Layout questions

[trainfreek92]

Hi everyone I am a 13 year old train freek . I live in Leominster Ma . I am going to start my second layout a 4x8 N scale. I have made my track plan and decided to go with Kato unitrack. I would like to have a grade on it about 3 Feet from the end and continue to four feet more then turn and head back down ( i am also going to have a siding right before the downhill grade that also went down a grade). I am using woodland scenics foam risers. i would like to know the best grade to use. thanks please visit my train website www.freewebs.com/trainguy12792 [:D]

[rolleiman]

Generally, 2% is the preferred max grade. That's 2 inches rise per 100 inches run.. Some people go more, some are forced to.. I've never used the Kato unitrak or the woodland scenics risers so I'll have to defer to someone else on those.. Basically though, if your train looks like a rocket ship about to take off, it's too steep. Your goal should be to clear a train underneath the track..

Good luck
Jeff

[:D]

[selector]

Wow! You are hoping for a one-foot rise inside of a 4X8 surface? I don't want to throw cold water on that idea, but you will never get that kind of rise in that space, no matter what scale you are in, and still get anything but a geared locomotive and one or two pieces of rolling stock up it.

As Jeff say, try for at most 3%...no more. Even then, you may need a helper on longer trains.

May I suggest you either modify your track plan, or come up with a new one that is reasonable for what you are going to demand of the locos, and for your satisfaction long-term after you finally commence to run trains. Better to get it right now, whatever that means for you, than to look on it all with dismay on a cold, rainy Saturday afternoon.

That is my studied advice..worth only a few cents...but I will waive my fee for a new fella.[:)]

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainfreek92
I have made my track plan and decided to go with Kato unitrack. I would like to have a grade on it about 3 Feet from the end and continue to four feet more then turn and head back down ( i am also going to have a siding right before the downhill grade that also went down a grade). I am using woodland scenics foam risers. i would like to know the best grade to use.

It would help if we could see the layout. Are you saying that in the 8 foot length of the board you want about three feet of flat track, then beginning a grade for 4 feet so at the other end you have a flat "high" spot.

I would say it depends on what the grade is for. Does it have to go up and over more track? I is it just for scenery? To go up and over another track you need a track clearance of 1 21/32". Add sub structure so probably 2". To get 2" height in 4" is a grade of 4.2%. That is kind of steep.

If the grade is for scenery have you considered lowering the bench work instead of raising the track?

[SpaceMouse]

Look at this 4.5 x 8 track plan. Mine. The outside loop is a 3.1% grade, the inside is 3.7% grade. I'm here to tell you it is too much. Running small steam--I have 15 engines. Only 2 can get 10 cars up the small grade. Only 2 can get 3 cars up the 3.7% grade.

[selector]

Looking back, I seem to have misread your question. Sorry about that. I think I follow you now.

Your idea is sound, but as the others are cautioning, really think this through before committing to any plan. One grade is fine, and so is one oval for running trains around it. But if the day ever comes when you get tired of that, what will you do? Maybe you could build in some industrial tracks and do some switching?

Anyway, sure, do the grade up towards one end, and reaching an apex near the first curve at the end of your 4X8, turning and running along the far end, curving, and then commencing to descend...is that right? If you do it right, you could even have a turnout at the starts and ends of your grades and run another flat track inside the upper one, but on the layout proper. You could build a retaining wall as part of the support for the track on your grade. Just keep that grade low, about 2%.

[dgwinup]

Okay, Crandell, just when I was ready to post a response to your first post, identifying item by item the points on which I disagreed with you and offering a brilliant and insightful response, you go and post your second comment! Erase! Erase! Erase! LOL

However, I might not understand exactly what trainfreek92 is asking. My comment is that 8' is 96" (close to 100"), so a slightly over 2% grade is possible for a 2" rise to clear another track. Of course, to get that 96" starting your grade halfway down the 8' dimension means that you must curve back and continue the rise on the other side of the board. That leaves you 2" above the tabletop, but nowhere to go, unless you spaghetti the tracks back down again in an ever-decreasing radius. So much for MY brilliance! LOL

Trainfreek92, if you do not intend to cross over any other railline, you do not have to have 2" of elevation. Therefore, you can take Texas Zephyr's advice to use the raised track as part of the scenery and lower the benchwork to give the illusion of height and use selector's retaining wall to justify the separation. Combining all these suggestions may just be the answer you were looking for.

If not, Erase! Erase! Erase! LOL

Darrell, disappearing quietly...for now

[selector]

Somebody grab the poor little fella's head...it's spinning!!! [(-D]

I hope we haven't driven him away.

Anyway, we'll keep trying to help,trainfreak. It would really help us if you could post a schematic of your proposed layout. Then, in my reply, I'll actually sound like I might know what I'm talking about! [:D]

[Leon Silverman]

One solution you might try is to make your base elevation about 2" above the train board. Then when you start your grade at about a 2% incline, you lower the track it will be crossing over with a 2% declination. This will result in you achieving an effective elevation change of 4% while your trains never negotiate anything greater than 2%. This is known as lowering the river instead of raising the bridge.

[trainfreek92]

thank you for the help everyone. Selector you said add some industrial tracks right? I forgot to mention that before the grade starts i have a 5 siding freight yard. also you said but a oval below the grade, I already have one just at the other side of the layout also i have a passenger station. Sorry i could not give more information sonner, but i was in school all day. Thanks again [8D][