Digitrax "Steal" gives both htrottles control of the loco

[robengland]

I've just solved a lot of weird problems I've been having with Digitrac DCC.
I had assumed that if I steal a loco address, the first throttle to have that address would lose it. Not so.

Zephyr manual, p 30:
Once a throttle has “stolen” a loco address, both throttles with the address selected will update speed and direction information for the loco address. This can result in strange locomotive behavior especially if one throttle is trying to to stop the loco and the other is trying to speed it up at the same time.
This feature can be useful for training new operators or supervising engineers
who insist on breaking the speed limit. The supervisor can “steal” a locomotive
that is selected on a trainee’s throttle and be able to closely supervise that locomotive’s control, taking over when necessary. The supervisor can gain instant override control without having to physically “grab” the trainee’s throttle.

[rrinker]

Indeed, this is how it works. It's not a problem when both throttles in question are encoder types like the DT400, the loco's speed will be from whichever the last throttle set it at. But when one of the throttles in question is a potentiometer throttle like the Zephyr console or a UT4, it will 'fight' the other throttle. I had to get my father-in-law out of that one the other day, he was trying to runa loco ont he Zephyr console and was having problems, so he tried runnign it from my DT400. But he hadn't cleared it from the Zephyr, even though he had the Zephyr knob at 0. So he would get the train up to speed, and then it would suddenly stop. Then he would throttle up and it would go, only to stop again.
Always release your loco when you are done with it. And always set the speed to 0 before releasing it!

--Randy

[selector]

We've seen very recently that so many people forget that last all-important step...zero the released throttle setting before all else.

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

We've seen very recently that so many people forget that last all-important step...zero the released throttle setting before all else.

That I had no clue of. With the wife and possible step son wanting to run a train that is a great bit of information. They will not have a train to run till late November but this will help with the sign: "RULES OF THE ROAD".
Take Care
George P.

[robengland]

There is SO MUCH that could be done to make Digitrax more user friendly. Why would anyone want to release a loco with speed other than zero? And therefore, would it be so hard to add one more line to the microcode to set speed to zero as part of the release routine?

And this guff about the way steal works being handy for someone coaching a beginner. How often do we want to do that, as compared to how often do we go to select a loco only to find some other throttle has unexpectedly got it. It is real hard to find out who, and the loco is sitting right there in front of us and we just want to force it to our throttle. That's what i thought steal was for and 9 times out of 10 i'm betting that's what people want it for.

Sigh.

[rrinker]

And how would you run more than one train yourself if every time you released it, it stopped? I HOPE none of the other systems do that! I'm sure I'm not the only one who starts up one train and lets it circulate while I dial up a switcher and work the yard or something.

--Randy

[SpaceMouse]

I find myself using the steal quite a bit.

At home and the club both there are a lot of UT-1 throttles. On the UT-1, you aquire or unaquire by pushing a button. This button is in a place where it is easy to hit accidently. If that happens when the train is running you have a runnaway and it cannot be reaquired by the UT-1. You have to steal it. shut it down, then reaquire it with the UT-1.

[Adelie]

You're not alone, Randy. That has been part of my operating plan for a "one man Ops session" all along - start a hotshot or two rolling and then take "active" control of a local and a switcher somewhere and play. The way it currently works, I can do that without needing to have software on the PC to act like an operator. If it zeroed out the speed as soon as I give one up, that or having a second throttle sitting there armed with the addresses of the two hotshots would be the only options.

Working in the System Engineering business, when you try to design something to be idiot proof you generally wind up designing something only idiots can and want to use. Most of my job at work these days is to help sweep up the ashes of a similar attempt on a much larger system.

[rrinker]

The Engineering saying usually goes something like "Make something idiot proof, and the world invents a better idiot"

[robengland]

I see your point Randy.

Chip, the way I thought STEAL works would work fine for the situation you describe.

I still hold my position that model railroads are for fun, and part of the fun is sharing them with kids and non-technical types and even technical types without having to spend an hour teaching them how it all works and cleaning up their firs few messes. Digitrax gear (at least the stuff I have hsed) appeals to technically-oriented people and it takes time to learn how to use. I'm reminded of the old IBM mainframe hardware: bullet-proof but as opaque as heck

[BRVRR]

I use the 'steal' feature/capability quite often. I sometimes have to switch control of a train to or from the Zephyr console and my DT400, particularly when I move to the 'backside' of my layout.
I too had a problem with trains stopping suddenly and having to be restarted. Finally figured out the 'update' feature of the Digitrax system and learned to release the loco or place another on the vacated throttle.
I like the feature and use it often.