Rookie questions

[warhammerdriver]

I've been lurking here for about a week and now have more questions than ever before! Please forgive me if they've been asked before, but sifting thru 150 pages of posts and threads is not my idea of fun. [:D]

1) I had drawn up a track plan for a 4x8 layout to learn track laying and wiring. Then I was going to build a 12' dog bone layout based on the layout in Small railroads you can build (edited by Bob Hayden). Should I scrap the 4x8 plan and jump right into the 12 footer?

2) What would be the smallest layout you would recommend installing a DCC system in?

3) Is DCC really necessary for a layout designed to be operated by a maximum of 2 people, most often operated by only one person?

I downloaded xtrackcad (sp) and will re-do my 12' dogbone and upload the plan.

Thanks in advance.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by warhammerdriver
1) I had drawn up a track plan for a 4x8 layout to learn track laying and wiring. Then I was going to build a 12' dog bone ... Should I scrap the 4x8 plan and jump right into the 12 footer?

I guess it depends on how much of the 4x8 would be re-usable in the other. But if you think about it there isn't really that much difference between a 4x8 and a 4x12. If on the other hand you are talking about a 12x12.... Make the 4x8 so it would become part of the larger layout.

QUOTE: 2) What would be the smallest layout you would recommend installing a DCC system in?

Any layout where two trains are going to be run simultaniously (reguardless of size)

QUOTE: 3) Is DCC really necessary for a layout designed to be operated by a maximum of 2 people, most often operated by only one person?

DCC isn't necessary period. It is just a whole lot easier and a whole lot more fun. Even for one person, especially for two. Any time two or more locomotives are on the track at the same time, it is worth it.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by warhammerdriver

I've been lurking here for about a week and now have more questions than ever before! Please forgive me if they've been asked before, but sifting thru 150 pages of posts and threads is not my idea of fun. [:D]

Mine neither.. But sometimes it's necassary..

QUOTE:
1) I had drawn up a track plan for a 4x8 layout to learn track laying and wiring. Then I was going to build a 12' dog bone layout based on the layout in Small railroads you can build (edited by Bob Hayden). Should I scrap the 4x8 plan and jump right into the 12 footer?

You'll find that a lot of people here are toxic towards the standard 4x8.. However, it depends on your purpose for building the initial layout (you'll likely build more than one). They can be a great place to learn how to get things done and can get you running trains in a relatively short time.. Expanding to 12 feet will naturally get you more trackage and give a few more possiblilities but it's still a 4 foot deep oval type arangement.. Not that it's bad, there are huge basement empires that are nothing more than a large circle of track.. I would suggest starting with the smaller, learn the ins and outs of building a layout, decide what you like and don't like and then expand.. Also too, if you have perminant space to set up a layout, you might consider a 2 foot deep shelf arangement around the room (or space)..

QUOTE:
2) What would be the smallest layout you would recommend installing a DCC system in?

1' x 4'.. If more than one operator but that's just me..

QUOTE:
3) Is DCC really necessary for a layout designed to be operated by a maximum of 2 people, most often operated by only one person?

No but it makes things simpler in the long run.. For that type of a crew however, the startup cost might be a little steep. If cost isn't an issue, I'd say go for it..

QUOTE:
I downloaded xtrackcad (sp) and will re-do my 12' dogbone and upload the plan.

Thanks in advance.

Show us what you come up with..

Good luck,
Jeff

http://www.rolleiman.com/trains/clinic2p1.html

[ericboone]

1) If the 4x8 is in the corner of a room, it can be difficult to access the side against the wall. This is were the dogbone plan will help.

2) Anytime you will be able to run more than one locomotive at a time, you should get DCC.

3) Go with DCC. To run more than one train at a time, DC requires complicated block wiring. With DC, even if you only plan to run one locomotive at a time, if you have multiple locos on the layout, you must be able to turn off the power to the track on which the loco is parked. Wiring for DCC is a breeze and the starter sets are relatively inexpensive. Also, if you start putting decoders into locos from the start (or getting DCC equiped locos), then there will be no big expense to upgrade a large fleet of locos.

[ereimer]

1) go for the 12 footer but start slow and careful . why start over after doing all the work on the 4x8 ?
2) i agree with Tex
3) i agree with Tex

[selector]

Make sure you can easily reach into any part of the layout to recover derailed rolling stock and locos. If you are reaching further than about 30", you are asking for trouble...broken something, or toppled table? And, if you think that might be tough, wait until you have to repair a switch reaching that far!

I can't emphasize how important DCC is for someone who wants to run more than one locomotive on his/her layout at the same time...on the same track. DC needs some complicated wiring to do that, and you will never get all the capabilities of DCC. If you can bring yourself to spend an extra $150-$200, you can get a loco with sound built in AND a decent DCC starter system for a controller.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Make sure you can easily reach into any part of the layout to recover derailed rolling stock and locos. If you are reaching further than about 30", you are asking for trouble...broken something, or toppled table? And, if you think that might be tough, wait until you have to repair a switch reaching that far!

This a very important issue. I year ago, when I started, I did not consider reaching everything as a big deal but now that I have a few months of hands on experience I am a believer. Once scenery is in place even items close to the front can be hard to work on without causing destruction.

If you want to start small build parts of your 12" dog-bone in sections. You could build the two end loops and later move them apart and add the long center run.

QUOTE: I can't emphasize how important DCC is for someone who wants to run more than one locomotive on his/her layout at the same time...on the same track. DC needs some complicated wiring to do that, and you will never get all the capabilities of DCC. If you can bring yourself to spend an extra $150-$200, you can get a loco with sound built in AND a decent DCC starter system for a controller.

To start in DC you need a good power supply, $50.00 to $60.00 and a quality locomotive, $90.00.

To start with DCC NEC's Power Cab would on be about $80.00 more than a good power pack. The Bachman DCC set is about the same cost as a good MRC transformer. Adding a basic decoder to quality locomotive would only be about $30.00 more.

If I was starting over I would skip the DC step and go straight into DCC. Whatever you do stay away from the cheap toy set transformers.

[pcarrell]

Welcome hammer,

In answer to your questions I would have to say I build the bigger one unless you could incorporate the smaller one into the larger. Then go ahead with the smaller. Just go slow enough that you learn but not so slow you never finish. Keep reading and asking questions.

Now for your other questions. There are some that would say that a small layout doesn't need DCC. This is true if you are the only person running it and you are only running one loco at a time. Once you go beyond that, DCC really shines. On smaller layouts it becomes even more important because if you were running DC your blocks would necessarily be small due to the layouts small size. you would be throwing block toggles all the time just to keep your trains moving. Not so with DCC. You just punch up the loco address on your controller and away you go. Another operator needs a loco, no problem. He just punches his loco up and away he goes. You can both go anywhere the rails take you. Just be sure that they don't take you into each other (cornfield meets are possible in DCC!).

And keep asking questions. Thats what we're here for. [8D]

[warhammerdriver]

Sorry folks, I mis-spoke about the 12 footer. It's a 14 footer that needs a total re-design. It was designed for the garage at my old house. My new garage has only one wall I can use, and there's a wood stove involved. I want to keep the layout at least 3 feet from the wood stove, so back to the drawing board I go. (The 14 foot plan would only be about a foot from the stove.)

Based on this new development, I'm gonna go ahead and set up the 4x8. The plan calls for only 3 blocks in DC, one's a siding, one's 90% of the main, and the third is the interchange track/mini-yard/loco servicing area. Plus I have 99% of the materials "in stock". All I need are the three switches for the block control.

The 4x8 will allow me to test my rolling stock. It's been in storage for about 12 years.

I definitely will build the big layout for DCC, tho. And the 4x8's components will be recycled into the 12 footer.

Thanks for all your input. There is a LOT of good info here. You guys (and gals) are a great resource.

Thanks again
WHD

[selector]

I don't know what your code parameters are for distance to a wood burning appliance, but in British Columbia, it is 19"....yup, that is all. I have a good sized one that has the layout exactly 19" away on one side, and the back of a couch on the other. I get that thing good and hot for about four hours out of each 10 hour day of burning, and the materials on either side of it get only warm to the touch. You will probably be able to reclaim some of that 36" you are talking about. Certainly take back one foot.

Your call, of course.

[warhammerdriver]

I'll be seeing my local code officer this week on an unrelated matter. I definitely will ask him. Might use aluminum flashing on that side of the layout for fascia to reflect some of the heat.

Cutting 2 feet out and flipping the yard to the other end is turning into a nightmare. I'd much rather cut out one foot.

[warhammerdriver]

Spoke with my local code officer tonight and he said that the layout would basically be considered furniture and common sense is the only rule that would apply. Especially if the layout was mobile. I'm taking back that foot, redesigning at 13 feet long, and mounting the whole layout on lockable casters. That should make maintenance and dealing with derailments easier, too.

[Medina1128]

My first layout started out as a ubiquitous 4'x8' layout. Then when the ex-wife ran into the garage door (this gave me an excuse to frame in a wall), it just sorta mutated into this "took over the whole 2 car garage" affair. It's easy to get lost and whammo, you have a full fledged empire.... (staring starry-eyed into space....)

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by warhammerdriver
Based on this new development, I'm gonna go ahead and set up the 4x8. The plan calls for only 3 blocks in DC, one's a siding, one's 90% of the main, and the third is the interchange track/mini-yard/loco servicing area. Plus I have 99% of the materials "in stock". All I need are the three switches for the block control.

I strongly suggest you use at least 5 blocks — one for the siding, and at least 4 for the main track. This will increase your operating flexibility and options. If you do run 2 trains, you'll be able to have one empty block between them.

[Anonymous]

Hey guys,

I am considering getting back into model railroading. I was a member of a club in NE MS that burned down a few years ago, got out of the hobby and now having thoughts of setting up my own layout in my basement. I basically have room to build whatever I want to.... but need some direction at what to build and buy.

I came into the club (that burned) after all the benchwork was done, so I need a good source for helping understand what I need to do, on benchwork. What is a good source for learning to do benchwork?

I also had some expericenc with Digitrax DCC systems. What is the best DCC system at the lowest cost? (if that is possible?) Digitrax was about all that was out there when I was in the hobby before.

Thanks for your help and directon !

Cheers, Rob
"hotshot charlie"

[Anonymous]

I have one question for you. Do you want to operate trains or watch them go roundy roundy? If you want to operate trains then there is no layout too small for DCC. Along those same lines I personally think you would happier with an out and back style layout instead of a roundy roundy.

[Anonymous]

Not roundy, roundy.... a working setup, out and back.