New HO Layout - intermediate modeler needs help!

[Anonymous]

Greetings all!

I am working on benchwork for a new HO layout and wanted some feedback from knowledgable modelers... any help appreciated. I haven't built in more than 12 years and some things have changed.

The layout will be around the walls with an sizable penninsula. Since the layout room will be in a Florida garage and I am too anxious to build out the room now, I am starting with the penninsula and will move it later to the completed train room.

The penninsula features mostly yard area and I have borrowed some track plan from George Sellios' Franklin & South Manchester Line (page 68, March 2004 Model Railroader). A Diamond Scale turntable with Code 83 track is ready to go in as the focal point and I want to do my best to model 1930s era steam.

1) Subroadbed. Since this portion oif the layout will be moved and could be subjected to heat and humidity in a finished room in a garage, I've built L-girder with plywood on top. I've been strongly thinking of covering it with foam insulation boards as I can only think of positive consequences. Thoughts?

2) Track. The turntable bridge has been built with Code 83. I have an entire box of Atlas flextrack from 1988ish... don't know what code rail, but at that time, hobby manufacturers were just starting to think of selling rails in code. At this time I plan a freelance railroad in loosely the same style as the F&SM mentioned above. I want the model railroad to be reliable, look good and run smoothly. What code rail and turnout would be suggested? If different codes are used for main and siding tracks, are the connecting track pieces that adapt the codes? Is Atlas the most reliable but least prototypical?

3) DCC. I think I am sold on the merits of DCC. The nearby club uses Digitrax, so that makes sense. While I prefer to support the local hobby shops, are they the best resource for DCC products, support and/or assistance?

4) Kits. I am an excellent kit-builder and fairly sloppy scratchbuilder. My wife says I follow directions well! [:)] Any suggestions on where to find a wood trestle (as pictured page 70, March 2004 Model Railroader) or roundhouse (page 67, same issue)?

Thanks and happy railroading!

[Anonymous]

I can only comment on some issues:

You say you are L girder with plywood on top, I'm assuming you mean the road way for your sub roadbed to go on. What came to mind was the expansion and contraction your wood might be subjected to in your garage, not so much the cold there as the heat. Foam could be a very good way to go as it won't move, but I'm wondering about the wood underneath.

DCC: DCC is definitely here to stay and it changes from year to year. Don't panic on this statement as the changes are occurring in decoder offerings, not in the signals that are sent out (which are common and not propreitory technology). I don't buy from internet companies, but I know there are some good cheap stores for that. Check out the DCC forum at the Atlas site - www.atlasrr.com and ask a question about stores to buy from if you don't get a good answer here.

Here in Vancouver BC, most of the "serious" guys are using Shinohara code 70 rail and turnouts. It sounds to me like you are really "committed" on this layout and want it to be a good one, so don't scrimp on something important like track because of items you have from "back when." Due to budgetary reasons, its better to go slow and get the quality and look you want, than go faster because you have some kind of "deal."

Good luck on your layout, you're at the exciting part of planning - almost ready to go, but not quite.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rsn48

... What came to mind was the expansion and contraction your wood might be subjected to in your garage, not so much the cold there as the heat. Foam could be a very good way to go as it won't move, but I'm wondering about the wood underneath.

[#ditto]
I like to add a suggestion concerning the wood. Store the wood in the garage for at least 48 hours or more to give it time to adjust to the humidity in the garage before construction begins.
I went with quater inch plywood under the foam and just the glue alone warped the wood and twisted the foam. I used a lot of weight to flatten it out while the glue set, but it's still a little tweaked. I came to the conclusion that the foam only needs wood for attachment points and for some support. The attachment points made from 3/4 plywood or dimensional lumber has to be glued to the foam, but the supports don't need to be. Of course you could mount the foam on 3/4" plywood which is less affected by moisture than 1/4", but it will add a lot of weight.
If you move your layout indoors, again give it time to adjust to the humidity. But I wonder if taking the layout into a low humidity enviroment will change the way the sections will fit.
Also, if your plan is to move the layout to another location, then you will want to keep it light and sectional. Trying to fit a finished layout through a doorway can be trouble.
I highly recommend that you build the turntable and roundhouse on one section as a unit. Trying to fit them together separately is asking for trouble.
A Diamond scale turntable is a craftsman kit. Take your time, make a copy of the instructions and read them over and over until you understand everything. Then ask for pointers on this forum from others who built this kit. I'm sure they would have done something different.
As far as track code goes, since you are modeling the 1930's which used lighter rail than today, you could go with code 70 but watch your flanges on the steamers. Some tend to be a bit oversized and will hit the spike heads or tie plates. Brand is a personal choice and your choices are limited by the code you choose. Most people will tell you stick with the same brand of track and turnouts so they will match ( tie spacing, tie plates and thickness can vary between manufacturers) and I can't argue against that. Micro Engineering, Shinohara, Peco, and Walthers are popular and easy to obtain. However while surfing for India railway items I found the German manufacturer Tillig. It is only offered in code 83 and you have to import them but the track and turnouts look great.

DCC? there is enough said in forums already.

What Roundhouse to build? Depends on the longest loco you can fit on your turntable? Find a roundhouse kit with stalls the same length. I believe Walthers has the longest stalls, but if your TT bridge is shorter you have more choices. If the bridge is longer than the longest stall you can find then your TT is eating up space. Check the adds in ModelRailroader and the web for roundhouses.


I have a Heljan TT and 15 stall roundhouse. I built it on a 4 X 4 sheet of 2" foam (lead tracks still under construction). The main thing I didn't like about this kit is the floor. Click HERE to see what I'm talking about. I filled in the "holes" with plaster. It is smaller than the Walthers new kit but I started it long before Walthers had any roundhouses. I also installed inspection pits, lots of extra work that made the going slow. The Walthers Roundhouse has pits included. I also found out later, in prototype, not all stalls had pits.
Good luck and keep in touch!

[Anonymous]

Reno,

My two cents:

Thick plywood for sub roadbed (3/4" ). Anything less will change size and warp...I speak from experience.

Code 70 looks great but can cause operational ptroblems if it is not perfect. I like Micro Engineering's code 83 because to my eye it has the most prototypical railhead shape (most of the others are too big). Their switches are good but limited, so you will probably end up using Walthers/Shinohara for some stuff anyway. I would keep the atlas for the hidden track and use the code 70 for sidings and track that you can reach easily. Everything else code 83. Using different brands of track is not a huge problem if you fit and file (if needed) carefully at the connections between brands. There are cheats that make transition tracks between rail sizes un-necessary.

DCC: Buy the best system you can afford. You won't regret it. I like the wireless throttles by EasyDCC, but there are many good systems. Try before you buy.

One other comment: Fini***he train room!! I built my last layout in my garage and I regretted not finishing the space before layout construction began. Trying to hang drywall, stuff insulation, paint, wiring, mudding drywall etc..are all much easier when you don't have to work around part of a layout that is fragile. I did this stuff after my layout was nearly complete (took years off my life).

There are many ways to proceed in the hobby, hope this helps.

Guy

[cacole]

A suggestion on selecting a DCC system: Don't go for cheap! An Atlas Master, Digitrax Zephyr, MRC Prodigy, or Lenz "Beginner" system are too limited in what you can do with them. Look for a system that can be easily upgraded, such as Easy DCC from CVP products, where you can change out the main CPU chip to keep up with changes in technology. If you think you migh ever want to go with onboard sound, such as SoundTraxx, Broadway Limited, Lionel HO, or Athearn Genesis, insure that the system you select can program CVs in the 112 and higher range. I would also look for a system that can control at least 12 functions, since some of the newer decoders now have that many available functions. I've tried to help people install and learn to use the cheaper systems mentioned above, and they caused nothing but extreme frustration and grief. One person never realized until too late that he was color blind to a red on black LCD readout and couldn't see what the Atlas Master system was set on. He changed to Easy DCC for that reason alone.

[cwclark]

I'm sold on Atlas flextrack code 100 rail and mark 3 turnouts...The other stuff looks good but I've heard too many horror stories of trains jumping the rails and the turnout frogs if they are not installed perfectly. I'm not a big fan of DCC either..I like to throw all those switches and turn all those dials and pu***hose buttons to get the trains running...good luck!...C.W. Clark

[rayhippard]

Reno, Wood expands and contracts because of changes in humidity in the air. You can't do much about this short of a totally temperature and humidity controled room which is very expensive to build and energy expensive to run. You will have a big swing in humidity in FL and your track and table alignment will suffer. SCRAP THE WOOD YOU HAVE STARTED WITH ! I will not use wood again. My son [42] and I [62] have built several layouts over the years and could never stop wood from having this problem. We are currently building a new layout and are using steel studs [ the house building studs ] for the legs and supports and as girders. We are fastening with a combination of pop rivets and sheet metal screws.Cut with metal blades in jig saws and re-ciprocating saws and metal cut off wheels/blades in circular saws. ALLWAYS WEAR EYE PROTECTION !!! Layout base is minimum 2 inch thick extruded foam and build up higher levels with this type of foam from there. You can fasten foam to steel with Liquid Nails Type Glue [for foam ] and/or sheet metal screws Best tool I ever bought for working with foam is The Hot Wire Foam Factory Set [ad in MR ]. This eliminates the " dreaded " foam shreds which are a pain to clean up. This set has all the tools you will need to cut,carve shape and sculpt foam. Easy to use and you'll look like a " pro " overnight.
SIDE NOTE: Use only glues for foam and latex paints on foam or the petroleum ingrediants in others will " eat " through the foam. I hope these comments will help you and I also agree that the train room should be completely finished before any layout building goes in it. Good luck and have fun. This it a great hobby. Ray

[snowey]

to join two rail sizes together, you have two choices: you can either put a joiner on the larger rail, flatten the part that sticks out with a pliers or something, lay the smaller rail on top of the joiner, and solder everything together. When it dries, take a file and file down any bumps where the rails join.


or, you can buy transition joiners from MICRO-ENGINNERING.

the best track brands are: PECO, SHINOHARA (WALTHERS), ATLAS, and KATO "UNI-TRACK".

[Anonymous]

Reno:

No matter how anxious you are to get to the layout FINI***HE ROOM FIRST!! I suggest you use the minimum amount of wood possible. The metal foam combination mentioned above sounds as if it would avoid most of your areas heat and humidity problems.

For a '30s layout code 70 rail is appropriate with some larger code on heavily used main line. I hand lay my track so I can't speak to the merits of various manufactureres products. Stay with #6 or larger turnouts.

As to the timber trestle, I STRONGLY suggest you have a go at building one from scratch. Such bridges are really only one bent (group of support beams) repeated again and again. Klamback's Bridges & Trestles shows you how to design and build such constructions step by step. However, with the humidity in your area you will likely want to use plastic materials rather than wood. Another thing, a wood trestle would at most have code 70 rail and more likely code 55 so consider that in your decisions on rail coding.

Sorry, I can't help you with the roundhouse. I recall a thread on the subject, you might want to search the forum index.

Good Luck and welcome back

Randy

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the tips!

Seems that Shinohara (Walthers) is producing a whole line in Code 83, due soon. I have some concerns about my older equipment running on smaller code rail than that and the prototypical look is slightly less important to me than the reliability of operation. Some have suggested using the abundant supply of Code 100 I have for the double main and dropping to Code 83 for the yard/sidings. Is this wise?

The plywood is 1/2" on top of L-Girder. The only foam I have found is at Lowe's.. 1/2" blue stuff. Any ideas on where to find 2"?

Since I began construction of the benchwork in the garage, it is all acclimated to the Florida heat/humidity of Spring. I plan to drop the foam on, run Masonite around the edge for a fascia and bring the 4X9ish section inside. Does the foam need to be glued to the plywood? That would solve the expansion problems...

[Anonymous]

Reno, as a carpenter of 14yrs I can tell you the only guarentee with wood is IT"S GOING TO MOVE. People sk me why their doors shrink and expand so much and I general find a door that the top and bottom are not sealed with a protective finish(primer or sanding sealer does not count). Paint it with semi gloss paint or a polyurethane. Screw plywood to your L girders after prefinishing then attach the foam.