SILKY SMOOTH TRACK AND SWITCH OPERATION

[Anonymous]

HO 8X 12' L shape layout. about 12 switchs, 2 small yards. I admit I am something of a nut case when it comes to smooth operation. I probably take way too much time with track and switches. Not only do I not have derailments, but go crazy spending the time to smooth out the switches and rail joints. Am I the only one????

Does it hurt anything to FILE the rail joints smooth once they are together? I then further smooth them with a fine black sand paper. I don't want to hear any noise when the train runs over the joints.

Am I too nutso over this or do I have company lol

DON River Rat Junction R&R

[tstage]

Don,

I don't go quite that far. But I do make sure that my track is poker straight, flat at the joints (i.e. no uneveness), and - most importantly - kink-free. It's worth the extra effort for me because the ONLY way I can generate a derailment is if I forget to throw a turnout when my 2-8-2 is on the mainline. I've also hardly cleaned my tracks in the 1-1/2 years that I've had my layout up. (The metal wheels on all my rolling stock is primarily responsible for that.)

I did have a slight discrepancy between my Atlas track and a Walther/Shinohara crossing that I had to file to make it smooth. However, with the quality and consistency of Atlas track these dayis, the joiints between the track sections are 99-44/100s smooth.

Don, keep up the good work [:)]

Tom.

[jecorbett]

If you think about it, the noise of your trains going over the joints is prototypical. Real trains don't run smooth and quiet, why do you want your model to?

[selector]

I did not pay that much attention to my track until it was in place and I was ready to run trains. Then the learning curve started. I did have to do a fair bit of filing to get the points to work well.

Later, I got my first monster steam and found that there were dips and rises that my Hudson had taken in stride all along. The Challenger kept its nose in the air until I agreed to do some tuning.

Next go around, I wll use flex-track to reduce the number of joins, and to provide eased curves. I will also try my hand at making a double slip switch...cuz I gotta. It is one thing I have to do before I cash in. [:P]

-Crandell

[Janafam]

I filed mine to eliminate possible derail, the noise of a metal wheel over a track joint is prototypical.

[Anonymous]

I try to keep my joints as smooth and even as possible. I file off any burs, before I put them together. I also file the points on my newer Atlas turnouts. I've got some older ones, the those points were made with a nice bevel at the ends.

I'm far more anal about deflections, after the track's layed. I'm in N scale, and don't yet have any of the nice reliable Atlas locomotives. My old Spectrum Dash 8 doesn't run too bad, but it's sensitive about odd dips and rises in the rails.

[Anonymous]

I don't mind the clickety-clacks - it is the sound that characterises train travel for me! Being from Australia I used to prefer to take the train from Melbourne to Sydney overnight rather than fly in the morning. Same from Melbourne to Adelaide. AT one stage I used to make the round trip three time every two weeks!

But what I am starting to mind is the problems I have with Atlas turn-outs.

When I started building about 12 months ago I was playing with things like GP-38's and F units. They have enough wheels and enough pickup that they can run through the horrifically long insulated frogs on the Atlas turn-outs. But more and more my daughter and I are playing with much smaller English and European steam loco's. I have a Minitrix AT&SF 0-6-0 slope tender loco which barely negotiates the things. But my 0-4-2T, 0-4-0T and 0-6-0T's dont like the gap at all! Any sort of incline and they lose momentum and get stopped in the gap. So I think it is Peco, Fleischmann or maybe Roco to try next.

Of coursem, the other problem is that these thins are VERY light compared to a GP-38! So unless the track is even and bump free, they will de-rail very esily.

So no, I dont want my track dead smooth anbd flat, but I do spend a lot of time to try and make sure it all works for my locos, even if there are joints that click and clack!

John

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the nice comments. I should have mentioned that I use the Atlas flex track everywhere. I love the stuff. Can get beautiful curves out of it. I also use Atlas Customline Switches, all # 6"s even on a small layout. I like the look of the long curves, although they take up more room than the #4's. and I think they operate better than the 4"s. Theres alot of pro"s and Con's about the Atlas switches but I have always used them and al;ways have had great luck with them. I guess I am just use to them. I do have 2 curved Peco switches on the layout and they work well also. (the long curved ones) I would guess they are # 6's as well, or about the same.

Most of the time the joints go together perfect but every once in a while, not sure why, one section, at the joint will be slightly higher than the other one. Theres are the ones I file down and sand.

DON

[jondrd]

Don,
Crandell's point about the sensitivity of Challenger vis-a-vis the Hudson is what this "run of the mill" modeler exploited to test a given section of trackwork for problems. As I went along I would run my most sensitive loco through before finalizing the track install. Obviously this helps if you have running experience with your locos.
Re Atlas, Peco. In a pefect world everyone would have experience with Shinohara(or equivalent)switches before making a switch buy for their RR. I've got a mix of switch brands and the two Shinohara's I was able to squeeze in are a joy to watch when the tortoise does its thing.
Stay crazy if it keeps 'em on the track. Boosts the operating efficiency of your road!

Jon

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jdtoronto
But what I am starting to mind is the problems I have with Atlas turn-outs.

When I started building about 12 months ago I was playing with things like GP-38's and F units. They have enough wheels and enough pickup that they can run through the horrifically long insulated frogs on the Atlas turn-outs. But more and more my daughter and I are playing with much smaller English and European steam loco's. I have a Minitrix AT&SF 0-6-0 slope tender loco which barely negotiates the things. But my 0-4-2T, 0-4-0T and 0-6-0T's dont like the gap at all! Any sort of incline and they lose momentum and get stopped in the gap. So I think it is Peco, Fleischmann or maybe Roco to try next.

John,

When you're at your LHS, look for Atlas' Custom-Line turnouts. The frogs are metal and can be powered if you want by simply soldering a power-feed wire to them. That should help solve your power problems with those smaller steam locos.

[Anonymous]

Everyone has been talking about just the trackage, but eliminating derailments is a three step process.
1. Track
2. Wheels
3. Couplers

Get yourself an NMRA standards guage for the guage you model in and CHECK EVERYTHING! Just because a manufacturer sells something does not always mean that everything is perfect.

On turnouts check the guage all the way through the turnout in both positions, check the frog flangeways for any foreign substance (like a tiny sliver of plastic) and also depth.

On wheels check EVERY wheelset for proper guage. My Walthers SW-1 had every driver set gauged too wide. Even if you use quality metal wheelsets, check them with the NMRA guage before placing a car in service.

On couplers, if you use horn hooks, invest in a type that does not apply sideways pressure. I prefer Kadees but there are other manufacturers who are making couplers similar. And check the pin clearance above the rails.

If you use this 1-2-3 check system all derailments will dissappear unless you have a mechanical failure (like a part falling off) or if you have serious dips or kinks in your track.

Keep it fun. Derailments are not fun.

Bill

[yarmouthed]

That fine black sandpaper you refer to - is it by chance emery cloth? If so, the residue after use is conductive and its use is discouraged around electrical parts. I picture it getting flung up by loco wheels.

[MisterBeasley]

Don, far from thinking you're a nut case, I admire your determination and patience. Good track is a necessity. Perfect track is a noble ambition. I'd like to think that one day I might be able to make the same claim.

[Anonymous]

I used to buy Atlas track products exclusively. Since my current layout is DCC I have found about 50% of the Atlas turnouts I buy have conductivity problems. The rivets that the point rails pivot on become just loose enough that you have unpowered points. A B-B diesel ends up with one truck on an unpowered frog and one on an unpowered point rail. Peco and Shinohara ALL THE WAY for a reliable layout! Atlas flex track, on the other hand is very easy to work with. Yes, the Micro Engineering stuff looks better but it costs gobs and gobs more money and can be trickier to bend into a smooth curve.

[Johnstone]

I'm with Cinder Valley all the way, but would add extra checks for the wheels. You'll need a sheet of glass, (or any smooth flat surface), and some strips of paper, one per wheel. Place the item of rolling stock on the surface, and then put a strip of paper under each wheel. Then pu***he strip towards the wheel. If it buckles, you're OK, but if it slips freely, that wheel is not level with the others. Also, the axles should be parallel with one another, and at right angles to the centerline of the vehicle.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to add just one more item to "CentralValley's list on preventing derailments. All rolling stock should be weighed and then counterweighted with weights. I use CA to glue pennies together to gain the proper weight. Very light weight cars, especially small ore cars, tend to derail when placed between heavier freight cars. My formula is to place one ounce of weight for every two inches of the length of the car plus one ounce for the car, itself. Therefore, a 4" car should weigh 3 ounces; 2 ouces for the 4" length and 1 ounce added for the car itself. Having rolling stock that's properly weighted avoids unnecessary derailments, also.

Larry Crabb

[Anonymous]

On my 9' X 16' DCC layout, I use 20 Atlas #4 switches with Tortoise Machines and I think I've incurred all the problems associated with these turnouts. I'm veginning my 4th year of operation and, over this length of time, I have discovered that the "Point Rails" tend to become depressed, causing uneveness to the track and interrupting flow of electicity to the Loco pickup wheels. Yes, they actually bend slightly downwards over time and I correct this by using an X-Acto Knife point to bend them upwards and even.

Another problem I've been confronted with is a slow elevation of the frog, whereas Locos begin to "bump" over it, rather than run smoothly. I think this may be the result of the shrinking of the Mod Podge I used to glue them down to the cork roadbed. At present, I'm corrcting this by placing extreme pressure on the frog to press it down, but this is only a temporary solution as opposed to replacing the offending turnouts. Has anyone else had this problem?

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DONNNNN

HO 8X 12' L shape layout. about 12 switchs, 2 small yards. I admit I am something of a nut case when it comes to smooth operation. I probably take way too much time with track and switches. Not only do I not have derailments, but go crazy spending the time to smooth out the switches and rail joints. Am I the only one????

Does it hurt anything to FILE the rail joints smooth once they are together? I then further smooth them with a fine black sand paper. I don't want to hear any noise when the train runs over the joints.

Am I too nutso over this or do I have company lol

DON River Rat Junction R&R

Do you live close to Aiken S.C. ? I can use your frame of mind. 82 turnouts, 600 ft of trrack at 4 levels. The train club is going to help me build this thing. I hope I have one as "nutso" as you are.

[Anonymous]

Don't be concerned about how much time you spend on trackage and checking equipment trucks. Proper operation is very desirable, especially in areas that are hard to reach. Trains which run well keep people interested. A club (five members) I belonged to built a traveling (portable) HO layout. It had four sections to be connected. We spent the necessary time to be sure it operated very smooth. We could set the layout up and get it running, in about thirty minutes. We had very few derailments (stoppage) while operating. This really paid off as we seldom lost our observers due to train stoppage. By the way,all the track was hand laid with wood ties and nickelsilver rails. We used BK turnouts. The critical part is to get the track bed down smooth. We used two layers of Homosote glued and screwed together. Don't let anyone convince you that this won't work. It really does!
My point is, keep up the good work,[:)] it will payoff. Take the razzing good naturedly and know that what you are doing is the correct way to go.

[Anonymous]

Having just had this problem with our club layout, I recommend using a loco which is very touchy as to staying on rails. A good one is an Athearn PA or the new M-1 from BLM. Run the loco over trackage, watch closely where it derails and check for dips ,humps or kinks at that point. Correct problem and try loco again and again to see if corrected. One rail may be lower than the other or both can dip. This usually causes derailments. Check points and frogs on turnouts to see if they are all sharp and in line. If a loco seems to come off not at a joint check the gauge using a NMRA gauge. SPENT ABOUT TWO HOURS ON CLUB TRACKAGE AND NOW ALL WORKS FINE. This will change as seasons change and cause the track and benchwork to move. Temp and moisture change from season to season.
My home layout doesn't have this problem as it is in a more climate controlled situation. Laying it properly the first time saves lots of headaches later.

[Anonymous]

Wouldn't sand rails. The marring of the metal will attract dirt and cause pick up problems. If you use emery paper the debris can be picked up by the engine motors and cause more problems.

[wccobb]

One further problem with wheels and trucks -- if I may be as a "picker of nits". A wheel set may be in gage, but not centered on the axle. This is noticable as the axle end protrudes more at one wheel that at the other. No great problem when the "long ends" are on the same side of the truck. BUT!!! Have them opposite and the truck will go down the track at an angle (crabwise). That's a derailment looking for a place to happen. Quick check is to press the ends of the axles tight in the journals of one side of the truck -- the backs of the wheels must be in line. Simple correction: turn one wheel set around. Best correction: remove both sets and get the axles centered. Yes, that's more easily said than done!!! And yes again -- this problem has been well illustrated in MR, but not recently enough for me to remember when.
Rough rule of thumb for trouble shooting: When many go off at one place, the problems is in the track. If one car (or engine) goes off at many places, it's with the wheels.

[Anonymous]

One of my fondest memories as a child riding the train was , the constant clickity-clack, clickity-clack of the train as it carried you to your destination. If you missed that you missed at least half of the thrill of train travel......