I'm going to be doing an N scale layout of the UP/BN operations in this area in the '80s. Having a hard time finding out any info. that is more than general in nature. Ironically, I lived in Wyoming for 25 years, including this time frame, but wasn't interested in trains at the time :)
Anyway:
- when did UP and BN start servicing the basin ?
BN had a line from Gillette into the Powder River Basin coming from the north.
The Orin sub built in the late 1970's came in from the south. It was a joint line built by BN; operated by BN / CNW who assumed part of the financing of the project after it as completed.
UP inheirited CNW's trackage rights as part of the CNW devour, I mean merger.
Mailman, what type of "more than general in nature" information are you looking for?
If you have not already, try google.
Regards,
Tom
Tom Bryant_MR wrote: Mailman, what type of "more than general in nature" information are you looking for? If you have not already, try google.Regards,
I'm looking for info. of the type tigerstripe mentions; when lines were built, by whom, who rain on them, etc.
I've already tried Google.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
I hired out in Gillette and worked there for a year. I know I have to be good on here but i do have to say on the joint line there, UP is the biggest bunch of cry babies I have ever seen and they don't even know how to prform there job. Right after getting out of trainning one of by buddies that was in my class had to help a UP guy change a knuckle out cause his train broke in two. My buddy did it all himself cause the goof didn't know how. Also those UP goofs like to make fun of the BNSF guys if they have any trouble. For the biggest railroad they have no respect for others. Now since you are doing the 80's I have to say, that was a proud time cause CNW was there and not UP. But now it's a joke and nothing moves and all we hear is UP crying over every little thing. You chose a great time...CNW will always be in my heart. Sorry to waste your time with that but if your wanting to model the PRB it's good to know how its is and was. Anyway I was talking to a guy who said back in the day there was no ORIN SUB. All there was, was a line to Gillette and south to a few mines which I think ran no farther than Black Thunder Mine which I think is MP. 46 or so. They have added tons of track since I left so I can't say but that is the guess. That's all I can give you but if you want to get in touch with me I can make some calls to the guys there and round up some information for you and get you in touch with them. There a bunch of great guys. Give me a shout at railroaderbmeyer@hotmail.com or ironhorese4723@yahoo.com Bythe way 4723 in the locomotive I had on my second trip and it's the same one on the cover of TAINZ 2004. Get in touch and I will be happy to help you out. Happy holidays.
BNSF_conductor wrote: I hired out in Gillette and worked there for a year. I know I have to be good on here but i do have to say on the joint line there, UP is the biggest bunch of cry babies I have ever seen and they don't even know how to prform there job. Right after getting out of trainning one of by buddies that was in my class had to help a UP guy change a knuckle out cause his train broke in two. My buddy did it all himself cause the goof didn't know how. Also those UP goofs like to make fun of the BNSF guys if they have any trouble. For the biggest railroad they have no respect for others. Now since you are doing the 80's I have to say, that was a proud time cause CNW was there and not UP. But now it's a joke and nothing moves and all we hear is UP crying over every little thing. You chose a great time...CNW will always be in my heart. Sorry to waste your time with that but if your wanting to model the PRB it's good to know how its is and was. Anyway I was talking to a guy who said back in the day there was no ORIN SUB. All there was, was a line to Gillette and south to a few mines which I think ran no farther than Black Thunder Mine which I think is MP. 46 or so. They have added tons of track since I left so I can't say but that is the guess. That's all I can give you but if you want to get in touch with me I can make some calls to the guys there and round up some information for you and get you in touch with them. There a bunch of great guys. Give me a shout at railroaderbmeyer@hotmail.com or ironhorese4723@yahoo.com Bythe way 4723 in the locomotive I had on my second trip and it's the same one on the cover of TAINZ 2004. Get in touch and I will be happy to help you out. Happy holidays.
Great info, thanks. So, UP wasn't even hauling coal in the PRB, in the '80's ? BN and CNW were the main players ?
Late 80s I believe you are looking at CNW Johnstown Coalporters (LBF/E&C shops - great cars but I think thjey had trouble with their wheelsets - all of mine have come without wheels --- and, more recently, Walthers) with SD60s (P2K)/(Athearn) ... the Dash 8 40Cs, originally with Spartan Cabs and then wide cabs (Bachman Spectrum for both and -IIRC- Atlas for Spartans ... the more recent Bachmans are a vast improvement the older ones were just about up to Athearn standard... be warey if you look on E Bay). Then you get into all the Wide Cab stuff and lightning liveries. Powder River Coal kept CNW alive... revived it... and made it worth UP buying. UP might be a pain to CNW lovers but without the coal and the UP the lines might simply have been abandoned.
Earlier 80s you can use endless SD40-2s labouring away in their 2nd or 3rd livery. CNW got power hungry and bought SD40s, SD45s and SD40-2s where they could. Some of them were shoved into service in their more recent livery with just the letters CNW and a new road number. Others got the CNW Emblem ... I've seen it on patched BN and Conrail colours and at least one black loco... NW or NS??? NW could become CNW by painting on an equale size C on freight cars at least. The black loco was a high short nose (SD45?? NS??).
OOPS! My info is for H0
As far as I can tell the Wisconsin Alcos (C628) were worn out hauling ore and didn't make it into Powder River coal traffic... except on my layout 'cos I like Alcos!
Dave-the-Train wrote: Late 80s I believe you are looking at CNW Johnstown Coalporters (LBF/E&C shops - great cars but I think thjey had trouble with their wheelsets - all of mine have come without wheels --- and, more recently, Walthers) with SD60s (P2K)/(Athearn) ... the Dash 8 40Cs, originally with Spartan Cabs and then wide cabs (Bachman Spectrum for both and -IIRC- Atlas for Spartans ... the more recent Bachmans are a vast improvement the older ones were just about up to Athearn standard... be warey if you look on E Bay). Then you get into all the Wide Cab stuff and lightning liveries. Powder River Coal kept CNW alive... revived it... and made it worth UP buying. UP might be a pain to CNW lovers but without the coal and the UP the lines might simply have been abandoned.Earlier 80s you can use endless SD40-2s labouring away in their 2nd or 3rd livery. CNW got power hungry and bought SD40s, SD45s and SD40-2s where they could. Some of them were shoved into service in their more recent livery with just the letters CNW and a new road number. Others got the CNW Emblem ... I've seen it on patched BN and Conrail colours and at least one black loco... NW or NS??? NW could become CNW by painting on an equale size C on freight cars at least. The black loco was a high short nose (SD45?? NS??).OOPS! My info is for H0As far as I can tell the Wisconsin Alcos (C628) were worn out hauling ore and didn't make it into Powder River coal traffic... except on my layout 'cos I like Alcos!
Thanks Dave ! Yep, that's a big problem I've been discovering; very few N scale locos in the CNW colors, especially for my purposes in this future layout.
May have to change my time frame to the '90s, after CNW was no longer in the picture.
You should try Trains Magazine Forum. There is a Mr Mark Hemphill editor to the magazine I think who is very knowledgeable about that subject. I know he helped me a lot with the same type of question about central California and the Feather River Route a few years ago
Chris
CFournier wrote: You should try Trains Magazine Forum. There is a Mr Mark Hemphill editor to the magazine I think who is very knowledgeable about that subject. I know he helped me a lot with the same type of question about central California and the Feather River Route a few years agoChris
Thanks Chris, will do.
That does bring to mind a question I've been pondering. How much fuel does it take to haul, say, 19,000 ton of coal, say, 500 miles? For my purposes, I'm looking for total fuel consuption for the loaded one-way trip. I was just wondering how much cheaper (fuelwise) the RR's haul it than trucks can.
Brad
EMD - Every Model Different
ALCO - Always Leaking Coolant and Oil
CSX - Coal Spilling eXperts
Try this Mailman
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/140289/ShowPost.aspx
CFournier wrote: Try this Mailmanhttp://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/140289/ShowPost.aspx
Yeah, found that a few days ago via search, but thanks !
twcenterprises wrote: That does bring to mind a question I've been pondering. How much fuel does it take to haul, say, 19,000 ton of coal, say, 500 miles? For my purposes, I'm looking for total fuel consuption for the loaded one-way trip. I was just wondering how much cheaper (fuelwise) the RR's haul it than trucks can.Brad
Don't have exact figures for you, but fwiw noticed in a small article in the latest issue of Trains, that a ton of PRB coal sells for just under $8, and that the bulk of the bill a utility company pays for the coal, is for the transport of it, vs the actual cost of the coal itself.