Building a layout

[don_csx]

Hi guys and gals. My name is Donald. I have been collection HO trains for 15 years now and have had 4 different layouts. I got married and dismantled my 4 layout 6 years ago. I have completed a 16'x16' building that I will be building my new layout in.

Now for some help. All of my layouts has been plywood on a 1x6 frame. On my new layout I want to have a hidden staging yard, and I'm thinking about a double deck layout for more operation also. So what would be the best kind of bench work for me to build??

For the track work. I have be drawing ideals for my track for the past 6 years and after 15 years and 4 layout I'm still having trouble coming up on a track plan. Over the years I have purchased structure that I want to use on my layout. I have placed them around the room to try to get ideals but nothing I come up with really don't represent the operation I want. I like to have continues main line running and a switching layout, and to be able to take pictures. What would be the best way for my to start my track work. My other layout I just started laying track and they all ended up pretty much the same way. Strait track along the walls with a siding. On this layout I like to have a plan before I start. Any one have any suggestions?? I have looked at just about every track plan book out there but I didn't see anything that interested me. Here is a list of what buildings I have to work with and how I like to have my track.::

Track
Continues Double Track Main
Switch
Yard
Small yard (5 or 6 stub tracks)
Turntable (Walthers (90')
Round House (Walthers)
Coaling station (Walthers 2 track)
Sanding rack (Bachmann Spectrum)
Transfer Table (Walthers)
Car Shop (Walthers)
Locomotive Maintenance building (Bachmann Spectrum)
Coal Prep Plant
Flood loader (Walthers)
Tri-State Power(Walthers (Used for PrepPlant)
Rotory Dump (Walthers)
Steel Mill
Blast Furnace
Electric Furnace
Rolling mill
Coke Oven
Ore Crane
37"x 10" Sinter Plant(Scratched Build)

Is there any suggestion on what I should do first?? I know I'm asking a lot, but I'm stumped. Thanks to any one how offers to help.

Donald

[Anonymous]

Donald: I think it depends a lot on how you're layout is going to be configured. FWIW, here's what I did. Bear in mind I consider most layouts to be dramatically overbuilt: You mention 1x6 lumber... I haven't (and wouldn't) feel the need to use a single scrap of 1x6 lumber in a layout. Unless you're doing something crazy like spanning 20' with no legs, it's overkill (and if you're trying to do that, go get some engineered trusses from the home store, not 1x anything).

Anyway, here's what I do, that might be very applicable for a multi-deck type layout: I have a single-deck layout in a 20x28 space. It is mostly a "bookshelf" style layout around the walls, with several pensinsulas coming out into the room.

I'm using brackets for the 'shelf" (i.e. 2.5 foot width or less) areas.

I cut a triangle roughly 3" more than the width of the shelf out of 1/2" plywood. My room has open studs, so I screw the extra 3" or so directly to the side of the stud - rock solid. I don't glue this in the interest of portability if I'm ever forced to move (and it would be 'forced' - believe me).

Then I Dado a 1/2" wide, 1/4" deep groove in 1x4 dimensionals for the top and cut it the length of the shelf. This grooved 1x4 gets glued to the top edge of the plywood bracket. (I shoot a few brads in with the nail gun to hold it while it dries). The trick here is to mount the bracket to the wall before you put the top on - if you try and assemble them "offline" before mounting, you'll never get the same strength in the glue bond. Mount the bracket, glue liberally, press the top down and nail it to hold: I've tried to disassemble a couple of these when I messed it up and hoped to reuse the material. Let me tell you that you'll pull that wood apart before you break that joint!

If I didn't have exposed studs in my train area, I would do another dadoed 1x4 for the back, attach as noted, then use that as an attachment point to the wall.

So now I have a _very_ stable 1x4 support platform every 16" along the way, more than enough to hold up the layout. I have used both 3/4" plywood and 2" foam to span across these brackets, and prefer the foam.

In areas where scenery will NOT extend below the 'top' level, I cut a 1x2 to length and glue/nail it between the 1x4s. This gives a nice stable 'nailer' to attach any fascia, control panel, etc. I use drape to hide the underside of the layout, it gets stapled to the back of the 1x2s. The 1x2's also avoid any 'left/right' sway in the brackets, though I've never really had that problem anyhow.

For the peninsulas, I use a modified L-girder design. I don't like the nature of L-girder construction resulting in a 8-12" depth of lumber under the table. Instead I'll span the "long" end of a peninsula with an l-girder on each side.

Then I add 1x4 cross-bracing every 16", but not running across the top of the girder. instead, I put it flush with the girder, screwed directly into it, with the top of each end notched out to accomodate the "L". While this sounds suspiciously like traditional open-frame design, using the L-girders this way allows you to span a much longer distance than just a straight 1x4, without sag or added legs. I have peninsulas that run 12' with only two legs at the end supporting them (the 'back" side hooked to the wall).

Now I understand that the point of traditional L-girder construction is to be able to go "outside the box" to not have that hard-defined edge of the traditional open-grid construction... So in my system, If I need to "extend" out beyond the perimeter of the L-girders, I cut a piece of L-girder to the needed length (I've gone at most 12" this way) and simply glue/screw it directly to the outsideof the L-girder. We're not holding up battleships here, gang. A butt-jointed, glued-and-screwed joint will more than suffice. I do get these 'outside the box' supports a bit closer together thiough - 8-12" I'd say.

That's my diatribe on benchwork, hope you find some/all of it useful.

[jwar]

[#welcome] First of all welcome to the forum Donald.

You did not state and I may be wrong, looks to me your considering a around the room layout. You layout sounds very interesting. design the layout yourself, perhaps a nolex or helix to have double the lenght and double the effects for industrys, perhaps a swing up or swing out spanning the door, if around the room is what your intending.

What Im trying to say is that the steel mill will take a lot of lenght, Roundhouses are space eaters,

Here is my two cents, Building a two level layout the Steel Mill could have its own yard, the round house would not have to be on the same level as your backshop, You could have two yards one one each level, as well as small yards for industrys without the train being in two industrys at the same time as it traveles.

If your not into the cad track planning mind set (taking the time to learn it, do it, and get building it can be eons of time) Me I just grab some 1/4 lined paper, a compas and pencil, then layout the max shelf area for your room that you want to use

Then design and layout your steel mill and yard tracks, your yard or yards and all industrys, then cut thes out and move them around the room graph sheet, dont worry about the mains untill you get the essest you want to achieve, then conect the dots of the mains. Try not to have mains less then six inches from the front, just remembered, Look for Joes topic on realistic operation, with that your on the right track.

Enjoy and have a great day...John

[dgwinup]

Let's see if I can describe my idea to you in a clear and understandable way.

You didn't mention if you wanted to limit any grades, so I will assume that you want no more than a 2% grade. You didn't mention where the door into the room is, or if there are any obstructions in the room (other doors, closets, windows, etc.), so I will assume the door is in the middle of the front wall and there are no other obstructions in the room.

The 'hidden' staging will be on the back wall opposite the door in the front wall. This will be your base level at 0" height. The staging yard tracks run parallel to the layout and begin at the front edge of the layout. Behind the staging tracks are the double track mainlines.

Starting from the RIGHT end of the staging yard, the mainlines remain at 0" elevation along the back wall, around to and along the right wall, around to and along the front wall, where the two main lines diverge and form a loop. This entire section, from the staging yards to the loop is level at 0" elevation.

From the left side of the staging yard, the mains begin a gradual ascent following around the room along the left wall and across the front wall to the door. The mains form a loop traveling in a clockwise direction, still rising, until the mains are once again parallel to the wall. The mains continue rising, parallelling the wall, as they return around the room, now traveling from left to right all along the left wall, the rear wall, the right wall and the front wall to the right of the door, all the while still rising. Once again, the mains form a loop, this time counter-clockwise, until the mains are once again parallel to the walls. The mains now travel from right to left, still rising, as they head parallel to the front, right and rear walls, and again around the room to the left wall and around to the front wall. The loop they form to the left of the door now circles counter-clockwise so the mainlines end up at the front edge of the layout. At this point, the mains level out to the elevation of your upper layout.

Let's review. Staging yards at 0" elevation. First loop around to the left brings the mains to the rear of and above the staging yards at an elevation of approximately 7" for a 1% grade, 10" for a 1 1/2% grade and 14" for a 2% grade. The next loop around the right of the room brings the mains to elevations of 14", 20" or 28" (1%, 1 1/2%, 2% grades) to the rear of and above the staging yards. The final loop around the left side of the room brings the elevations to 18", 26" or 36" (1%, 1 1/2%, 2% grades) above the 0" elevation of the staging yards.

Your upper level is now at least 18" above your lower level, maybe as high as 36" using a 2% grade. On this upper level, you will have enough distance from the front edge of the layout to the wall to accommodate sidings and industries all along the mains all around the room. The mains can curve through the scenery as they no longer need to be close to and parallel to the walls. After passing over the middle of the back wall, the mains can separate into single tracks and continue around the room to the right, forming a loop to the right of the door. This loop on the upper level, and the one below it on the lowest level, provide for continuous running. The 1% to 2% grades insures that you will be able to run long trains. If you make the upper level about 30" wide, you will have a layout space of 30" x 16' on the left wall, 30" x 11' on the rear wall and 30" x 16' on the right wall, a total area of over 100 square feet, or the equivalent of 3 1/2 pieces of 4' x 8' plywood. You should have enough room on the upper level on the right side for your steel mill, inside the large loop formed when the mainlines split apart. The engine service facility can be located on the upper level in the middle of the back wall. The coal mine/flood loader can be in the far left corner, along the left wall or in the near left corner. Various other industries can be located along the mainlines. You should have enough room to have small peninsulas jutting out from the layout from either side wall or even from the rear wall. These peninsula areas do not need to be wide; they would be for switching more industries.

I hope I have explained this clearly enough for you to get the idea. You are making a GIANT helix around the entire room (known as a "nolix") to raise the mainlines from the staging yards to the upper level layout. The loops of mainline track that you form on either side of the door are made by keeping the ascending mains to the front of the layout, thus insuring that the mains can continue to climb parallel to the walls. These loops can also be scenicked, but you will not have much height between the levels at these points. The lower loops can be made wider than the ones above it and the tracks at the front of the layout can be incorporated into the scenery. The layout needs to be built with extreme attention paid to tracklaying. You don't want to be digging derailments from underneath these structures.

Now, since I am hopelessly inept at using any of the CAD programs (and I've tried them ALL!), maybe we can convince some generous soul on this forum to knock out a track plan for us and post it for all to see (and for you and I to use for our dream layouts!). This generous soul can e-mail me for details and for clarification of my descriptions.

This sounds very complicated, but it is really just several loops of track built above each other to provide access from the staging yards to the main level of the layout.

Please feel free to ask questions and/or offer comments, suggestions, etc.

Darrell, exhaustedly quiet...for now

[don_csx]

Thanks for everyones help so far. I had a few question asked about what I'm looking for on my layout.

The room:: The door is in the middel of one of the wall it's the only obstruction in the room.

Layout Height::36" to 50"

The track:: I like to keep most track along the wall. With maybe a 5'x8' peninsula on one one of the walls. Have a grade no more them 2.25%. As for the track radius at lest 24 minimum radius for main line, and 18 for the steel mill.

Darrell,
Thank you your ideal. I had to scetched it out, but I may be able to use this.

Donald

[dgwinup]

Donald,

Hope you could make sense out of what I wrote. It is essentially the plan I have had in mind for my new layout (as soon as I get the spare bedroom cleaned out!). I tried to put in as much detail as I could as I mentally worked my way around the layout.

One benefit for me was in putting this in writing. My original thought was to have both mainlines leaving the staging yard and ascending to the upper level from both sides. This would have doubled the amount of trackage climbing around the walls (my plan was single tracked mains). I much prefer the double track mains as it leaves more room going up the wall.

Now if we could just find some kind-hearted soul who will help us out by putting this on a cad drawing.............. (Anyone?)

Darrell, praying for help, and quiet...for now