Fast track hand laid turn outs

[snaggletooth999]

Am thinking about using the Fast Track system for scratch building turnouts. Has anybody got any ideas, comments, or experience with this particular system. To me it appears like it could be a good thing, but then I have never hand laid track or had anything to do with hand laid track. Although it appears that it is possibly the best answer for HOn30 which I also plan to incorporate into my new HO layout. Any comments would be appreciated.

[selector]

I have built HO Code 100 #8 turnouts and a couple of double-slip turnouts using their jigs and method.  I have not yet seen an adverse report by users on this forum.  A benefit to their use is that you at the same time learn how to make pretty much any configuration of turnout and can lay them yourself when you have unique requirements...I have done that in two locations on my layout.

The turnouts are superior from the standpoint of the frogs.  The throwbar and points assemblies are a bit tricky at first, but once you learn how to file down the foot of the stock rails adjacent to the points, and to solder the thin points to the PCB board ties, these turnouts are simply amazing.

One other tip: Tim Warris, in his video, suggests using a jeweler's saw to cut the gaps in four places around the frog to isolate it.  I agree completely now that I have used both the cut-off disks and a Dremel-like tool and the jeweler's saw.  The latter leaves a gap that is about 1/5 as wide, and much much tidier than the cut-off disk.

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

One other tip: Tim Warris, in his video, suggests using a jeweler's saw to cut the gaps in four places around the frog to isolate it.  I agree completely now that I have used both the cut-off disks and a Dremel-like tool and the jeweler's saw.  The latter leaves a gap that is about 1/5 as wide, and much much tidier than the cut-off disk.

Ditto to this.  The difference is huge.  Here is a double crossover I built, N scale.  It gets really tight soldering in the frog areas, but it looks really good.

[selector]

Whoa..that is nice!  Well done!

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

Thanks!  I'm sure you noticed with your doubleslips how much more work is involved in this type of trackwork.  The number of frogs in a small space gets to be incredible.  I've got a doubleslip in my trackplan that I plan to handlay without the jig, since there will only be one.  I didn't have to have it, but I sort of want to prove I can do it!

 

[selector]

...I didn't have to have it,...!

 

Oh, I did.  I simply haaaaaddd tuh!

[rrinker]

I think the crew of that T1 is in a bit of trouble for pulling past the fouling point there.

 

                                             --Randy

[selector]

I think the crew of that T1 is in a bit of trouble for pulling past the fouling point there.

 

                                             --Randy

As yardmaster, I'm on my way over there right now. 

[betamax]

They make it easy to build really good quality turnouts.  I find it takes anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to do the basic assembly. The nice thing is that you can make the rails any length you want, making it easier to customize things as needed.

Even your first attempt will turn out pretty good.

I would recommend a good soldering iron, light gauge solder, and rosin flux.  With a little practice you'll be able to solder things very nicely.

A useful tool is a little benchtop belt sander to grind down the rails where the points meet. Speeds up the process and does a great job.  Plus a new file. 

 

[jbloch]

Michael(betamax):

I thought I recalled from the video on the Fasttracks website that they recc. using acid flux, then make sure you wash off the flux after the soldering.  As I recall, the point is that you get a deeper cleansing of the surface that will hold the solder better.  Your experience here? Thanks.

Jim

[selector]

I did what Tim suggests with all of my turnouts.  On the ones that I handlaid on my own, I used the very fine rosin cored stuff, and they work just as well, IMO.  I think that Tim is probably correct about the acid doing a better job, but it will also continue to oxidize the copper cladding on the PCB ties, which will eventually be akin to self-cannibalism.  The solders will eat themselves out of a footing over time.  I honestly don't know whether washing the turnout prior to applying the wooden tie kit is going to prevent the acid from doing this where the water will never reach...right between the solder pad and the copper cladding.

[snaggletooth999]

By the sound of it there are no adverse thoughts on the fast track system, and there seems to be plenty of evidence that very nice tidy work can be achieved by it. So looks like that is the way I will be going. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, much appreciated.

[betamax]

I thought I recalled from the video on the Fasttracks website that they recc. using acid flux, then make sure you wash off the flux after the soldering.  As I recall, the point is that you get a deeper cleansing of the surface that will hold the solder better.  Your experience here? Thanks.

Acid is just bad for anything electrical.  It will eat away at the connection, no matter how hard you try you'll never get all of it.

The only real advantage of acid flux is that it's more agressive than rosin. But rosin, while messy, is neutral, so you don't have to worry about the stuff you miss while cleaning.  Alcohol seems to dissolve it.

I prep the PCB ties with a brass brush in a Dremel, just a quick buff. Or some fine sandpaper will work too.  I cut the gaps with a Dremel too.

For soldering I use rosin core (because I have lots of it...) with a little liquid rosin flux applied to the joints.  The other half of the equation is a Weller soldering station with a chisel tip, dialed in to be hot.  Like 700F. With that and the additional flux, a small amount of solder will wick into the joint real quick.

The flux is there to facilitate the alloying process.  Rosin flux is no worse than acid flux, and a little extra really makes a difference. 

The only advantage of acid flux is "easy to find".  Most hardware stores will have it in their plumbing dept.  OTOH, most manufacturers of soldering equipment recommend you don't use it, because it will hasten the erosion of the tip by a large amount. The soldering process will erode the tip, but acid flux speeds it up a lot. It'll eat the iron plating off the tip.

PS: if you use a damp sponge to clean the tip, it's better to use distilled water to wet it.  I prefer to use a rag or paper towel, or one of those bowls of brass turnings. 

 

 

[joe-daddy]

I thought I recalled from the video on the Fasttracks website that they recc. using acid flux, then make sure you wash off the flux after the soldering.  As I recall, the point is that you get a deeper cleansing of the surface that will hold the solder better.  Your experience here? Thanks.

Acid is just bad for anything electrical.  It will eat away at the connection, no matter how hard you try you'll never get all of it.

"Never" would mean that brass locomotives would remain forever hazardous to our layouts, impossible to install DC or DCC electronics. I did not pay alot of attention in Chemistry, but understanding PH was one of those subjects I did seem to grasp.

 I tried soldering with rosin and acid on a turnout yesterday.  Thanks but I'll stick with Tim's advice, when my Fast Track kits arrive next week.

 

Joe 

 

[Pruitt]

Nice work, Jeff!!!

I have a code 83 #6 jig, and it works as well with code 70 (the base of the rail is narrower on code 70 ME rail by .001 inch), from what I read on the fast tracks website (they should know!) I've built several turouts, and they FAR outperform any of the commercial ones I've used, in terms of how smooth the rolling stock crosses the turnouts.

[betamax]

I thought I recalled from the video on the Fasttracks website that they recc. using acid flux, then make sure you wash off the flux after the soldering.  As I recall, the point is that you get a deeper cleansing of the surface that will hold the solder better.  Your experience here? Thanks.

Acid is just bad for anything electrical.  It will eat away at the connection, no matter how hard you try you'll never get all of it.

"Never" would mean that brass locomotives would remain forever hazardous to our layouts, impossible to install DC or DCC electronics. I did not pay alot of attention in Chemistry, but understanding PH was one of those subjects I did seem to grasp.

 I tried soldering with rosin and acid on a turnout yesterday.  Thanks but I'll stick with Tim's advice, when my Fast Track kits arrive next week.

 

Joe 

 

In the electronics industry they do not use acid flux. There is a reason for that: reliability. They do wash off the rosin flux they use, but for some reason, they don't consider acid fluxes to be practical even with cleaning after the solder operation.

Any textbook about soldering will explicitly state that you do not use acid fluxes for any electrical or electronics work. Period.

Part of the secret with soldering or brazing is that the materials must be clean to start with. The flux helps keep it that way during the process, but can't really help with poor prep. Cleaning the copper ties of oxide and using rosin flux works for me.

I also use a chisel tip on a temperature controlled workstation. Works well dialled in around 700F. Low temperatures are half the problem when soldering.

[joe-daddy]

Any textbook about soldering will explicitly state that you do not use acid fluxes for any electrical or electronics work. Period.

True, we in the electronics industry use and recommend non-corrosive fluxes for soldering electrical components. 

However, Betamax, your lecture in regard to Fast Tracks is flacid, in that the use of soldering for building a turnout is not to facilitate electrical connectivity, but to assure maximum mechanical strength.  The turnout is not considered an electrical component until after it is assembled and properly washed. 

For a clear example,  I'd NEVER recommend soldering feeders to track using acid flux.  The purpose of solder in that circumstance is to facilitate electrical connectivity, not mechanical strength; the acid would attack the insulation of the wire as it wicked inside the insulation jacket where washes would be ineffective and  perhaps 'never' be capable of rendering the acid neutral resulting in feeders that might eventually look like little corroded battery cables.

Tim's recommendation to use acid flux is well founded, based upon not only his experience, but a solid understanding of the requirements of his product and the desired outcomes of his customers. 

By the way, Tim also recommends and sells a pointed tip, not a chiseled tip. The most meticulous prep does not eliminate the need for flux.

I'll stick with Tim's advice on how to build a Fast Tracks turnout.  His expertise is built upon experience and solid science.

Regards, 

Joe 

 

 

 

[preceng]

I have Fast Track jigs for #6 and #8 standard turnouts and a #8 Curved 50"R/3"R turnout (all HO scale BTW). I love them. I have only built 2 bad turnouts (out of about 60) so far. These were bad because I screwed up and thought that I could do it better than the instructions. I really love the curved turnouts BTW