Peco switches and foam board top

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know if you can notch out the styrofoam board sub-roadbed to place the peco switch underneath the track? I am trying to decide which switch machines to buy and would like to determine what the best application will be for my layout.

If this is not a good option then I am beginning to think I should take back the styrofoam insulation board and go back to a 3/8"plywood top and utilize tortoise switch machines.

I am leaning toward peco switches and switch machines with my atlas code 80 flex track. I hope it will look ok??

[cacole]

If all of the switches are going to be close enough to the edge that you can reach them to throw by hand, a Peco turnout does not need a motor of any type. A tortoise is going to require a hole under the center of the throwbar for the actuating wire to come up through, and a wood or other solid surface onto which it can be mounted.

[Anonymous]

I prefer electrical operation of the switches, so I do plan on switches wtih switch machines. Peco with either tortoise or peco switch machines ( I may toss the foam and go to a plywood top if need be to provide the strength for under table mounting, although by doing so I will add weight and make portability a bit more challanging.) Or a last resort is to use Atlas remote switch machines surface mounts. I just don't like the way they look and have heard that they don't always operate well with n-scale.

[scubaterry]

If I understand the ? correctly. I have 60 peco T/O's and about 40 now have the peco switch machines installed via DS-54's. The switch machine attaches directly to the peco T/O and yes you would have to have a hole big enough under the switch to accomodate the twin coil machine. It would not have to go all the way thru the foam just deep enough that it would not interfere with the switch operation. You can poke small holes in the foam below the depression so you can route wires down to the underside of the layout. If you are DCC make sure you get the digital twin coil machines (PL-10W) they should have green coil wires vice the analog (or older version) with black wires. I have had no problems with my digitrax DS-54 stationary decoders switching the digital twin coil machines directly. However if the switch is sluggish or will not switch then you may have to adj the spring tension on the Peco T/O. I love the Peco T/O and the twin coil machines. They are easy to install and very low profile.

I hope this helped answer your question, if not ask away someone will know the answer.
Terry

[rrinker]

If I were using Peco switch motors on my foam top, I would just dig a little trough where the motor goes under the turnout and install them that way. Similar to what I did with my Tortoises except with the Peco motors you don't have to go all the way through.

--Randy

[MisterBeasley]

Mine are on WS foam roadbed on top of 2-inch pink insulation foam. I cut all the way through, removed the resulting square block, cut the top off it and re-installed it from below. That way I have access if necessary, but I can't see through from the surface. The track itself is plenty strong enough to bridge the short gap. You might want to put a thin piece of cardboard between the machine and the turnout and paint it to match your ballast, both to hide and to protect the coils.

Remember to solder on your wires first, and test everything before you glue it down.

I was powering my switch machines with the AC from an old Atlas power pack. It worked fine for the Atlas surface-mount snap-switches, but wasn't enough for the Peco's. I went to a capacitive discharge circuit and I was very happy with the performance after that.

[dgwinup]

pastornick,

I hope you don't abandon the 2" foam. Any thickness of plywood is going to make portability difficult. If it's too difficult to move, how many times will you actually move it?

The Peco machines will snap on to the bottom of the turnouts. Cutting all the way through the foam will not affect structural ridgidity unless you have a lot of holes (4 or 5) in a very small area (less than 5" apart). Make the hole bigger than the switch machine. The machines can get hot and melt the foam if they are in a small hole. Use a thin piece of cardboard or styrene under the turnout to cover the most of the hole in the foam.

If you don't need extra electrical contacts on your switch machines, then I recommend the Peco. Easy to install, easy to wire, easy to replace if necessary, works well with Atlas track and will look good when the track is ballasted. Be careful not to ballast around the throwbar, or ballast very lightly to keep the points from binding.

There was an article (I think in MR) about mounting Tortoise machines in foam. A hole is cut through the foam for the Tortoise to sit in. The Tortoise is mounted to a small piece of thin plywood or heavy styrene that is larger than the Tortoise machine and the hole it sits in. A recessed area is carved into the top of the foam around the hole for the plywood/styrene to sit in while the Tortoise hangs down from that. Wiring is done from underneath the layout. Don't solder the turnouts to the other rails so if you have to work on the Tortoise, just slide the rail joiners back and remove the turnout, switch machine and backing plate as a unit.

Remember, though, that the Tortoise machines are taller than the Peco machines and will stick out from underneath the layout. If they are bumped while moving the layout, it could tear up your turnout and track or cause a mis-alignment in the track at the turnout. Peco machines are short enough to be concealed within the 2" foam. Only the wires will stick out.

Hope this helps you. Keep asking your questions. You will get a lot of advice, making your most difficult problem just deciding which suggestion to take! LOL

Darrell, switching quietly...for now

[Anonymous]

Boy, am I glad I found this forum. You guys are great!

I really did not want to loose portability with plywood and wanted to keep the styro top. I am going to use Peco switches and switch machines and follow your instructions.

What do you guys think about keeping the Atlas code 80 that I already have? Will it look ok with the peco switches? And more importantly will it line up good?

[MisterBeasley]

I use code 100 Atlas and Peco, and everything lines up well. Of course, using foam roadbed is probably a help in this, since it's a more "forgiving" base and helps smooth out vertical alignment mismatches.

I'm using the Peco 18/22 radius curved turnouts, by the way, and they work flawlessly. They solved an otherwise impossible geometry problem.

[dgwinup]

Atlas and Peco products mix together just fine, thank you. The slight differences in the rails and the tie spacing is almost unnoticable after ballasting and scenery.

After re-reading through this thread, I had a few thoughts. I am still a mojor proponent of using foam for layout bases. My little N scale layout is entirely foam-based and sits on an old kitchen table. It would not be difficult to make a stand for it using L-girder construction.

Someone mentioned using an interior hollow-core door for your application. That is a good suggestion considering the portability that you need. Hollow-cores are light and very strong. You could even bond a 1" thick piece of blue or pink foam to the top. Almost the best of both worlds. You might have a problem with the Peco switch machines, though. They might extend deeper than 1", so you would have to notch the door to accommodate the machines. I would probably just put a hole all the way through the door. The door is certainly strong enough that the holes won't weaken it.

In either case of using all foam or foam-bonded-to hollow-core, I am concerned about under-layout wiring. Unless you are fanatically neat about your wiring, I am afraid a wire is going to get snagged when you are moving the layout. I don't have a solution for this, but I will think on it. On my home layout, I started with two 2" foam boards laminated together for my base. Then I glued 1" pieces of foam under the base on each short end. The 1" pieces are about 10" wide. Then that assembly was glued to another 2" sub-base the same size as my upper base. That leaves a 1" gap under most of the layout for wiring runs and the wires are totally protected. I did all the wiring before glueing the upper portion to the sub-base to make initial wiring easier. Even making wiring changes later on was no problem becasue there is enough room to snake the wires in the 1" space. When I built this layout, portability was important to me and I conserved on weight whenever possible. While my wiring is well protected with this set-up, I don't think it is practical for your situation as parts of my layout base are 9" thick. That kind of bulk thickness would affect your ease of portability. Although my layout is thick, I think it weighs less than a hollow-core door of the same size.

Sorry to introduce another potential problem area (the wiring). It is important, however, to consider as many options before construction since later changes are usually more difficult to accomplish. Using this forum for your questions will definitely get you lots of opinions and point out areas of concern so you can avoid mistakes. This forum is your most important planning tool because you are drawing on the combined wisdom of hundreds of well-qualified modelers.

Weeding through all the suggestions to find solutions that will work for you is the hard part!

Good luck and keep us posted.

Darrell, thinking it over, but quiet...for now

[MisterBeasley]

I don't think you will have a heating problem with the Peco switch machines. These are momentary-contact relays, and only draw power (and therefore generate heat) when you are actually throwing them. You'd have to cycle them almost constantly to get any kind of significant heat buildup.

Still, I think some airflow around them is good. The foam is supposed to be an insulator, after all, so if you block up the airflow too much any heat that is generated will take a long time to dissipate.

And I've got a suggestion to protect your underboard wiring:

Go down to the appliance store and get one of the big cardboard boxes that a refrigerator comes in. Cut it to the shape of your layout, an whenever you need to move it, just staple the cardboard on the bottom in a few places. The cardboard will protect the wiring in transit, and when you're done, you can leave it on, or remove it to do more work. If it gets trashed, so what, you can always get another refrigerator box.

[rmbarry]

I had used Walthers flextrack and switches mounted on Woodland Scenics foam on my previous layout which worked just great. That was until I decided to use tortise switch machines. I gave up trying to drill a hole through the throwbar and a matching hole from underneath up through the plywood subbase (under the 2" thick foam) to use for the linkage rod to the tortise.

On my new layout, using the lessons leaned from my last last layout, I will be going with homasote subbase as I plan to hand lay my track. Using either homasote or a plywood subbase should pose no issues when it comes to properly mounting a tortise or any other brand of electrical switch motor.

[dgwinup]

Quote: Go down to the appliance store and get one of the big cardboard boxes that a refrigerator comes in. Cut it to the shape of your layout, an whenever you need to move it, just staple the cardboard on the bottom in a few places. The cardboard will protect the wiring in transit, and when you're done, you can leave it on, or remove it to do more work. If it gets trashed, so what, you can always get another refrigerator box. (MisterBeasley)

What a great idea! I need to go pound my head against the wall. Maybe jar some of the marble loose! Cheap, simple solution! Easy to work with! Easy to replace! And LIGHT for portability!

Aren't you glad you visit here?

Darrell, poundingly quiet...for now

[sleeper33]

if your'e on about peco solanoid point motors you can get an extension bar to sit on the original so you can fasten the motor to base board and have a small hole for said pin in the foam

[olequa]

Don't overlook the switch machines available at www.aspenmodels.com especially the AC versions. They are so small that they could easily be mounted in the foam itself. Cheap, too, compared to Tortoise. Built-in SPDT, screw terminals, quiet, etc. etc. Use a Lenz LS150 6 output decoder for DCC/manual switch control.

gh

[dgwinup]

ghofmann,

This link, www.aspenmodels.com , didn't work for me. I googled, but couldn't find a link that worked.

Any one have suggestions?

Darrell, searchingly quiet...for now

[olequa]

It worked for me when I tried it a minute ago.

Or try this http://www.aspenmodel.com/Frame_us.htm

gh

[dgwinup]

That worked! Thanks.

Those switch motors look great! And shipping is reasonable. I may have to try these on the next layout. I bookmarked your link so I could find it again.

Thanks again.

Darrell, thankfully quiet...for now

[ndbprr]

I think I would make the hole in the foam go all the way through the foam. First of all any heat generated which should be minimal will have a natural convection as it rises and is replaced with cool air from below. The real reason I would do that is in the event one fails and needs to be replaced. If you don't have bottom access you are going to have to tear up your track to replace it. To me that is something not to be taken lightly.

[sleeper33]

there is another make of point motor i forgot and that's SEEP it's the same as a peco but has a flat base so you can either stick or pin to most boards it has no clips on it like the peco and has a long bar so can be mounted below the baseboard so no cutting required

[MisterBeasley]

Peco also makes a long-bar motor (I'm installing 4 of them now) but if you're going to use Peco turnouts, then the short ones that mount directly to the bottom of the turnout will be your best bet. They are nice and solid that way, and you don't have to worry about maintaining alignment between the turnout and the motor assembly.

Of course, you can mix and match these things. I have some old Shinohara 3-way turnouts that I'm recycling. For these, I got a package of Peco mounting plates for their switch machines. They let me use the tabs on the switch machines, but have mounting holes for screws, or I can glue them to the foam (which I'll do) or even right to the bottom of the switch.

[oldyardgoat]

Just a thought. My layout (N) is not portable, so I went with plywood. I had three places where I needed to use under-table mounted Atlas machines (controlling Peco curved T/Os). Use the type with the plastic throw bar. It will fit in the Peco throwbar hole. The machines with the metal throwbar are not rigid enough to move the throw bar (yes, I did release the spring), whereas the plastic type, being one piece, is rigid and gets the T/O thrown.
I'm currently dismantling my layout in preparation for moving to another state--a bittersweet undertaking.
Ardenastationmaster.