multiple auto reverse modules

[Anonymous]

I have two loops (red and blue) that will have auto reverse modules. My questions are:

1) should I wire the green turnout sections with the main or with the loops they extend from?

2) should I split the main, and if so, where?

3) is it possible to have the orange section (connects main to blue at bottom of image) controlled by a auto reverse module, and if so, where should I connect it?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Sorry, the image is a bit cruel.

[Anonymous]

For another visual, this was the new layout a week ago.

Since this photos, all track is now down. Switch machines are mounted, and wire is underway.

My goal is for my son to be able to try his new trains on it at Christmas.

[FCnota]

I might be wrong (I have been before), but afterlooking at your pic., I would wire the green sections to the loop they extend from. As far as the orange section, you need to isolate it from the blue and black sections, and put an autoreverse unit in there. It shouldn't matter which end.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the input. I was thinking it would be easier to wire with the loops, but it never hurts to ask.

I was (still?) not sure what would happen when I run from the main, over the orange, and then hit the blue if a module was on that leg. I have zero experience with DCC assembly and have not seen anything in print that addresses this particular problem.

[Texas Zepher]

I would wire the orange segment with the black. This is because the important thing is for a train (the electrical conducting parts) not to be hitting two "transitional" areas at the same time. Usually this is not a problem if only the locomotives use power. But if you are running lighted passenger trains and/or lighted caboose it could become an issue. By wiring it with the black and a train is just circulating on the inside cut off loop, there are two sections that are a 180 degree curve and a straight for each. Almost equal distance. That means there is less chance of having a locomotive going from black to blue at the bottom transition while the caboose is going from blue to black at the top!

If there was always only going to be one train, this whole thing could be done with one auto reverser on the black segment.

Edit - I'm sorry I didn't answer the original question. Yes, the orange segment could be its own auto reverse segment. In that case, its input side would be wired directly to the DCC supply or bus, not to either track. Also it wouldn't matter if an Orange to Blue, and a Black to Orange transition happened simultaniously, since they would could switch independently.

The green tracks should just get power from where they are branching off from. Otherwise the auto reversers would be flipping back and forth entirely too frequently. And as my main point above, some of those segments are too short so a single locomotive could be crossing two transistions at a time.

[dehusman]

The tracks beaking off the red segment should be red.

The blue track in classical wiring should only be the section that forms the "crossover" between the loop sides. The blue section that forms the other end of the big oval can be black.

The modifications to the blue track will let the orange track be part of the black section.

In the end, the blue section will only the be the "big crossover" between both sides of the oval and the spurs breaking of of it (one spur) and the red section will be the upper loop and the one spur that breaks off of it. Everything else can be black.

Dave H.

[MisterBeasley]

Oh, where is Randy when we really need him?

I would personally use 2 reversers, one on the Red Loop, and one on the Blue Loop, with insulators exactly where you've drawn them in light blue (I think.) You could wire just the short segment of the Blue Loop as Dave suggests, but that would be a very short reverser section, and it would be prone to ping-ponging even with relatively short trains. As Zepher pointed out, this happens not just with locomotives, but with lighted passenger cars and cabeese. It also can happen with any car that has metal wheels, particularly if it has metal trucks. So, as another rule of thumb, you should try to make your reverse sections longer than the longest train you plan to run.

I bought the Tony's Trains house brand of reverser, by the way. They are all solid-state (no relays) and they work very fast. They also provide built-in circuit breaker protection for the reverse loop they cover, so a short in the loop won't shut down the main.

(EDIT) I changed "Orange Loop" to "Red Loop"

[Anonymous]

Thanks to all for the great feedback. Your comments have made me look at things a bit different, and what I am now seeing is that the orange section is for all intensive purposes just shortening the main; it is not necessarily a different track and should not need a module.

Is this a correct observation?

This particular table is for my son. I do not anticipate getting him any lighted cars as he wanted to run a gravel pit. Also the nicer lighted cars are a bit large for the 18” radius on these loops. That said, all the rolling stock will/do have metal wheels.

Quote: MisterBeasley
“So, as another rule of thumb, you should try to make your reverse sections longer than the longest train you plan to run.”

I was not sure if that would apply to the orange section as it would be running back to the blue loop which is controlled by a module. I’ll take my dunce cap off in about an hour.

For what it’s worth, I purchased MRC AD520’s.

[MisterBeasley]

Oh, sorry. Now that I look at this on a better monitor (mine, not the POS at work) I see that the loop at the top is RED, not orange. I edited my post above. I apologize for any confusion beyond what I normally provide.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by shortlong
Your comments have made me look at things a bit different, and what I am now seeing is that the orange section is for all intensive purposes just shortening the main; it is not necessarily a different track and should not need a module.

Is this a correct observation?

Yes, but still consider the train length thing.

QUOTE:

QUOTE:
Quote: MisterBeasley
“So, as another rule of thumb, you should try to make your reverse sections longer than the longest train you plan to run.”

I was not sure if that would apply to the orange section as it would be running back to the blue loop which is controlled by a module.

Yes, it always applies. I forgot [:I] about all the shorts of all those metal wheels. I am still mostly a plastic wheel person.

I agree with MisterBeasley, just making the one crossover track the reversing section would be pretty short, and really restrict the length of a train.

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by shortlong
I have two loops (red and blue) that will have auto reverse modules. My questions are:

1. should I wire the green turnout sections with the main or with the loops they extend from?


2. should I split the main, and if so, where?


3. is it possible to have the orange section (connects main to blue at bottom of image) controlled by a auto reverse module, and if so, where should I connect it?

To answer your first and last questions, I'm going to deal with each reversing loop on its own.

First, the red one...
The straight section between the black track and the green siding is technically not part of your reversing loop. The loop actually begins at the turn-out to the green siding and continues until the red track rejoins the black. This means you can wire the green siding as you would the black track.

Now, the blue one ...
This is a bit more complex; but only slightly. Like the red one, most of the blue track is actually not a reversing loop. The only part that needs to be wired as a reversing loop is the section between the turn-out to the orange track and where the blue rejoins the black. The curved section of blue track; the orange track; and the green sidings that go off these tracks can be wired as though they were black. However, the green siding off the blue track (near the turn-out for the orange track) should be wired the same as the reversing section of blue track.

The orange track is not a reversing loop because the train returns to the black track going in the same direction as it was before. Therefore, the orange track can be wired the same as the black.

A reversing loop is a situation where, should the train continue it ends up on the same track as before but going in the opposite direction. Calling it a loop can make it a bit confusing since not all loops result in a train reversing direction. With your plan, as a train travels in a counter-clockwise direction on the black track, it enters the blue track. While it does loop back, it has not yet reversed direction. Only when it gets to the turnout for the orange track does it have the option of reversing direction (by continuing on the blue track resulting in the train travelling in a clockwise direction (this is the true reversing section)), or continuing along the orange track, rejoining the black track going in the original counter-clockwise direction.

---

To answer your second question regarding where to break your black main. I would use your turnouts as natural locations to create blocks. You can put one pair of insulating track joiners at or near each turn-out. Each siding should be its own block as well.

[Anonymous]

chateauricher,

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher
Now, the blue one ...
This is a bit more complex; but only slightly. Like the red one, most of the blue track is actually not a reversing loop. The only part that needs to be wired as a reversing loop is the section between the turn-out to the orange track and where the blue rejoins the black.

I can certainly see a benefit in changing the green loop start location to where you indicated as it may alleviate problems when backing stock onto the siding.

Following the rule (that I was so appropriately reminded of by MisterBeasley) that a reversing section should be longer than the longest train, I plan on starting that loop where originally indicted. Do you see a downside in doing so?

Thanks again to all that have added input on this topic.

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by shortlong

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher
Now, the blue one ...
This is a bit more complex; but only slightly. Like the red one, most of the blue track is actually not a reversing loop. The only part that needs to be wired as a reversing loop is the section between the turn-out to the orange track and where the blue rejoins the black.

I can certainly see a benefit in changing the green loop start location to where you indicated as it may alleviate problems when backing stock onto the siding.

I presume you're refering to the blue loop.

QUOTE: Following the rule (that I was so appropriately reminded of by MisterBeasley) that a reversing section should be longer than the longest train, I plan on starting that loop where originally indicted. Do you see a downside in doing so?

Since the polarity of a reversing loop is changable, you will probably have to wire the orange track (and the sidings off it) as part of the blue reversing loop.

---

To clarify: In my previous post, I should have said that my suggestions refer to the absolute minimum size of reversing loops that would involve the least complex wiring for your layout plans. Of course, the size of your reversing loops should also take into consideration the length and type of trains you are running. Powered passenger cars, and metal wheels can all affect how long a reversing loop should be. (If you're only going to run rolling stock with plastic wheels, then the reversing sections need only be twice as long as your longest locomitive since only it would have power pick-ups.)

However, to maximize your future options, you should build and wire your layout with the largest reversing loops possible (which is what you have planned).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher
[brI presume you're refering to the blue loop.

No, the red [:I].

---

QUOTE:
Since the polarity of a reversing loop is changable, you will probably have to wire the orange track (and the sidings off it) as part of the blue reversing loop.

hmmm. Wired that section today with the black, but seeing your point. Will consider changing it.