whats a good manfacturer for HO diesel engine

[wickman]

Hi guys
My son wants to purchase his own diesel engine for our layout and I can't really tell him what is good and what is bad can you guys give us some advice. he wants to spend between $20 - $100. canadian Maybe some advice as to different sites ( manufactures that have good quality and good prices . We are DC right now but down the road who knows ... Is it chancy buying something like this off ebay new or used ? .
Lynn[:)]

[Anonymous]

For the money it's hard to beat an Athearn. It's reasonably priced, and will run well. Do NOT buy a Bachman diesel. I once bought three of them (Spectrums no less) and all three were dead within an hour.

There are other manufacturers that make good unis that cost more new. Proto 2000 (Lifelike), Athearn genesis, Kato, and Atlas all make good units. You can occasionally find a good eal on ebay if you want to go that route.

Mark in Utah

[nbrodar]

I've never had any problem with my Spectrum units (steam and diesel). Athearn kits run well and are the most ecomonical, although in my area are becoming increasingly rare. Athearn's RTR stuff approaches the cost of Atlas and Proto 2000.

I like Atlas and Spectrum. Both list for around $100 for none DCC. If you want to see what you're getting the local hobby shop is best (usually the most expensive too). But on-line discounters like www.trainworld.com (my favorite) carry them for $30 or more under list.

Nick

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wickman
My son wants to purchase his own diesel engine for our layout and I can't really tell him what is good and what is bad can you guys give us some advice.

How old is he and is he careful with equipment or not? I asked because things like the Proto 2000 locomotives have lots of detail that is easily broken off. I even break them when I am being careful. For my children I went with the Proto 1000 series because they run just as well but they don't have all the tiny parts to get broken. Another excellent model would be some of older Atlas (in a yellow & blue box) that have "Kato" stamped on the bottom of the trucks. Outstanding drives and not much breakable detail. I can agree with the other posters about the hardyness of normal Athearn blue box and RTR stuff (although personally I am not buying that brand anymore). The Genesis line is pricey unless one really wants that much detail.

QUOTE:
Maybe some advice as to different sites ( manufactures that have good quality and good prices .

Hard to beat TrainWorld in NY. They sell several different manufactures products. I always buy from their "clearance and closeout section".
http://www.trainworld1.com/closeouts_blowouts_clearance/index.html
They are in NY so the employees can seem rude sometimes (especially if you call on the "wrong" phone), but they aren't really.

QUOTE:
Is it chancy buying something like this off ebay new or used ? .

All the normal e-bay risks. It is always buyer beware. I would think the most important thing would be to look for something for sale by a person who sells only trains. These ebay stores that sell just everything often don't have any idea about the "train" they are selling. Some other "train" people are asking outrageous prices, higher than one would pay in a hobby store.

[MisterBeasley]

I'd go to Trainworld or M.B. Klein and look for the "blowout" sales on old P2K engines. (Google for them. I know M.B. Klein is NOT mbklein.com.) These are simply older discontinued models, still brand new in the box. I got a beautiful GP-9 for $40 (American), which would probably be $100 if it were still in production. Most are easy to add a DCC decoder to later on if you want. Your choice of road names will be limited, but there are some beauties out there.

[tstage]

Lynn,

Here's a honey of a deal for you. Go to Trainworld.com and pick up one of their Proto 2000 S1 switchers. List is $110. You can still get one at blowout price for $29.99 or $39.99, depending on the road. Terrific engines, beautifully detailed, and runs as smooth as glass. Here's the direct link:

http://www.trainworld1.com/lifelike/lifelike_proto.htm

Tom
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Update:

As mentioned below, Stewart (Bowser) also makes an excellent product. Here's a link for a web site that sells them heavy discounted.

http://www.empirenorthernmodels.com/Stewart%20Page.htm

Any of the F-series would make a very good choice. I have one of the Stewart Baldwin VO-660 switchers. Runs VERY smoothly. Would be fairly easy to switch over to DCC, if you should decide to go that direction.

[Anonymous]

Athearn for low-cost stuff, Atlas, Genesis and Kato for Higher cost. Proto1000 is also pretty good, but the Proto2000 diesels are aften compromised by poor drives. Intermountain and Stewart are also good, but generally harder to find.

Bachmann Spectrum is good for steam, but the diesels range from decent to very poor.

[Anonymous]

Here's my guide for less expensive diesels. Prices are USD:

Under $50.00

Athearn Blue Box kits -- Best quality for the price. When your son builds a layout for his son in 30 years the Athearn will still be running. Sometimes you can find a Blue Box kit for less than $35 which is a great price. Once I found a GP 9 for $15! My kids use these almost exclusively. Many come with horn hook couplers but you can pick up some kadees, mchenry's or some cheaper imitation at the hobby shop.

Walthers Trainline -- Not bad quality for the price. The units are heavy and not as forgiving as Athearns on bad trackwork but for less than $35 they are pretty good. Reliable runners.

Proto 1000 -- These can be had for less than $50 if you know where to look and are not picky about road names. They are good quality for kids. Not as bullet proof as Athearn Blue Box but what is?

IHC -- I generally stay away from their cheap diesels but I bought a steamer from them as well as a GG1 which are very reliable. The thing with their line is inconsistency as the units are acquired from various companies which went out of business. You have to know the history of the locomotive model you are buying with IHC and cannot go buy their brand name alone.

Avoid -- All Bachmann diesels which are not Spectrum. Spectrum can be iffy as well. Avoid all non-Proto Lifelike and Model Power. Also avoid cheap trainsets by the above companies.

Mid-range -- Generally retail between $60 and $100 though the list price can be higher.

Kato -- I don't own one, but people swear by 'em.

Atlas -- My favorite brand. There are several quality levels. They are quiet runners.

Proto 1000 and Proto 2000 -- I don't like them as much as Atlas but in terms of detail they are excellent.

Athearn RTR and Genesis -- A few steps above the Blue Box in terms of detail. I don't know if they are as bullet proof as the blue box. We'll see in another 20 years.

Stewart -- Kits. They make mostly switchers and second generation Alcos. I like their drive mechanism. They are a little bit touchy around tight curves. You do need to be a pretty accomplished modeler to detail them, as the detail parts are tiny.

[Anonymous]

Would these suggestions work for all scales (like N Scale)?

[Anonymous]

Not sure I can agree with the advice about Bachmann - I have three of their recent standard line GP40s (the type that can be had DCC fitted for a little more) and they're fine runners - there's a big can motor inside, very quiet gearing, and they pull well too. Detailing is a little basic and you do have to be aware that not all the paint schemes are prototypical, but the mechanisms are fine. Best advice I can give is to buy from a reputable dealer as that way you can return it in the event of a problem - my three have been fine but I may have been lucky.

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by thecad

Would these suggestions work for all scales (like N Scale)?

Nope, his is a horse of a different ball of wax. For comments about N, you should start a new thread.

[jacon12]

I have one Kato SD-40-2 that was dc but I converted it to dcc. I paid $90 for it but it could have been bought online for less. The problem with online purchases is you really have to KNOW what you're buying, and you're finding that out here. If you're not going dcc and especially is you're not doing sound, you can find some good engines and reasonable prices. But, put those two in the mix and it seems like prices jump around $130 and more. Assuming it's ready to run.
I have a LL Proto 2000 that is a sweet, finely detailed locomotive, but I don't think I'd recommend them for young hands. The local hobby shop had a dcc equipped engine the other day, I think by Bachmann but that could be wrong, for about $50.
Anyway, these guys have given you some excellent advice, like they always do!
Jarrell

[wickman]

Your so right Jarrell I always get some real good advice here. My son is 13 and he's pretty responsible with his stuff especially rail stuff , he's learned to respect the RR after all he did most of the wiring once I showed him what to do and he's doing most of the rail testing finding the areas that need to be filed and gaps filled in.
Lynn

[tstage]

Lynn,

If your son is 13 and responsible as you claim, then the Proto 2000 locomotives and any of those with a higher amount of detailing should work fine for you. If you have a local hobby shop (LHS) anywhere in the vicinity or proximity of your house, they are worth checking out as well.

There's nothing like being able to hold, touch and/or run a locomotive to see what it is you are buying. I have bought 2 or my 3 locomotives online. I still encourage folks to support their LHS as much as they can. I give the three I frequent about 90% of my business.

Tom

[wickman]

Call me new and learning but is there any difference between one manufacturer of a csx loco to another . I'm learning that atlas makes a csx as does athern. And does only lifelike make proto . Boy there's alot to learn in this hobby I never new there were so many different types of loco's . Now I'm finding out a swtcher as was suggested (good price by the way) is used more in a yrd . We're looking for an engine that is basically for the main lines and dropping off and picking up cars , you know the fun stuff. Is there someplace that gives a tutorial lesson as to what engine is good for this compared to doing that task and so on?
Lynn[:)]

[jkeaton]

Yes, Lynn, there are major differences between different manufacturers of a "CSX" locomotive. I'm assuming since your original question asked about prices in Canadian dollars that you are in Canada (as I am!).

CSX is a major railway in the USA, not a kind of locomotive. Many manufacturers put CSX paint on their model locomotives - from the cheap Model Power diesels in their cheapest trainsets to the excellent Japanese-made Kato locomotives. So, always find out who the manufacturer is, not just the paint job!

Elsewhere on the Model Railroader website (the host of this forum) you'll find an article or two on what kinds of locomotives are used for what kind of jobs. Or browse your local library's catalogue, and borrow a book or two on getting started in model railroading (or maybe a history of a railway - the photos along will give you lots of information). If you're near a local railway museum (there are such in communities from St. John's Newfoundland through Montreal to Edmonton and Victoria), then a trip there would be fun - and you'd find out a lot of information.

Real railways often used different types of locomotive for different functions (yards, local freights, long-distance freights) but not always - and smaller, local railways often use what they have, regardless of its orginal designed function. Switchers are usually used around yards, or for delivering cars locally - but I have also seen a pair of CN switchers out on the mainline working hard to keep a long-distance freight moving at 80 km/h when there was a locomotive shortage. And older mainline locomotives often get "demoted" to switching for their last few years before scrapping.

If you want a good general purpose locomotive at a good price, I'd suggest looking for an Athearn GP-38 for your son. Real railroads used these for everything from yard switching to high-speed intermodal trains, and even on commuter passenger trains. If you have a little more money and want to buy a better quality unit, then Atlas makes a GP40 or an RS3 that would be equally flexible.

Jim in Ottawa

[wickman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jkeaton
[If you want a good general purpose locomotive at a good price, I'd suggest looking for an Athearn GP-38 for your son. Real railroads used these for everything from yard switching to high-speed intermodal trains, and even on commuter passenger trains. If you have a little more money and want to buy a better quality unit, then Atlas makes a GP40 or an RS3 that would be equally flexible.

Jim in Ottawa

ok so I'm learning thanks to the input I've been receiving [bow]
Now is there a large quality difference between athearn and Atlas I will assume they both make the GP40 and RS3?
I will do some searching on this forum to see if I can find the articles your talking about for the dif types of Loco's and there uses.
I'm in Sault Ste. Marie Ont.
Lynn[:)]

[Anonymous]

There are three levels of Athearn locomotives. The least expensive is the Blue Box kit. These sell for anywhere between $30 and $45 dollars U.S., though they can be had for less. They are very reliable, your son will be able to pass one down to his son. (IMO, only Mantua produced a more bullet proof locomotive) However, their drawbacks include the following: They are not as detailed as more expensive models, their paint is flater and duller right out of the box and the applied details are not as realistic. (They look like bent paperclips.) Also, they are louder than more expensive models and, if you wi***o convert them to DCC you need to insulate the shell and install the decoder yourself. Still, I love the Blue Box and without them HO would have never reached the level of popularity it now enjoys.

The next level of Athearn is the RTR or ready to roll. The newer ones are quieter than the blue boxes, have more detail and factory applied parts. These retail for anywhere between $55 and $95 dollars US. The most expensive Athearn is the Genesis line. They retail for around $75 to $125. They are very detailed, very quiet, DCC equipped, and such a nice paint job that modelers are often reluctant to weather them.

Atlas does not have an equivilant to the Blue Box just yet but within the next year their Trainman line (I think) will be their least expensive model. Their "Classic" line is in the same price range and Athearn's RTR. However, I prefer Atlas classics to Athearns RTR. The best Atlas models are their Silver, Gold and Master series. I love these things. They run as smooth as a Swiss watch and have such detail that if you take a magnifying glass you can read the builder's plate -- even on their N Scale locos!

Kato makes some great contemporary diesels as well. They are kits, the paint isn't as bright but many people regard their drive system as the best available.

IMO, if you want to be on the lowest price range you can't go wrong with an Athearn Blue Box. If, however, you want a more expensive locomotive Atlas is the way to go, though there are others who swear by Kato, Athearn Genesis and Proto 2000. If you really want to spend a lot of money and want sound (including all the bells and whistles) Broadway Limited gives you the best bang for the buck in the premium category.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wickman

Your so right Jarrell I always get some real good advice here. My son is 13 and he's pretty responsible with his stuff especially rail stuff , he's learned to respect the RR after all he did most of the wiring once I showed him what to do and he's doing most of the rail testing finding the areas that need to be filed and gaps filled in.
Lynn

13! Oh well, he's almost big enough to drive the real ones!! [:D]
JaRRell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Lynn,

If your son is 13 and responsible as you claim, then the Proto 2000 locomotives and any of those with a higher amount of detailing should work fine for you. If you have a local hobby shop (LHS) anywhere in the vicinity or proximity of your house, they are worth checking out as well.

There's nothing like being able to hold, touch and/or run a locomotive to see what it is you are buying. I have bought 2 or my 3 locomotives online. I still encourage folks to support there LHS as much as they can. I give mine about 90% of my business.

Tom

Can we hear a loud Amen! Tom hits it right on the head,.... pick it up, run it and smell it. I'll tell you another thing about LHS's. Keep your eyes on the higher priced stuff that ISN'T moving for them and after a while ASK what they can sell it for. I picked up a couple of fine things like that for as much as 50% off msrp because the owner wants to get his money out of the units and put it in something that is going to sell and make him a profit. You're more likely to get a deal IF you've been buying track, wheels, couplers and all the other stuff from them
Jarrell

[Medina1128]

I used strictly Athearn blue kits on my past layout. Since I've started building my new one, I bought 3 of Walthers Trainline diesel locomotives, and they run quite nicely. And the cost isn't bad either: < $30.00 They come with directional lighting.
I have a couple of Proto 2000s, as well. They cost more, but, they run great. Try looking for train shows in your area at Model Railroader's web site. I've bought three locomotives on eBay, and one was NIB (new in box) and the others were used. The used ones just needed some cleanup and they were ready to detail and put into service.

[Anonymous]

Here is a brief primer on real life, mainline freight diesel locomotives.

Currently, there are two major manufacturers of diesel electric (they are called diesel electric because they are electric motors powered by a diesel generator) locomotives in North America. They are GE (General Electric) and EMD (originally a division of General Motors.) Most freight locomotives have either four axles (eight wheels) or six axles (twelve wheels). GE locomotives will have a "B" in the model name if they are four axle units and a "C" in the model name if they are six axle units. EMD locomotives will have a GP (stands for General Purpose) if they are four axle units and SD (Special Duty) if they are six axle units. A GP 40 is a four axle locomotive manufactured by EMD. A C30-7 is a six axle locomotive manufactured by General Electric. If you are standing along the railroad tracks when a train comes by and want to know which manufacturer built the locomotive look at the hood. If it comes to a point it is built by EMD. If it is stubby it is a General Electric.

Another real life freight locomotive manufacturer that is popular among modelers were manufactured by Alco (American Locomotive Company). Alco went out of business sometime in the late sixties/early 70's. They built both four and six axle locomotives. RS was Alco's designation for a road switcher in the first generation of diesel electric power. Alcos are the Harley Davidsons of locomotives. They tend to belch a whole lot of black smoke when accelerating.

For HO scale modeling, most four axle locomotives can handle 18 inch minimum radius curves. Six axles usually need a minimum of 22 inches, but some can handle eighteen inch radius curves.

[wickman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RevMattCNJ

Here is a brief primer on real life, mainline freight diesel locomotives.

Currently, there are two major manufacturers of diesel electric (they are called diesel electric because they are electric motors powered by a diesel generator) locomotives in North America. They are GE (General Electric) and EMD (originally a division of General Motors.) Most freight locomotives have either four axles (eight wheels) or six axles (twelve wheels). GE locomotives will have a "B" in the model name if they are four axle units and a "C" in the model name if they are six axle units. EMD locomotives will have a GP (stands for General Purpose) if they are four axle units and SD (Special Duty) if they are six axle units. A GP 40 is a four axle locomotive manufactured by EMD. A C30-7 is a six axle locomotive manufactured by General Electric. If you are standing along the railroad tracks when a train comes by and want to know which manufacturer built the locomotive look at the hood. If it comes to a point it is built by EMD. If it is stubby it is a General Electric.

Another real life freight locomotive manufacturer that is popular among modelers were manufactured by Alco (American Locomotive Company). Alco went out of business sometime in the late sixties/early 70's. They built both four and six axle locomotives. RS was Alco's designation for a road switcher in the first generation of diesel electric power. Alcos are the Harley Davidsons of locomotives. They tend to belch a whole lot of black smoke when accelerating.

For HO scale modeling, most four axle locomotives can handle 18 inch minimum radius curves. Six axles usually need a minimum of 22 inches, but some can handle eighteen inch radius curves.

Thanks that helps a gret deal

[RMax1]

I would recommend Proto 1000's. I have bought several for around $20 US and they work great. Selection of roads my be difficult for some things but they work great and are quiet. If you want something simple and built like a tank then an Athearn Blue Box is usually the answer. Normally not fancy but reliable locos. If you break a shell on an Athearn they are easily replaced where the Proto are not.

RMax1

[dragonsparrowblue77]

Hey all. What's the doggin' on Bachmann.

I'm running (3) of the newer GP-40's with the decoder installed, for less than $50 US each.

They've all been great runners. I've only had them 3 months, but they've run for 4 hours at a time, twice a week, and other than cleaning wheels, and dirty club track, I've had no problems whatsoever. They definetly can pull they're share of a weighted train.

I've been able to program 4-digit address and momentum (this is all I've ventured for now) on our Digi-Trax controlled layout. - Now there's also a question for you - do you want to have, or be able to add DCC to your layout. Plan now for the engines if you're looking that way. Modifications can be a challenge (not impossible).

I agree, that you should check them out before purchasing. Congrats, and Good Luck.


dsb77

[RMax1]

I've got one of the Bachmann GP40's also with decoder. It's been fine and they are inexpensive. I saw them at $24 at a show.

RMax1