More I get into adding hills, bulidings, trees the less I see the trains. Back section has a 13 foot hill / tunnel and only about 10" section where you can see the train. Next that I will be starting soon is the town section. The town will be based on Alton IL, old Mississippi river town with steap bluffs and town bulit on it. I would guess the grade of the town streets that I will model are 30%.
Train will run under that section as well and will cover up about another 7 feet of track. Next is the new bench work that will be K-10 Mining. Of the 5' X 8' section from my main viewing point I will only see apx 5 foot of it, it will be the fun part.
Sometime I think I and others are just not just right. My self I bought so much rolling stock, I have to take it off the bench so I can run the train's. Then I buy more engines than I will ever run. Now I found I like playing with foam, so I cover up the rails that I worked so hard to get right?
At one point I swore I would never spend over $60.00 for a engine, I now have 5 BLI's with sound. They where a little over $60.00 and thats not counting the Protos some where around 10 of them?
Now I am rambling and miss spelling badly.
Cuda Ken have a new sickness again, foam that is, pink gold.
I hate Rust
Ken, I have just under 60 feet of folded loop, with two tunnels, each about 6' long. That is quite long, but it is great for hiding whole trains. Also, if you would consider it, you can have your staging in one of those tunnel areas, as long as you have reasonably easy access.
I wanted to break up the crossing at the fold, so I needed a tunnel there. Also, immediately behind my station and servicing track is the mainline, and I didn't want trains to be seen screaming past...behind the station! So, I have a tunnel there that runs behind the entire yard so that the yard, itself, becomes the focal point. You can see the track that disappears into the hillside in the distance, near the silver tank car.
If you feel you have hidden the trains to much, then why not regroup and have a think about a change? It's only pink gold.
Sounds to me like your enjoying most of the diverse thrills of being a model railroader!
Only the extremely self controlled (or controlled by the "other half") and the ultra space-limited don't get way too much stuff.
As for exposed and hidden tracks... I probably have an extreme in my next plan... about 3/4 will be out of sight.
There is a logic to this. My preferance is to see detailed long trains rolling through highly detailed scenery. Detail takes time. Long trains take space and the more of them there are the more space they take.
So the scenic part will be about 1/2 of the walls round a 16'x12' shed - PLUS storage tracks in an adjacent 16'x8' shed. This will give me somewhere over 200' of storage tracks to two levels of 28' of sceniced layout. Umm that's 56' to 200'... more like 1/5 er...20%.
The thing is that when I run I can have trains emerge into the scenery at line speed and roll through against the background I want. That's the way I choose/like to do things. It goes with the principle that "you can never have too much staging track".
Dave,
Sounds as if you and I are singing on the same page of the hymn book.
I just figured out the situation for the JNR portion of my under-construction double garage filler. Of 154 linear feet of first main track, about 95 feet will be 'off stage.' buried under scenery. An even higher percentage of the second main will be hidden (all of the single track will be visible.) Also buried; staging for 21 freights (five separate staging yards) and nine passenger tracks in two locations (some of which have limited switching capability so consists may be changed between runs.)
All of the above to support one visible engine change point that originates and terminates local freights, one minor country station and about 25 linear feet of rugged countryside between the two.
The entire length of the TTT, my coal-originating short line, will be visible, with tunnels dictated by topography and no staging as such. That makes its visible length almost the same as the visible portion of the JNR. The difference is that the TTT is a minor feeder, while the JNR is a secondary mainline connected at both ends to the rest of Japan's rail network.
I consider the fully modeled, visible trackage to be a stage. In order to support the rather complex play scripted by a full 30 days of 24/7 timetable operation, I need a lot of 'dressing rooms (staging)' and 'wings (concealed thoroughfare tracks)' to assure that the right player will come on stage at the right place and time.
This may not be to everybody's taste. It does satisfy me.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
My new plan is going to be 35 ft mainline and about 3 foot is covered with tunnel. I may have another two foot tunnel--I haven't decided. When I add staging I will have another 30 foot of track added to the mainline loop that will not be seen.
To me the issuse is not whether I will see the train, because I've set up areas where the view of the train will be very good. It is can I reach the train or work on the track if there is a problem. With over half the track hidden. If I want to railfan, I start 3-5 trains in motion and the viewing area always has a variety of trains running through. It's not the same one over and over.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Well, that depends on what you mean by visible, as ol' President Bill used to say. All of my subway tunnels are in view when I turn on the video camera. That was part of the design all along.
Without the camera, the subway network has a short 2-foot run out in the open, and then each of the 3-foot stations is visible at the edge of the layout, side-on. You can peek into the Scollay Square station from the edge also. Most of the subway track can be accessed from lift-offs, in case of derailments. (I'm happy to say that all subway derailments are caused by stupidity, not trackwork. I'm still working on the stupidity.)
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
The circa 1956 Conemaugh Road & Traction is still under design, but just due to layout geography the following has emerged...
[1] 90% - 95% of the CR&T layout, only on the lower level, will be completely visible.
[2] 30% - 50% of the Pennsy layout will be hidden due to it originating on the upper level and going to the lower level "in the valley" to interchange with the CR&T.
The Pennsy trackage will have at least 2-4 times more total trackage than the CR&T. The Pennsy is serving a 2-track mainline sometimes masquerading as a 4-track mainline in appearance.
It appears that visible staging is gaining the upper hand due to the by-product of the entire CR&T layout as an around-the-walls track design. The Pennsy will be prone to a combination of helix, nolix, and spirals. The CR&T will only use spirals and nolix to gain elevation.
Even layout electrical comes from geography & function:
The CR&T portion is geared to interurban passenger & local industry freight switching, and due to livewire overhead will be DC. The Pennsy portion is geared more for continuous running, and will be DCC for unattended or attended operation options. This is why I view "hooray for my side" DC vs. DCC Clubbing debates as childish.
"Givens & Druthers" are having a great impact upon what type of hidden trackage and/or staging is emerging on the CR&T and on the Pennsy.
I view the layout scenery to come only as an extension of what the "Givens & Druthers" has handed to me, and; this is the same way that I view the hidden trackage that is also handed to me. As the modeler, only me-myself-I, am ultimately handing all of this to myself, and only after taking my good 'ole time to come to the final answers.
QUESTION: What are your "Givens & Druthers" starting with time era, operational goals, layout geography, and; how does it relate to the space available and type of benchwork layout?
Your own answer to your own "Givens & Druthers" will greatly impact the percentage of your hidden trackage, and your choice of hidden & visible staging.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Slector my friend, I like what I saw of your bench. Would you mind posting taking us on a tour of your layout with PIC? If you happen to have a track plan you could post that would be great as well.
As far as the section for the town I will take a few PIC Sunday that I am hoping to model and post them later.
Far as hidden stagging, so far mine is in a box under the bench. New section will have some hidden stagging. This is the next project K-10 Minining.
Based on a 5' x 8' section, my viewing point will be the bottom of the PIC.
I will post some up dated PIC of what I have done with the PINK Gold Sunday. I have been adding undergrowth as suggested and found some model wildflowers to add some color. All so need to start making more trees! I am going broke with buying store bought!
By the way, all please post PIC of your moutains, hills, tunnels, bridges and the grades to the upper level of track with a few details of what and why. I am still looking for ideas to steal!
Thanks again for all the answers.
Cuda Ken
I posted this a couple of weeks back, Ken, but you may not have seen it. It shows mostly the yard side of the layout where my DB 150 and the twin DT400 throttles sit in front of the yard. You can see at lower left the same track as I mentioned entering the tunnel to the 6' main running behind the yard.
I have another photo showing the other side of the layout better, although it doesn't show the tunnel portal that would be at extreme lower right. I will have to load it into railimages and then post it, so I'll get back later with that one. In the meantime, you can see just how substantial a portion of the lower main is taken by that tunnel behind the yard. But, it permits flowthrough when the yard is congested, higher main running for limited passenger consists, and helps to focus attention on the yard, as I stated previously.
Okay, here is the second. To the right of the coal train, you can see the track that obviously comes out from the hill, and there is a tunnel portal there. The other end of that tunnel is 12" toward you from the John Deere tractor that you can see at bottom right of the picture. So, both tunnels are on the bottom loop, and both are essentially 6' long, at total nearing 45% of the entire length offered by the lower loop. The upper loop, on the other hand, is completely exposed.
-Crandell
Crandell, good looking layout. Have any more PIC you can post of the track going up the grade and what grade is it? Is the center a lift out or a duck under?
Here are some PIC of Alton IL. With it being 2007 you can still see what it looked like years ago.
Section I have to work with is apx 4' 6" and 6' 5". Base will be Pink Foam Gold ( joke about the foam I used for the hills) and will be a lift off like the hills. I am guess at this point Alton will be about 12 to 15 inches tall. I am think about a lift off river front that will not have any tracks, just water just to keep it looking like Alton IL.
Any more PIC from anyone, still looking for ideas to steal!
River Front Ken, stealing again
cudaken wrote:Here are some PIC of Alton IL. With it being 2007 you can still see what it looked like years ago.
Here is a shot closer to the turntable and roundhouse, Ken, but you can see the rising track just beyond and above it. All my grades on the folded loop main are like it, and between 2.8 and 3.1%
Across the operating pit, about five feet to the right of the last shot, is this one, but facing 180 deg the other way. From this angle, the grade looks closer to 4.5- or 5%, but I can assure you that it is not. The track beyond it is rising and will curve to go behind the roundhouse as you see in the first photo. The juxtaposition of the two, one rising, the other falling, gives the false impression that each is steeper than it really is.
I know this an older post, but it kind of piqued my interest.
Cudaken, I was just wondering...why Alton?
My great uncle was an engineer for GM&O, and my aunt said she could hear his "special toot" on the horn when he pulled in the terminal/yard from 12th Street. Where was the yard? It had to be to the west/south west of Broadway.
I'm just looking for info on the area.
Rotor
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...
BTW...great pics of Alton! It doesn't look much different then when I was there last in 1986.
Thanks for the pics!
Probably close to 60% of my trackage will be hidden when my layout is complete - most of that in the behemoth helix (which has over eight scale miles of track).
Funny thing - I wanted a decent distance between the towns on my layout, and I wanted to capure the prototypical feel of a lone track running for miles across the high plains and through the canyons of Wyoming. To do that I needed a lot of hidden trackage.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Full track plan:
Visible:
I come up with about 200 feet of total track, with 75 feet visible, so 37-38% of the total track is visible.
It must be about 10% of the overall total trackage that is hidden on the club layout.
The entire double track mainline decends under that center peninsula for about 60+ feet. Other staging and run around areas are about another 80'.
I don't know the total lineal ft of track but there must be in excess of 1500 ft w/ all the double track and separate divisions.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org