I recently attended a model train show at my church with my kids. I then decided, that after a 15 year hiatus from model railroading, that I would set my old HO trains up for the holidays by throwing some track down on a sheet of plywood for under the tree. Simple, right? I quickly realized that I was getting the itch again and that, wouldnt be enough to scratch my itch. I needed to do this right. So I started to make "permanent" track plans. Now, I've been out of the loop (no pun intended) for awhile, so bear with me till I get my bearings straight and reaquanted with the lingo.
My question is, that the fire department that I run with is replacing several old wooden folding tables (the kind with metal legs and framing- the framing and legs are falling apart). Is it feasable to use these table tops as benchwork by rebuilding the legs and framing by using 4x4's and 2x4's, or is there a reason why I should steer clear of this altogether. The table tops are approx. 3 ft wide by approx. 6-8 ft long, they seem like an ideal size without having to do alot of extra cutting/altering. Also, (REALLY STUPID QUESTIONS), why is it neccessary to put foam (subroadbed?) down over your benchwork before laying track and scenery? Why, cant you just lay your track down over the bare benchwork, and build your scenery around it?
I was in high school the last time I ventured into this, and I didnt have alot of cash to spend, or room to build, so my layout was primitive to say the least. I hope to have more success this time around.
The best way to get strated is to PLAN you work, then, work your plan. Get a track plan in mind before starting out. A space diagram is a good thing so if you and the kids like it you can expand to bigger things. HO has come a LONG way and you will be surprised how good they are and how good they look.
1. Flat tabel top with just the track nailed to it is like putting your head in a Grabage can and hitting it, not good.
2. Withe the WS foam track bed it is a piece of cake. NO NAILS just use CLEAR Latex Caulk and glue the faom to the table and the track to the foam.
3. Think about DCC if to much $$$$ then get a GOOD DC power pack. MRC Tech series is the best even if their DCC stinks.
4. If you can plan around a real railroad is is cheaper than a freelance design and operation. (DON"T ASK)
5. Ask questions and this forum will try and keep things on "TRACK" (sorry could not help myself)
Welcome and ditto on what claycts has said.
Specific to your question, those 3 x 6 ft tables will just barely allow an 18" radius curve to turn a train. In HO scale that is considered a tight radius and will limit the length of cars you can run and the locos also. So, some planning is in order. I recommend:
Put down those trains on plywwod for now and have some fun. Get a couple of copies of MR magazine and do some reading to catch up.
Then, make two lists
1) Givens. These are things that would be difficult to alter. Examples, how much space do you have to dedicate a layout to (a whole room, garage, basement or dining room table) or, how much time, or how much cash etc.
2) Druthers. These are your personal wants. I want to run steam or diesel (or both), I want to run freight or passenger (or both), I love doing scenery, I love switching trains etc.
Between these two lists you will see there are maybe some things that are at odds with each other and you will then have to compromise. That is the point where you will be moving from the Dream part to the Plan part.
Regards,
Tom
Welcome back. And welcome to the forums!
If those are the notorious folding banquet tables the actual width is 30 inches, way too narrow to use for a turnback curve in anything but HO traction (streetcars.) Also, the tops are impervious to anything except a sharp twist drill, so driving spikes or track nails into them is the impossible dream - rendered easy by as little as 1/2 inch of foam and roadbed material (cork, Homasote or whatever.) I've used a couple of those tables for years - but not as the basis of a layout.
One way they CAN be used, if you have the space, is to take four and put them up in a square or rectangular configuration - a squared-off donut which might be 8.5 feet square (4 six-footers,) 10.5 feet square or a rectangle 8 by 13 feet (4 eight-footers) or a rectangle 8 by 11 (2 of each.)
Another possibility is to use five, two side by side at each end with one connecting them in a fat-ended C shape. Minimum space would be six feet by 16 feet (all six footers,) and both ends should be accessible. If you use four eight footers for the ends the width would go up to eight feet. This is a nice size for a single garage stall.
One advantage is that the table sizes are readily moveable when, as and if necessary. One disadvantage is that they are pretty heavy to start with, and putting a railroad on top will make them even heavier. I would consider them as an interim solution - a place to build a simple starter layout while dreaming and planning its more complex successor.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Well, here we are a year later, and I'm not any further ahead than I was last year this time. My subscription to MR is about to run out, and not likely to get renewed. I think I now know why I fizzled out on this hobby so many years ago. Just by reading some of the threads on this forum, overwhelms me to say the least, and the articles in MR, although well written, seem to do the same, and I usually find myself looking at the pretty pictures more than anything. The cost factor alone is enough to make my head spin. All of my equipment, including rolling stock, track, etc, is all very antiquated, and I just cant justify the cost in upgrading it all. And that doesnt even touch the DCC technology...I havent even built the benchwork, or even bought the material to build it yet. ALthough I do own a fairly decent sized house, it still seems as though there just isnt enough room to build even small layout without inconveniecing the rest of my family. I do have an area in my basement that may be suitable, but not without alot of remodeling, and its an area only several feet away from my furnace, which probably wouldnt be good for any layout. Electrical accessabilty would also be an issue.
For the few weeks that the trains were set up for the holidays last year, I found myself having to constantly clean the track surface just to keep an uninterupted operation, only to realize that much of my track, although appearing to be well set, was uneven, causing the inevitable derailment, frustrating both me and my kids.
I revamped my holiday track plan for this year, in a last ditch effort, hoping to maybe light some sort of a spark to keep me motivated, but I just dont know....with the cost factor, lack of knowledge, family and fire department obligations, combined with a pretty demanding work schedule, maybe I've found enough reasons/excuses to just pack away the trains for good.
Whoa is me...I guess I'll go eat worms.
Yep, you've made enough excuses for a couple of people!
With retirees on a fixed income finding ways to participate in the hobby, money's not really the problem you suggest.
With apartment-dwellers finding room for a layout of some kind, space isn't really the problem you suggest.
Dirty track? Did you use nickle-silver track, which barely needs to be cleaned for many folks, or brass, which needs a lot of attention?
Poorly laid track? Yep, that'll cause problems. But you can learn how to do it right.
DCC? Lots of us don't use it.
Demanding work schedule? Who doesn't have one nowadays? I often work 12-hour days and sometimes weekends. You make the time for things that matter.
When you became a member of the fire department, I'll bet you barely knew a pumper from a tower. (Never mind a quint or a squirt!) But you learned. You asked questions. Found out what a supply line is and what an inch-and-a-half does.
You didn't just look at the fire engine calendars from the mall, sigh, and think, "I could never learn all the stuff I need to be a firefighter."
You could have a rewarding hobby in model railroading, if you ask questions and learn how it's done.
No matter what excuses you have now.
I would suggest picking up the December 2007 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman. It has a nice center section on four easy-to-build HO layouts using an easy and inexpensive ($100 or less) 4'x8' layout table and "snap together" sectional track - the kind that has the roadbed included. That's what you need to do in my opinion, build a nice small layout, get a chance to do some scenery work and run trains.
As far as money...well, on a small layout, how many engines do you need?? I would say get one or two new small to medium engines, but get good ones with sound installed. A GP or a 2-8-0 with sound is going to run you maybe $150 each, but it will be all you'll need and will make running trains that much more fun.
It's easy to get caught up in the fantastic layouts of "the masters" in Model Railroader, but they pretty much all started out small too. Don't fret about this or that not being as good as the top guys, remember Al Kalmbach's motto -
"MODEL RAILROADING IS FUN" !!!
WagonTender wrote: My question is, that the fire department that I run with is replacing several old wooden folding tables (the kind with metal legs and framing- the framing and legs are falling apart). Is it feasable to use these table tops as benchwork by rebuilding the legs and framing by using 4x4's and 2x4's, or is there a reason why I should steer clear of this altogether. The table tops are approx. 3 ft wide by approx. 6-8 ft long, they seem like an ideal size without having to do alot of extra cutting/altering. Also, (REALLY STUPID QUESTIONS), why is it neccessary to put foam (subroadbed?) down over your benchwork before laying track and scenery? Why, cant you just lay your track down over the bare benchwork, and build your scenery around it?Edit: Just realized I was replying to an old post...Your situation is a lot like mine - not a lotta cash, not a lotta time, a rough basement, and antiquated material. Maybe you can use the same solution - put up a 4 x 8 and start playing with trains. Start the track off with a good cleaning, and maybe a GLEAMing. Start the layout off as an oval and just run trains around it a bit. Don't nail the track down, even. Add spurs here and there, change the plan a little bit, see what you like. Use any old DC pack. My V & E is still wired as 1 block, 2 wires, run by an old Ampack. Eventually I'll do more, but right now I'm having fun running 1 train at a time.Relax and have fun. Listen to advice, but don't worry if you can't follow it. People like to be helpful, but don't let it overwhelm you.
Edit: Just realized I was replying to an old post...
Your situation is a lot like mine - not a lotta cash, not a lotta time, a rough basement, and antiquated material. Maybe you can use the same solution - put up a 4 x 8 and start playing with trains. Start the track off with a good cleaning, and maybe a GLEAMing. Start the layout off as an oval and just run trains around it a bit. Don't nail the track down, even. Add spurs here and there, change the plan a little bit, see what you like. Use any old DC pack. My V & E is still wired as 1 block, 2 wires, run by an old Ampack. Eventually I'll do more, but right now I'm having fun running 1 train at a time.
Relax and have fun. Listen to advice, but don't worry if you can't follow it. People like to be helpful, but don't let it overwhelm you.
WT:
If the table tops are 1/2" plywood, and they're big enough for your scale, you could reuse them. The main reason to use foam is that it can make a lightweight table top, and it can be carved for scenery. You don't need to use it. My track is laid right on the plywood top. It's not actually that loud, but it's not yet nailed down, either. When I get the layout completely figured out, I'm putting down cork.
One or both of those tables, end-to-end, could be the base for a super yard. If you have the room, treat this material as a resource, but only in the context of something grander that will be fun to operate over the long term.
As stated by several others, 18" radius curves are about rock bottom in terms of looks and utility for most of us in the hobby...unless we are modelling back-woods or mining track, or something found down the middle of a street, or in a back lane in Downtownsville.
It is highly likely that you will evolve in your tastes with the hobby, since virtually every one of us does. That often means bigger nastier locomotives. If even one of those is a steamer, it will have a dickens of a time running well on your early attempts at 18" radii. And, it will look goofy to you to boot. So, find a way to get curves in the 24-28" range if you possibly can; that gives you room to grow. It also looks so much better. Simply use those tables as a yard surface, a whole 'nuther type of operation that really keeps an otherwise loopy-tracked layout interesting and fun enough to want to operate it 6 months after you have been at it.
My
Sounds to me like Wagon Tender had an HO train set years ago that he played with and enjoyed. Once the trains were packed away, other obligations and interests took over.
Since the hollidays last year sparked an interest and there were some tables being discarded the thought arose to revive the old trains and have the same fun he had years ago. Then after a year of review has discovered he really doesn't have the desire to build a model railroad layout.
Everyone encounters bumps in the road whether it be space, time, cost, etc. What it comes down to is a desire to build a layout.
I built a room in my basement for my layout. That took almost a year. I've been in the benchwork mode for over 9 months. I've been discouraged several times and have changed my plan at least four times. However, I still have the desire to build a layout. Like many modelers I spend a few hours a week working on my layout.
I believe Wagon Tender got the "train bug" last year and has found he really isn't into model railroading like he thought. With all the excuses it's best he let it go.
Just my honest opinion
Bill
selector wrote: As stated by several others, 18" radius curves are about rock bottom in terms of looks and utility for most of us in the hobby...unless we are modelling back-woods or mining track, or something found down the middle of a street, or in a back lane in Downtownsville. It is highly likely that you will evolve in your tastes with the hobby, since virtually every one of us does. That often means bigger nastier locomotives. If even one of those is a steamer, it will have a dickens of a time running well on your early attempts at 18" radii. And, it will look goofy to you to boot. So, find a way to get curves in the 24-28" range if you possibly can; that gives you room to grow. It also looks so much better.
It is highly likely that you will evolve in your tastes with the hobby, since virtually every one of us does. That often means bigger nastier locomotives. If even one of those is a steamer, it will have a dickens of a time running well on your early attempts at 18" radii. And, it will look goofy to you to boot. So, find a way to get curves in the 24-28" range if you possibly can; that gives you room to grow. It also looks so much better.
s:
You're right about the big steam. Actually, modern-era modelers have it worse than the raving steam nuts. They have those 89-foot monstrosities to deal with. It's easy enough to eliminate them, but when you start trying to knock out the six-axle diesels and 65' cars you really start limiting the prototypes heavily (though there still are plenty of places that see few cars over 60', coal mines for example.) Go back a few years, and you can run a really nice steam road with Consolidations, Atlantics, and Ten-Wheelers, and maybe even some bigger stuff. I like the classics more than the superpower, anyhow.
Of course, you have to go a lot farther back if you want to run mainline passenger service without long cars. Go back to 1870 and you can run anything the prototype had on 18"R.
As for interest or lack of it, I find that this can change...and change back. Story time.
A few years ago, I thought I was sick of the hobby, and sold, gave away, and threw out just about everything. I now realize that what had actually happened is that I was very busy with other things, but I was trying to be a Super Modeler and do Big Things. The layout I was trying to build was an around-the-wall design, on a narrow shelf, with stations far apart. What little I finished looked great with a train on it, but it couldn't be operated.
It sat there, unused, causing stress, because I had no time to finish it, but I wanted to finish it, so I could have fun and relax. It became a job. It wasn't fun.
Later on, I began to realize: I still read magazines. I still sketch up plans. I still consider myself a "model railroader". Time to try again. So I went to work on some plans.
I planned and I planned, until I realized that planning was becoming a very boring job. For probably a year, this process went round and round this obnoxious circle. I had benchwork sections sitting around, but I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with them...I wanted to make sure everything was perfect before starting.
Then, at the train show, I saw a Marklin layout. It was small. It was a loop. It was on a green grass mat. Looking at that, I realized - I don't want perfection. I wanna play with trains, damn it! So I scrapped all my plans, bolted those benchwork sections up, and covered them with a big old piece of CDX, and started playing with trains. Now, when I get too stressed out or tired from work and home, I can retire to my basement lair and spend a few minutes shuffling Tyco cars around.
I don't, of course, want that Marklin layout. I want something more realistic than that. I find, however, that a most important part of this hobby is to be sure that it remains a hobby. Make it a job, and you're headed off the rails.