Controlling Turnouts with a PC: The cheapest solution?

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,

I am tempted to use a PC to control the switches on my DCC layout.

Now, an easy way would be to buy a bunch of DS54’s and to go broke over that.
From what I can tell doing some research is, that it’ll cost $10 and up per turnout
To control them with a PC.
Way too costly, since I’m planning on having 32 turnouts on my layout.

Is there a cheaper way to do this? I don’t necessarily need DCC control, since
I’m not planning on using my throttle to control the turnouts.
A cheap PC I/O interface maybe?

I looked into the following stationary decoders:
Digitrax DS54
CML DAC10
CVP AD4H
Team Digital SMD8

Here’s my current setup:
Peco PL10 twin-coil motors
Digitrax Zephir
Loco Buffer II
Spare PC

If any of you know of a solution that would cost less than $10 per turnout,
I’d be very interested.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that with your locobuffer connected to digitrax, you can control your turnouts from the PC. You may need JMRI panelpro, but thats free so no big deal. I think you do have to have stationary decoders for the switch machines though.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JPM335

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember that with your locobuffer connected to digitrax, you can control your turnouts from the PC. You may need JMRI panelpro, but thats free so no big deal. I think you do have to have stationary decoders for the switch machines though.

You're right Joe, with stationary decoders it wouldn't be a problem.
But with 32 turnouts, that'll run me close to $400! [:0]

[Anonymous]

You might look at the CTI system:

http://www.cti-electronics.com/index.htm

Mike Tennent

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironpenguin

You might look at the CTI system:

http://www.cti-electronics.com/index.htm

Mike Tennent

ahh beat me to it !!! CTI isn't cheap either , but i think it beats stationary decoders slightly . you'll probably need the starter set ($99) plus 2 switchmans ($89.95 each) , comes out to about $8.70 per turnout

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ereimer

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironpenguin

You might look at the CTI system:

http://www.cti-electronics.com/index.htm

Mike Tennent

ahh beat me to it !!! CTI isn't cheap either , but i think it beats stationary decoders slightly . you'll probably need the starter set ($99) plus 2 switchmans ($89.95 each) , comes out to about $8.70 per turnout

Thanks, guys.
I had looked into the CTI system, but I'm not sure if the switchman module
would control 16 twin-coil switches or rather just 8, considering that you need
2 outputs per switch to throw them in both directions. If it's just 8, then I'm back
to over $10 per turnout.
Their Dash-8 controls only 8 switches, and the Yardmaster isn't for twin-coil switches.

I'll shoot them an email to find out and let you know.

[Stevert]

Go with stationary decoders and JMRI. Cost-wise it's going to be about the same either way, but since you already have DCC you already have most/all of the needed control wiring in place. Nothing against CTI, but at this point why would you want to wire up another whole control system under the layout?

Also, JMRI is oh so much more than just Panel Pro! You already have the LocoBuffer II and the PC, why not download JMRI and explore some of it's functions? http://jmri.sourceforge.net/index.html

FWIW, I use PanelPro with DS54's and SRC8's to control about 25 Tortoise switch motors on my layout.

HTH,
Steve

P.S. A quick look at the CTI site shows some real propaganda. They say, "One of the big drawbacks of digital command control is that it has no sensing capability. Thus, automated operation simply isn't possible." But that's flat-out false. There are many, many occupancy detectors available for DCC, not to mention feedback systems like Digitrax's Transponding and the others already on the market or in the works...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Stevert

Go with stationary decoders and JMRI. Cost-wise it's going to be about the same either way, but since you already have DCC you already have most/all of the needed control wiring in place. Nothing against CTI, but at this point why would you want to wire up another whole control system under the layout?

Also, JMRI is oh so much more than just Panel Pro! You already have the LocoBuffer II and the PC, why not download JMRI and explore some of it's functions? http://jmri.sourceforge.net/index.html

FWIW, I use PanelPro with DS54's and SRC8's to control about 25 Tortoise switch motors on my layout.

HTH,
Steve

P.S. A quick look at the CTI site shows some real propaganda. They say, "One of the big drawbacks of digital command control is that it has no sensing capability. Thus, automated operation simply isn't possible." But that's flat-out false. There are many, many occupancy detectors available for DCC, not to mention feedback systems like Digitrax's Transponding and the others already on the market or in the works...

You might be right, Steve.
I looked into PC I/O boards and they aren't cheap either.
Much to my surprise, most of the stationary DCC decoders seem to be priced fairly reasonable in comparison.
I expected a much higher "hobby markup".
The SRC8's have a nice price tag, but unfortunatly won't work with my twin-coils.
Too bad..

[Stevert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kyle S.

Much to my surprise, most of the stationary DCC decoders seem to be priced fairly reasonable in comparison.
I expected a much higher "hobby markup".
The SRC8's have a nice price tag, but unfortunatly won't work with my twin-coils.
Too bad..

Yeah, I mentioned what I was using (SRC8's) more as a point of reference than something that would work in your particular case. You might want to look at the SMD8's, though. I don't have an experience with them, but they're advertised as working with twin-coil machines.

And by all means, shop around. Most of the major DCC brands are sold through dealers, and they DO compete on price. That works in your favor when it comes to bottom-line cost.

Steve

[Anonymous]

You can use Digitrax DS64's instead of DS54's and save a bunch of money.

Jim

[Anonymous]

Digitrax DS54's have an msrp of $59.99, and street price is less.

http://www.digitrax.com/prd_statdec_ds64.php

They can control 4 turnouts each. They will probably handle 4 crossovers each as well.

Jim

[bikerraypa]

what about this hickymajig made by Atlas:

http://tinyurl.com/8mfma

does it still require a decoder for each turnout? I'm interested in this myself!!


Ray

[Anonymous]

If you want the best of all worlds CTI is the answer! Its great stuff! I have used it extensively on my DCC layout.

[NZRMac]

Tony's has LS150 decoders cheap, they will run 6 turnouts.

http://www.tonystrains.com/products/lenz_decs.htm

Ken.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Stevert

P.S. A quick look at the CTI site shows some real propaganda. They say, "One of the big drawbacks of digital command control is that it has no sensing capability. Thus, automated operation simply isn't possible." But that's flat-out false. There are many, many occupancy detectors available for DCC, not to mention feedback systems like Digitrax's Transponding and the others already on the market or in the works...

careful inerpretation of that statement shows that it is the truth . there is no sensing capability defined in the NMRA DCC specifications . however lots of manufacturers make products that add sensing to DCC systems so in a real world sense that capability is available , and automated operation is possible if you include non-NMRA DCC devices in your system .

i know it's splitting hairs but i thought i'd point it out

[Anonymous]

if you can read a basic electronic circuit, solder it together and know what "MS-DOS" means, well then, you are in business!!!!

You can have a system which controls 8 seperate channels, and can sense four other for the price of an old PC. The kind you find in bargain basements for a song or less.

the plus side.....

no decoders - beat that!!!
system already there - you have the PC, it IS the system
control 8 separate channels
sense 4 separate channels - has that train been through yet?
minimal additional electronics - read little added expense to the PC aquisition

the minus side

can your read electronic ciruits?
can you assemble first year electronic projects?
control only 8 channels, but hey!!
read only 4 channels - hey again!!
can you understand " IF train1=1 THEN PRINT "4" ELSE GOSUB train1"? that line switches a relay when a train goes by a sensor.

Interested? Make friends with me. That's all I ask. No money, no nothing. Just friendship. On this thread. nuff said!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bikerraypa

what about this hickymajig made by Atlas:

http://tinyurl.com/8mfma

does it still require a decoder for each turnout? I'm interested in this myself!!


Ray

Ray might have struck gold here, guys.
If this Atlas decoder works with common DCC systems, it'll drop the price per
turnout to a little over 5 bucks per TO.
That's almost half of what other stationary decoders are running for!
I'll inquire about it in the Atlas forum and let you know.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Maltese_Mike

if you can read a basic electronic circuit, solder it together and know what "MS-DOS" means, well then, you are in business!!!!...

Hi Mike,
if you can do better then 8 outputs, I'll be your friend. [:)]
What do you got? Let's see it!

[Anonymous]

Kyle,

the system basically uses the PC printer port. This is more properly called a parallel port, and it offers eight separate on/off outputs. All one needs do is to beef up the signal level outputs to drive whatever, and this can be done by connecting a relay to each output. That's all.

More then eight outs.....hmmmm greedy ain't us? : ) but there is a solution of sorts here too. Use the matrix. Not the one with Neo and Morpheus, but a diode matrix. That way you can have eight separate route selections with gazillions of switches each if needs be. If you are happy with this, then you're done and the setup is practically for free - not quite, but hey. If you need more channels, then you have to delve deeper in your pockets and look up some sort of decoding wizardry which would then start pushing the price up which kinda defeats the project's aim.

BTW I overlooked the fact that the PC as it stands offers also 2 analog inputs in addition to the above ins/outs. Use? dunno, turntable indexing? I used these two inputs to read two sets of four inputs each. I have a project under development - currently on hold - which should be able to take control of a loco and route it to one maintenance stand out of three, shuttle it about, and when the time arrives, presents the fully serviced loco at the signal ready for the long haul. All this for a stone age PC, some home brew block occupancy detectors and a relay board.

Another "also" - the computer need not be a PC - any post Big Bang computer with a parallel port and able to run some version of BASIC should do. Dig out those TI99's guys.

Still want to be friends?

[Anonymous]

Hey Mike,
you're a bit of a teaser, aren't you? [:D]
Gee! I wish I'd kept my TI99 to put it in a display case.. I'm getting old..
Anyone ever hear of a Sinclair ZX81 or a C64? Anyone???

Anyways,
I'll have 32 turnouts on my layout with twin-coil motors.
That would require 64 outputs to control them. Greedy? You bet!
If you have a nice, clean solution to do this using the parallel port, I'm all ears.
If it's also cheap - you bet that I'll be your friend! [:)]

[Anonymous]

me? a tease? no really......dude you are thinking of controlling turnouts individually. Try to think of individual routes instead. Here's how..........

For a train to get from point A to point B, it has to pass through say 5 turnouts. These, in order to clear the route A-B would have to be set in a particular fashion. If you think individual turnouts you need 10 outputs for twin coil motors.

But......

If you wire all the turnout coils which are required to be set for route A-B together, then all it takes is a single switch.... CLICK..... the route is set!!! GEDDIT?

In order to prevent interference from one route selection to another, diodes are employed as electrical one way valves.

Google "diode matrix", be patient and eventually you'll see.

Here's an exercise for you......

take your layout and clump your turnouts into routes as described above. eg....

route 1 = turnout 1- stright, turnout 2 - tangent, turnout 3 - tangent.........and so on, and see if you can bring down the route list to 8. If you can, we're in the money.

Fufther teasements.......(MUAHAHAHAHA)

If you can narrow it further to 7 routes, you can even save on buying a Points Capacitor Discharge Unit.

If you use block detection, you could also throw away the computer for a simple activity triggered automatic route selection. If you retain the computer, you'll get a system so sophisticated that it will impress even the highest priced hooker currently residing in Beverly Hills.

Shall I take out the fur lined handcuffs too, now?

BTW, I HAVE a ZX81, but I do not have a printer interface for it, otherwise it will be sufficient for the task in hand.

[GRAMRR]

Hey, this is getting exciting! I have 2 Trash-80 Model-3's, a RS-Color Computer and a Tandy Model 1000 squirreled away and they all work! Oh, the possibilities! [:D][:D][:D][:D]
Good post.
Chuck

[ragarrett01]

To correct everyone on CTI's switchman. It will control 16 twin coil switches, So only
two are needed to control 32 switches. The answer to how that can be is you
will need 64 diodes and 32 capactors. CTI has those also and at very reasonable
price. I only have 12 switches and CTI works great.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ragarrett01

To correct everyone on CTI's switchman. It will control 16 twin coil switches, So only
two are needed to control 32 switches. The answer to how that can be is you
will need 64 diodes and 32 capactors. CTI has those also and at very reasonable
price. I only have 12 switches and CTI works great.

Thanks for clearing this up.
I'd sent CTI an email about this several days ago, but they haven't gotten back to me yet.
This does sound like a reasonably priced solution than. I'll look into it.
Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Kyle, I have been using a product that I first saw at a show in Oct., 2004. It works very well and will accomodate up to 32 turnouts, in increments of eight. It is called EZSwitch by its developer, Clif Rau. You can contact Clif at [e-mail]. He provides a nice package of software and hardware with manual.

The system runs off a PC using the printer port. I am using it on two different layouts using two old laptops, one running W95 the other W98.

The software allows you to create a schematic of your layout showing all track and turnouts (built on the PC like CAD). You can then control the turnouts by clicking the cursor on the appropriate turnout or you can create up to five macros that will switch all turnouts to a configuration that is pre-determined. It works very well on my two layouts and is very reasonably priced. Not only that, but Clif has been a great help in getting started and in helping me when questions arose.

The hardware consists of circuit boards as follows. A base "mother board" with provision for up to four circuit boards that plug into it. Each of the four will control eight turnouts. There are two different types of boards; one for solenoid switch motors and one for slo-mo motors. So you can mix turnout motors if desired by having a board or boards for each type.

Contact Clif by email and he will give you the details. I think you will find this product interesting.

Jody

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the tip, Jody.
I'll shoot Clif an email to find out more.
Sounds interessting!