I am currently adding a 24'x21' addition to my house. Much to the grumblings of my wide I can't use the entire up stairs and full basement for the new layout. I had envisioned a double helix leading from one floor to the next but we all know how persuasive the wife can be. So I am relegated to the basement. I will put a pass through to the old section of the basement where I plan on putting the staging yard which should be about 20' in length give or take a few feet.
So I'm looking for some input on a new track plan. I was thinking about something along the lines of an "E" shape. up one wall across to a peninsula and across to the other wall. Does anyone have any suggestions or possible any web sites or books for track plans? I am leaning to a double mainline with several industries off of maybe two separate branch lines. I would like to have it so that I can leave plenty of room for expansion in the future. By this I mean adding industries and sidings etc. Not the lets tear down the museum quality layouts like guys such as Howard Zane and others of like ability do. I had the pleasure of speaking to him at a show recently where he was saying he was changing his layout. A layout most of us would love to have something half as nice.
So being as this forum has been the greatest source of information for me after getting reacquainted with the hobby after a 30-year lay off.
Thanks in advance guys
While it can be fun to explore ideas on how a basement layout can be shaped, it is best to let the shape fulfill the function of the railroad. Start with your givens and your druthers. The givens are the things you can't change, and you druthers are the things you would like or don't want on your layout. These of course will be in constant negotiation with each other.
With the size of your layout, a good plan is critical. Consider that you will be spending from $50-$100 per square foot and 50 hours per square foot, you want the plan to be a good as possible. Unless you are John Armstrong or Tony Koester, this means research--and I know Koester researches.
I would start by reading my Beginner's Guide click-able from my signature. It takes about 5 minutes. Once you get clear on your vision, research a little and flesh it out. Guys here are very knowledgeable and can help a lot. But track-work and benchwork come last. It's a lot easier to fit track to a vision than it is to reverse engineer a vision to a track plan.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Well all of what you said makes perfectly good sense. I was contemplating a basic double dog bone mainline. I am more in to scenery and detail then operation. I am not one who enjoys prototypical railroading. I like to think I have a rather eclectic railroad. Although I model mainly the northeast mainly Pennsylvania RR in a transition period. I not opposed to running either my N&W 4-8-4 J-class Pocahontas or SP daylight through my setup when the mood strikes me.
Nothing against the Tony's Koster's or John Allen's or any of the other prototypical guru's out there but I'm crazy enough already if I were to even attempt to model as they do I would be a basket case. I'm just interested in getting some points of view or examples of what other people are running on a setup my size or similar. I am not making the typical newbie mistake of trying to fit everything in to one layout but being as I will have a lot more room the average and am starting off fresh I would like so input on what others are doing.
Even so, you must have an idea of what you are looking for. When someone mentions having a layout or running trains, you have a vision of what they are talking about.
But it is your vision not theirs. It is not mine or any other guys on the board. Work with your vision, develop it, then ask for help. Without your vision, we just cough up our vision. I'm modeling 1885 Central California, but would really like small steam through the Redwoods. I'm also running a small switching layout of the PRR in Indiana Pennsylvania in 1950. This one is pretty strict in following the prototype right down to Sanborn Maps and aerial photos.
So you have to be clear in your mind what it means to have a layout before we can help.
A transition PRR can be a coal runner, slate quarry, Broadway Special, Horseshoe curve or my 18.9 mile Indiana Branch. Tell us what you want to see. If it is the four miles between Horseshoe Curve and Altoona, nothing but trees, that's cool, but asking in general. you might as well pick up an MR or 101 track plans. Everyone will have their own idea. We need yours.
On the other hand, not knowing the location of the door or any windows or closet, I think a modified G shape with anything on the walls 30" and anything in the center 5' wide, with the door at the opening of the G.
Fixed objects, especially those mandated by building codes, will necessarily drive your planning. Doors (and which way they swing,) windows, ventilation openings, immovable pipes and wires... will constrain your design plans. (Gasmeterszag Junction on John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern had its height set by the clearance under the gas meter.)
Develop a detailed room plan. That will give you a much clearer view of where your benchwork can go.
Since my modeling is very different from the average, I hesitate to mention my track plan. However, my benchwork plan might be helpful. Benchwork (maximum width 32" crossways, 24" along solid walls) along the walls and across the (locked down) door of an attached 2-car garage. The personnel door, water heater and other utilities mandate keeping the back wall clear, so the along-the-wall benchwork turns inward, then curls back and widens in the form of two L-shaped peninsulae with a maximum width of slightly over five feet. Interior access takes the form of a droopy-ended T, from the center of the back wall passage to the center of an aisleway that parallels the door, then back along the fixed walls. That forms the benchwork into a rolled-in C shape.
The advantage is a long, long main line (either continuous or loop-to-loop)- if that's what you want. (or something very different, which is what I want.)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
tomikawaTT thanks for the input. I designed this area specifically for my railroad. The room will be 24' deep x 21' wide. Clear span, no posts or columns because I speced. 12" micro-lam beams. The walls are poured concrete so there are no pillars. There are only two windows (maybe) that will be hidden from view by backdrop scenery. The walls are 9' high so as to hide all the mechanical between the floor joist. The electrical sub panel will be installed in the wall on the old side of the basement. There will be one 36" out swing door in to the room. so there will be zero obstruction on all the walls with the exception of the doorway. I do not wish to have any type of swing bridge or anything crossing the door. I plan on having bench work on the all the walls with the exception of half of the existing wall from the old part of the basement. This area will be reserved for a digital lighting control panel. I have a full lighting plan in place that even blew the mind of the building sub-code official. He said he has never seen such intricate wiring. Not too hard when it's part of what you do for a living. I can adjust the room lighting to simulate anything from sunrise to sunset conditions and with the use of fiber optics I even have stars in the ceiling. Yeah I know it's a little over the top but working with electronics is like breathing to me so no biggie.
One thing I do want to try is a section with splined roadbed. It seems like a very interesting concept, but not enough to do the entire layout with it.
I guess what I am looking for is to possibly steal an idea from here and one from there sort of thing. Who knows maybe I'll just wing it until I run out of track and switches and see what I wind up with.
As noted thinking about your givens and druthers a la John Armstrong go a long way in keeping the planning process on track so to speak - and even with such a large space planning is important just to keep from frustrating yourself. However, its not a bad idea to look at other folks ideas for inspiration. With the large wheel base locos mentioned (and your H-8 moniker) the Appalachia roads provide lots of options to consider. There's a web site I've found interesting you might want to look at Appalachian Railroad Modeing [ http://members.tripod.com/appalachian_railroad/index.html ] which has some track plans close to your size.
Just this C&O modelers 2 cents....
Charles
Plan around your biggest engines with your curve radius.
I myself am preparing 28 to 34" radius.
Also plan room for people, walkways 3 feet is good, 4 feet even better.
And not the least, plan your longest train and build your main around it with passing siding capacity etc.
Although your excitement is understandable, in order to avoid having some early enthusiastic mistakes haunt you for the lifetime of the layout, now's probably a better time for research and thought than for detailed track planning and construction.
I see lots of folks with little experience rush into detailed planning with unhappy results. There have been lots of layouts similar to what you describe covered in the hobby press. It might be worthwhile to study these with care, making notes of what you like and don't like.
A neat example of a rail-fan style layout is Neal Schorr's 3-rail PRR in Model Railroad Planning 2007. Something like it would fit in your space in HO. Phil Brooks' terrific N scale layout in the same issue occupies about the same space as you are talking about for HO, but most of the elements could be rearranged in HO in your space.
Larry Wright's HO Beaver Valley and Pennsylvania in the April 2007 Railroad Model Craftsman is in a larger space than yours, but one could certainly adapt some of the scenes in a smaller space.
Designing a satisfying layout for a space this large is a major undertaking, so it's worth doing the homework, IMHO. There are a few questions on my website that may help you focus on your own layout vision. The Layout Design Special Interest Group's Layout Design Primer is a lot to go through, but may also be useful. And if you are going to be planning your own layout, a first stop should be John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation (published by Kalmbach).
I'd recommend against rushing into a full-fledged design too soon, but I could be accused of soemtimes planning too much and building too little. If you really want to get started on something, building a small section or some modules might be a good way to start a scene or two that could later be incoporated into the full layout -- after you've had time to learn what you really want.
Good luck,
Byron
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Thanks for the input guys. I picked up John Armstrong's book this afternoon. I've been reading through it while changing out couplers and weighing tank and freight cars oh and searching the web too. I'm not too multitasking am I...... lol Although very very interesting reading IMHO I feel he used to cram as much track as he could in the space he was using. Some of his track plans are a tad busy for my taste but still pretty impressive stuff.
I like the idea about the coal mine etc. because its is presently my biggest industry on my present layout and besides what would I do with 200 coal hoppers. I also agree with the thought of planning the railroad with the largest locomotive in my roster. I am leaning towards a 30" min. on my mainlines. I know the big boys and challengers and Allegheny will all run on much less but for aesthetic purposes there's nothing nicer then a long train on a large sweeping curve.
Cuyama our correct on jumping in to construction way too soon but this is all arm chair railroading right now. I actually have been planning this some what in my head for the past year so being as I'm due to break ground possibly by the end of the month I want to start preparing for this winter. Yeah like a squirrel gathering his nuts. I am planning on long nights and weekends in the new train room. I had a conversation to night with one of my friends who runs a small HO layout but superbly detailed. We were talking how no one person can do it all. My field of expertise lay in bench work construction and electronics. His being scenery another friend is great at laying track as well as planning. plus a few other guys in the group have specific tallents. All of who have offered their help when construction starts. This is the part of the hobby I really enjoy as much as running trains is getting together with a bunch of really nice guys shooting the bull and building a railroad. My wife calls us the OFSMRRC. Which stands for Old Farts Model Railroad Society.
Thanks agian guys all very valuable thoughts.
Byron,
Love the CTS story. Been there. Done that. Luckily people here put me on the right path despite my best efforts to screw up.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 wrote: Thanks for the input guys. I picked up John Armstrong's book this afternoon. <snip>Although very very interesting reading IMHO I feel he used to cram as much track as he could in the space he was using. Some of his track plans are a tad busy for my taste but still pretty impressive stuff.
Thanks for the input guys. I picked up John Armstrong's book this afternoon. <snip>Although very very interesting reading IMHO I feel he used to cram as much track as he could in the space he was using. Some of his track plans are a tad busy for my taste but still pretty impressive stuff.
The layouts shown in the book were typical of their time, and some are a bit more packed with track than some designers choose today. IMHO, it's the ideas that are important in the Track Planning for Realistic Operation book, not necessarily the track plans.
SpaceMouse wrote: Love the CTS story. Been there. Done that. Luckily people here put me on the right path despite my best efforts to screw up.
I've been away from forums for about five months, but it seems like the trend continues unabated. Lots of newbie designers getting bad advice to jump right into CAD and flailing away.
I work with CAD on an everyday basis and I'll be the first to tell u that it is definitely not something you can just download and use. It's pitched as very user friendly, sure if your a ACD operator it's just as easy as lets say Architectural desktop or AutoCAD but for a novice or even someone who is very adept at using computer it will leave you dumbfounded and out a chunk of cask.
Your right about John Armstrong's being the trend of the day if you will and maybe a little more busy then most. So what I did was download several plans from the afore mentioned site a few post back from the Allegheny website and copied them in to Microsoft paint. Where I altered the plans a little here and a little there and combining several different attributes of each plan to make it unique. I then added a few elements of my own and came up with a fairly good place to start. I am still researching a lot of track plans to gain more insight. I have a long way to go before I even start construction on the bench work so I'm still building it in my head and even copping it down on paper.....