polarity of the frog when the switch is thrown, but you may have it wired in such a way that the polarity does not change. Go back and double-check the Tortoise internal switch's wiring diagram and your wiring to it, because internally it's not like many people think it is. Note that terminals 2 and 3 would be the input, and 4 the output to the frog; or 6 and 7 for input, and 5 for output.
Just as you tested for continuity across the gap in the siding rail, and got an open circuit, as it should be - check across both rails of the siding. If it's not open circuit, SOMEWHERE you have a conductive pathway between the two rails. Could be something really silly, that stumped my Dad for a couple of days once - we built a mountain ont he corner of the layout, using the good old fashioned method of wood forms with chicken wire covered in plaster. Halfway up, there was a flat area that went into a tunnel, a liuttle track was run there with bumpers on each end (one inside the tunnel) to run one of those old Lionel HO section gang cars back and forth. First time the power was turned on to that track, there was a short. Even with nothing on the track. FINALLY figured out that the track nails, being spiked up against the rails rather than down the center line of the track, were long enough to go through the palster and touch the chicken wire underneath. Only a couple made actual contact, but it was enough to create a short.
This part is the confusing part. I can see that within the turnout itself, if the jumpers weren't cut, that either having the Tortoise wires backwards or just the fact that the points could make contact with the opposite stock rail before the Tortoise contacts have switched to the opposite side would cause a short within the turnout. Add the gaps, and then it shouldn;t short just throwing the points back and forth, but if the Tortoise wires are backwards, it will short when a loco hits the frog. None of this should have any bearing on the short in the insulated rail of the siding. That one is like if I picked up this piece of track here on my desk and clipped a power feed to one of the rails and my power supply shorted. Of course, we did have the one thread about a loss of power along a 3 foot length of Bachmann EZ Track.
rrinker That one is like if I picked up this piece of track here on my desk and clipped a power feed to one of the rails and my power supply shorted
This is exactly the case! I tried to explain it to my wife last night and gave that exact scenario. She said 'Well you must have a piece of bad track!". I just came out of the train room and did another continuity test across the rails and got the 'continuity' reading (0.00) on the ohm meter. And again no continuity across the gap? No feeders attached and I even pulled the push-on connector from the Tortise? Don't know what else to do or say at this point except to remove the siding and replace it with another section of flex! But why should that be any different than what I have now? It is like it is defying the laws of science! Maybe the air in the train room is conductive? LOL.
Thanks for all your suggestions and comments, and I will welcome anything else you can think of. I was going to take a couple of photos of the siding and turnout but didn't really think it would show anymore than the diagram I made.
I will post any revelations that I uncover in the next few days. I know there has to be a logical explanation somewhere.
DO you nail or glue your track? If nailed, you might have a stray nail wedged between the rails. It has to be somethign silly like that, or like my little bumper car problem when I was a kid. That the ungapped rail is connected to the opposite side makes sense, it's the continuous stock rail of the turnout and so should be the same polarity as that rail on the main. That it shorts over to the gapped rail though - got to be something on or under the track linking the rails.
rrinker DO you nail or glue your track? If nailed, you might have a stray nail wedged between the rails. It has to be somethign silly like that, or like my little bumper car problem when I was a kid. That the ungapped rail is connected to the opposite side makes sense, it's the continuous stock rail of the turnout and so should be the same polarity as that rail on the main. That it shorts over to the gapped rail though - got to be something on or under the track linking the rails. --Randy
No changes yet, had to divert my energy to another project; but, I did take a couple of photos.
The siding is about 36" long and as noted before only has one feeder on the north rail and it is disconnected. Just thought a photo would clearify anyone vision of what I am working with.
Well, Photobucket won't post my pics?? Again????????
Don't think photobucket is the problem -- the broken image placeholder thing is redirecting to a trains.com URL ...
I've found that the best way to get images to work (across various forums) is to ignore their "helper buttons" and write in the BBCode myself -- [ img ] http://your.photo.site.com/however/they/do/this/your_pic.jpg [ /img ] (note - spaces added to let you see the tags.
Now, nice thing about photobucket is that in the upper-right corner, they have three URL links ("Direct", "HTML", and "IMG") -- just click on the "IMG" one, and paste it here:
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
This is the other photo of the Tillig turnout. The gap on the Red/North rail is 4 ties in from the right end of the turnout.