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3rd PlanIt is supposed to be really good, but it is not cheap. A technique described in MR a long time ago (1970s?) suggested drawing a line across your layout, and drawing the elevations - giving you a cross section at least. Not fully 3-D, but getting there. The 3rd PlanIt site seems to be down right now (3:30pm Eastern) - www.trackplanning.com This support or user group site is up though - http://3pi.info/fom-bitbag/cache/1.html You might also try (if you haven't yet) the cookie cutter type approach to benchwork, or any other approach than the 4x8 table. You don't say much about your layout, but sometimes just working on the track/roadbed area can suggest other things. Once you see just the area for the track fixed, you might find yourself imagining mountains or lakes in the "open" areas. It is hard to explain, but I hope you know what I mean. If not, I''ll try and find some pictures... [;)] Hope that helps. Andrew
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