Newbie looking for advice on switching

[Anonymous]

I've found a layout that will allow me to run two trains simultaneously and would like to know if it's possible to automate the switching instead of using the remote switches I have today.

I've seen some layouts like the one I intend to build where the switching is automatic (that is, one train in a wait state at a switch until the one on an outer loop passes the switch). I wasn't able to ask how the layout was built since the owner wasn't present.

My apologies if I've been unclear in the explanation - again I'm a newbie and have only 1 very basic layout today.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.[:)]

[nickl02]

If you are just starting out in the hobby, a simpler layout would probally be better. Think about buyingItems that are cost effective, and not expensive so that you will not worry about messing anything up. Atlas makes electronic switch controls. You still have to push a button, but it is much more practical for a beginer.

[SpaceMouse]

Running two trains at once, even on a small 4x8 layout is easy enough even without automation. However, I advise against building a layout out of a book. I would submit that if your goal is to run two trains simultaneously, your goals are limited in scope and you need to explore a bit before you build. After all, the cost of a layout from start to finish is around $50/sq ft, and if you even have 4x8 layout, that is equal to a $1600 expenditure.

It makes sense then to plan your layout well. Recommended reading is John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operations. This will give you a guide to designing a model railroad that will give you maximum enjoyment.

Draw your plans out on a computer program before you build and post them here for people to review. Often the guys will have suggestions to improve on your ideas. Even if you decide to do one out of a book, draw it out on the computer program. Often the book layouts are taken from the magazine and those are drawn to look good in the magazine, and are not to scale.

Many of the layouts in books are out of date in terms of what we now know as modelers. They just plain don't work as well as the ideas we work with today. Also some of the guys that frequent here are guys who you read about in MR. Take advantage and post your layout designs.

Oh yeah, with DCC and a computer, you can do all kinds of fancy automation.

[dgwinup]

dpdaly,

The answer to your question on automating a layout may be more involved than you expect.

For automation purposes, you will need a way to time the various functions so that the operations occur in a specific sequence. It is possible to do this with timers, relays and mechanical linkages. It is more difficult to do this realistically.

A simple scenario: A train enters a station, slowing to a gradual stop. While the train is in the station, another train passes by on the main line. Train 1 leaves the station and enters the main through a turnout. When it clears the turnout, the turnout switches back to the main line. Train 2 enters the station via a turnout that is thrown as the train approaches it and performs the same functions in the station while train 1 passes by on the main. All of this activity must be controlled with timers, variable power supplies, relays to route the power to the correct train and more relays and timers to control the turnouts. Detectors around the layout are also needed to coordinate train movements.

A train pulling into a station does not come to an abrupt halt, it slows down. That requires a gradual reduction in voltage to accomplish. Leaving the station, the train accelerates with a gradual increase in voltage. The steps necessary to accompli***his and the equipment required are detailed and complicated. Each function performed must be identified and the means to control each function must be created.

If you plan to manually control the trains themselves, the process is simplified. Detectors in the tracks sense when a train is approaching and aligns the turnout for the train and starts a timer. The timer allows the train to clear the turnout before restoring the turnout to it's original position. It is still complicated and you will have to have a clear understanding of the operation of the controls to accomplish what you want.

I'm wondering why you would want so much automation on a layout, unless the layout is strictly for display purposes. Part of the fun in model railroading is operating the trains and turnouts while performing railroad operations.

It would be a major job to add this much automation even to a small layout. A computer can also be used, but then you have to deal with writing software, interfacing the controls with the computer and many other tasks in addition to installing the railroad control hardware (relays and such).

Hope this helps.

Darrell, quiet...for now

[BRJN]

If you use power-routing turnouts, you can make a train wait by setting the switch so trains would go down the other track. Electrical power also goes down the other track. This would be easier than the timers &c suggested elsewhere.

I have a switching layout and want all my track powered, so I did not use any power-routing turnouts.

[dgwinup]

BRJN,

Yes, you are correct that the turnouts can be used to route power. But what determines when the turnouts are thrown and in which direction they move? You still need some form of timer and a detection system to initiate a timing sequence.

I got the impression that this was intended to be a totally automated layout. That is going to require a lot of work, whether the timing is done mechanically or with a computer.

If it's not totally automated, you still have the problem of determining WHEN the turnout is thrown. What will determine if a train uses the mainline or siding? Any type of automation that will determine route choice is also going to require a timing function for two different trains. For example, train A is in the siding, train B passes on the main. Train A then leaves the siding. B is in front of A. B then enters the siding, A passes by, B re-enters the main. A is in front of B. How would you determine that you want train A to take the siding every time? It's location relative to the layout changes each time it goes into the siding. Not a simple thing to automate without the use of timers and detection circuits.

In my mind, this would be a great display layout, but it wouldn't be much fun to operate. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Darrell, right or wrong, I'm still quiet...for now