Hand-throwing turnouts

[Anonymous]

After pondering long and hard, I'm planning to use hand-thrown turnouts for most of my visible-near-the-edge switches, reserving motorized control for hidden and hard to reach areas.

Backstory: previously had DCC-controlled stationary decoders for all turnouts, and found it quite dissatisfying. It was kind of cool, especially when coupled with a JMRI setup and running the layout by computer (including remotely from my office!). But in the end of the day, I'm not the run-by-computer type and throwing turnouts from the throttle was more hassle than it was worth.

Having made that decision, what's become clear to me is that I don't really understand the definition of "hand throwing" turnouts. Perhaps what I should really say is that I plan "manual operation" of visible/reachable turnouts and am wondering the best way to achieve this... Specifically:

Would you use some of the elaborate "mechanical thrown" solutions under the table? I've seen various push-pull knobs with linkages, etc. that amount to a "remote" throw, just without electrical power.

How about on-the-surface hand throws. I've seen these ranging from quasi-prototypical (and dang hard to get the fat fingers around) up to things that look darn-near like old Lionel tinplate stuff (including dramatically larger than scale). For this option, any mfr./retailer suggestions would be welcome.

Then again, does anyone just take their finger and shove the points to the right position? That seems unsatisfactory to me, but I wonder if it's done commonly.

In all cases, I wonder about the 'tension' of the points. Unlike, say, a tortoise machine with it's stall-and-keep-tension-on system, what's to keep the points from loosening up and causing derailments?

Any suggestions and comments are most welcome.

[dehusman]

First consideration is, do you want to reach into your scene to throw a switch? If the answer is no, then you need the fascia mounted push rods or linkages.

If you don't mind reaching in, then you can use any number of throws. The ones by Caboose Industries are popular. I used the N scale throws for HO handlaid switches. That might not work for HO commercial switches.

All of the above methods can have tension built into the linkage.

The second major consideration is do I need electrical contacts for power routing (powered frogs or signals)? If yes, then you'll have to use one of the methods above. If no you can use the method below.

The bottom end of the spectrum is the very reliable and ultimately low tech "mark 7" throw. Drill a small diameter hole (1/32" ) in the center of the track about 3/4 inch from the throwbar. Take a piece of piano wire (.020 or .025) and bend a "7" or hook shaped piece, with a short vertical part about 3/16" long, a horizontal part about 7/8" long and a vertical part about 3/4" long. Then put a kink into the hoizontal part so the two vertical parts are just over or just under 3/4" apart. Stick the long vertical into the 1/32 hole and the short vertical into the hole in the throwbar, adjusting the kink as necessary. The wire acts as a spring that holds the points thrown to either side. Quick and simple, but it works and costs literally pennies to make. A tube of 5 36" long pieces of piano wire cost $1.89 at my LHS.

Dave H.

[nbrodar]

I use Caboose Industries sprung ground throws. They work well for me. I haven't used any of the push-pull type linkages, so I can't comment.

Peco turnouts have a built-in spring to hold the points closed, so really you don't need any type of operating device, just pu***hem over and they stay tight.

Nick

[tstage]

kchronister,

I always thought these were kinda cool:

http://www.humpyard.com

I don't know how much work they would be to set up but it's a nifty alternative to the Caboose Industries sprung ground throws.

Tom

[cuyama]

If you still have the stationary decoders, most of them can take an SPST pushbutton as an input. A friend of mine has placed small "membrane" pushbutton switches on the surface of the layout near each turnout and pressing them causes the turnout to cycle to the opposite postion (configured on the stationary decoder).

That way he can still use the handheld when he wants to feel techy and the pushbutton when he wants to feel like a train crew.

Regards,

Byron

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

kchronister,

I always thought these were kinda cool:

http://www.humpyard.com

I don't know how much work they would be to set up but it's a nifty alternative to the Caboose Industries sprung ground throws.

Tom

these are cool ! there was a layout at the train show here in toronto last weekend that used something similar (or perhaps these with some modifications) , it was an O scale layout of an Indian prototype and he had the switch levers mounted right on the layout table in a small building (kind of like the photo of the tower on the hump yard site) with a map of the layout on the wall of the building so you could see which switch each lever actuated .

[cmrproducts]

All of my turnouts are hand throws (Caboose Ind) and 90% are located along the edge of the layout. I use Music Wire to attach the Ground Throw to the turnout. The wire is run through a plastic tube and runs under the tracks to the turnout.

I then just cover the plastic tube with scenery and the wire is not noticeable. I put a line of trees or low shrubs along the edge of the layout between the ground throws and the track to break up the look of the hand throws all being along the edge of the layout.

My layout is an OPs type of layout and if running trains through scenery is more important then this type of system may not be for you. But it eliminates the operators reaching through the scenery and causing problems breaking off the limbs of the trees, etc.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[Pruitt]

I use the tall sprung switchstands from Caboose Industries. They're easy to install and work well, plus they look a little more to scale (to me) than their lever-type throws.

here's a photo of one installed on my layout. I haven't installed the tall stem and the reflectors yet, since the scenery isn't complete.

[Tom Bryant_MR]

Here's another idea for facia mounted throws by Joe Fugate. About half way down the page is a video.

http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=57

I'm thinking about giving these a try.

[ARTHILL]

I installed four of the humpyard units and I think I am going to love them. So far they are the best working that I have and they really look nice on the control panel.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ARTHILL

I installed four of the humpyard units and I think I am going to love them. So far they are the best working that I have and they really look nice on the control panel.

Those do look cool. From the pictures on the web site, it looks as though the only throw the turnout in one direction. It would be really cool if you could throw it both ways witn one of those.

[ARTHILL]

SpaceMouse, I don't completly understand the question. Up with the lever is one way. Down with the lever is the other. There is a small click on the lever that lets you know it is closed or open. There is an adjustment issue, but it is easier than tortise. If up and down with the levers is important, then a bell crank may have to be used trackside if you connect from the "wrong" side. There is an option for indicator lights but I have not used them, "Yet".

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the feedback, folks. I'm really liking the humpyard throws - I was surprised at the price when I went to the site - like 50% the cost of tortoises in quantity (not including the DPDT switches, wiring etc. you'd also need for tortoises...).

[Anonymous]

if you have a sign supply shop nearby , neon glass tie wire is .024 solid copper and a 500' roll
is about 12 dollars. if you only need say 20 or 25 ' ill be glad to pnich some off my roll and send you to try it.

btw that sure a clean panel and cool throws you have there mr.art

best regards all, john

[Anonymous]

I can relate to your wanting to throw some of your switches manually. I controlled the switches that were located closer to the fascia manually by a toggle and wire system that I purchased from Bear Valley Railroad Supply. (They are no longer in business).

The toggle was mounted on the fascia and all I had to do was look down the fascia and I could tell immediately if I the proper switches were thrown. If the toggles were down then I knew they were normal, If up that switch was reversed.

I left HO and went out to the garden about twelve years ago. In the process of breaking down my HO lay out I let my manuel controls get away. When I returned to HO a couple of years ago I found that I couldn't get the Bear Vally switch controls any longer. I did look at the Hump Yard product. I think it is well made and should preform satisfactorily. The reason that I did not buy the product was the handles. I think they are cute but not applicable to fascia mounting.

I am trying to find the Bear Valley toggles at train Swap meets. So far I have purchased four. I Just need fourteen more.

Don't give up on your idea to manually control switches. Its fun to be the engineer and being the brakeman just adds that much to running our trains.

Joe

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ARTHILL

SpaceMouse, I don't completly understand the question. Up with the lever is one way. Down with the lever is the other. There is a small click on the lever that lets you know it is closed or open. There is an adjustment issue, but it is easier than tortise. If up and down with the levers is important, then a bell crank may have to be used trackside if you connect from the "wrong" side. There is an option for indicator lights but I have not used them, "Yet".

Thanks for the clarification.

I based my assumption on the pictures. there were only two wires attached to the switch.

[ARTHILL]

SpaceMouse The pic was misleading. There is one cable per turnout. Itis the clasic piano wire in a plastic casing. The wire goes to the turnout and the lever and the plastic casing is firmly mounted to the panel and the table. The mounting brackets are very good. There are many ways to mount the Humpyards. I chose this way to fit the panel. There are also three variations on facia mount. All look as if they would work.

I should get a commission for the sales pitch, but I like them a lot.

[orsonroy]

No one's mentioned the easy solution: Peco switches.

[tstage]

Art,

Have you ever had any problems with your clothes catching on the levers accidentally? Just curious...

Tom

[ARTHILL]

tstage
Not yet

[Anonymous]

Art,
I know that you have convinced me,
Thanks for sharing,
Bob

[mononguy63]

Call me an unsophisticated cretin, but on my last layout I was just too lazy to install switch machines on all but the most vital turnouts. So I just pushed the points around with my fingers (!) and never had the least problem anywhere. The switch machines I did install were the Atlas undertable models and they worked fine.

[ereimer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ARTHILL

I installed four of the humpyard units and I think I am going to love them. So far they are the best working that I have and they really look nice on the control panel.

NICE !

[Jetrock]

I use Peco switches and a cew Caboose hand throws. I normally carry around a stick to uncouple cars with, it serves double duty as a switch throwing device for switches without ground throws. A few companies make an uncoupling tool that works fine for this, but a wooden barbecue skewer works just as well as a "brakeman's club." I don't let the size of the throws bug me except a couple of places where there isn't room for a throw due to crowded track conditions.

I'm going to have to go undertable at some point, especialy once I start running overhead wire, but the track nearest the edge of the layout (and most of it is there, if I can possibly help it) will be controlled manually. I like being a brakeman!

[Nieuweboer]

I'm still convinced that the proven push/pull rod system with a slide switch directly below the turnout is the best and also cheapest method of manual operation. A slide switch is cheap and has electrical contacts and for rods I use bicycle spokes which are available at any bicycle shop. The only draw back of the push/pull system is that it can not negociate sharp corners; there a bicycle brake cable can be used (Holland is a country of cyclists!).

[cccpro]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts

All of my turnouts are hand throws (Caboose Ind) and 90% are located along the edge of the layout. I use Music Wire to attach the Ground Throw to the turnout. The wire is run through a plastic tube and runs under the tracks to the turnout.

I then just cover the plastic tube with scenery and the wire is not noticeable. I put a line of trees or low shrubs along the edge of the layout between the ground throws and the track to break up the look of the hand throws all being along the edge of the layout.

My layout is an OPs type of layout and if running trains through scenery is more important then this type of system may not be for you. But it eliminates the operators reaching through the scenery and causing problems breaking off the limbs of the trees, etc.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

[cccpro]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts

All of my turnouts are hand throws (Caboose Ind) and 90% are located along the edge of the layout. I use Music Wire to attach the Ground Throw to the turnout. The wire is run through a plastic tube and runs under the tracks to the turnout.

I then just cover the plastic tube with scenery and the wire is not noticeable. I put a line of trees or low shrubs along the edge of the layout between the ground throws and the track to break up the look of the hand throws all being along the edge of the layout.

My layout is an OPs type of layout and if running trains through scenery is more important then this type of system may not be for you. But it eliminates the operators reaching through the scenery and causing problems breaking off the limbs of the trees, etc.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

I have used music wire and metal tubing - not crazy about the metal tubing. What type of plastic tubing? Were do you get it?

[Anonymous]

For a really low-cost but working pushrod system, I used plain steel wire (not sure about the gauge but thicker than music wire) that I ran through a plastic tube made from plastic coffee stirrers (the ones that look like little straws) glued together. Though it doesn't look very professional (which doesn't matter, cause it's hidden), it works well - the friction between the (not perfectly straight) wire and the tube ensures that the points are held firmly in place. Also, it can be bent at reasonably sharp angles so you can reach any part of the layout this way.