power supply question

[Anonymous]

I have a 24VDC 3.6A regulated power supply ( Sola model # SLS-24-036 ) that I'd like to use. I model in HO scale and will be running 4 to 6 engines max. with DCC. Can I use this with out much trouble?

thanks
Pat

[steffd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by patmcg

I have a 24VDC 3.6A regulated power supply ( Sola model # SLS-24-036 ) that I'd like to use. I model in HO scale and will be running 4 to 6 engines max. with DCC. Can I use this with out much trouble?

thanks
Pat

Do you intent on using this power supply to Run Trains or to operate your accessories such as turnouts, lights, signals, etc?

DCC systems require "AC" Power from your power supply's Output. In most cases 15 VAC to 24 VAC, 5A to 10A depending on how many trains you plan on running and the size of your layout.

My suggestion is to look at the requirements specified in you DCC manufacturers user Manual and follow their recommendations. Bellow is a link to a supplier of reasonably priced Power supplies Specifically designed for DCC applications and suitable for many of the various Digital system manufacturers.

http://www.dccspecialties.com/products/mf615.htm

Stephan

[selector]

Most HO requirements are met with 16 volts. 24 sounds a bit high. If you could set the output at 16 volts, you could probably use it. For illustration, I have a Digitrax Super Empire Builder with a rating for 5 amps. The power supply, also a Digitrax, has an output of 15 V DC. That is why I feel the 24 volts might be too high.

[steffd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Most HO requirements are met with 16 volts. 24 sounds a bit high. If you could set the output at 16 volts, you could probably use it. For illustration, I have a Digitrax Super Empire Builder with a rating for 5 amps. The power supply, also a Digitrax, has an output of 15 V DC. That is why I feel the 24 volts might be too high.

Crandell,

DCC Systems Require "AC" power Inputs to operate. Pat's transformer is "DC" and is therefore Not suitable. Also, some systems like my "ZIMO" system requires 24VAC, 10A power from my Transformer’s output and has a integrated power monitor and regulator.

Stephan

[Anonymous]

From looking at the manuals it looks like Digitrax units will run with AC or DC input, check the specs to make sure that the supply is sufficient. They point out that most DC power pack outputs only put out enought current for a couple of engines, which isn't going to do the trick. The Easy DCC manual looked like it only wants an AC input. The bottom line is, check the manual for the system you are using.

In this particualr case, if the DCC system was a Super Empire Builder, the voltage would be ok, but the current might not cut it, it would prefer 5 A available. For your use it might be enough. There is a switch to control the max voltage to the rails. But another system might not work with this supply.

[Anonymous]

Just found this on Digitrax site in ref. to the DB150 Command Station/Booster.

Accepts either 50/60Hz AC or DC input from your existing power supply. Minimum input voltage: 12V AC or DC, Maximum input voltage: 22V AC or 28V DC. The power supply you use should be within this range and should be overload protected for a maximum output of 4.5 amps DC.

I guess that answers my question, I can use this as-is for the DB150 Command Station/Booster. I'll do more reserch into other units.

Pat

[Anonymous]

Pat,
You were posting as I was editing. You found the right answer, I think. It depends on the DCC system.

[rrinker]

The voltage is a bit high - you're going to basically get a warm DB150. ANd I'd pretty sure that says a MINIMUM of 4.5 amps, since the DB150 is rated to supply 5 amps out, and you need at LEAST that much in. A lesser power supply Will cause issues with anything current sensative - such as automatic reverse loop controllers, as the input supply will end up tripping before the booster and/or auto-reverse unit.
Save yourself some potential headaches - get a proper DCC power supply, either the PS515, the DCC Specialties MF615, or the best deal, the NCE P515. I can get the NCE one from my LHS for under $30, and it's the exact same thing as the Digitrax one that sells for $40.

--Randy

[cacole]

24VDC is too high for any DCC system, whether it has internal diodes or not, and will quickly burn up some of the components due to the amount of excess voltage that must be dissipated as heat.

The internal diodes on systems that are made to operate on AC are there only to rectify the AC into DC current. The DCC system itself requires DC power of usually no more than 19 Volts in order to have an output of 14 effective Volts square-wave DCC command signal on the rails, when measured with an AC meter.

[steffd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

24VDC is too high for any DCC system, whether it has internal diodes or not, and will quickly burn up some of the components due to the amount of excess voltage that must be dissipated as heat.

The internal diodes on systems that are made to operate on AC are there only to rectify the AC into DC current. The DCC system itself requires DC power of usually no more than 19 Volts in order to have an output of 14 effective Volts square-wave DCC command signal on the rails, when measured with an AC meter.

ZIMO specifically recommends a 24 VAC, 10A Power Supply but it incorporates a very sophisticated power monitor and regulator that automatically self adjusts according to the power consumption requirements. http://w3.zimo.at/web2003/index2E.htm

Stephan

[Adelie]

Pat, DC is indeed fine for Digitrax systems, but 24 volts is on the high side and will, as Randy pointed out, cause your DB150 to generate more heat than you want. The amperage is too low, again as Randy pointed out, to work well and reliably allow the DB150 to protect itself in the event of a short.

I'm using the MF615 Randy talked about and it works well. If Randy vouches for the NCE power supply, that is a good enough recommendation for me.

Randy: The site does state a overload protection on the power supply for a maximum of 4.5 amps DC. Puzzling, when you consider the output of the DB150 and that the "Y" cables on the Digitrax 2012 are protected to 5 amps. The 2012's HO output is 18 volts DC, by the way.

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by steffd

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

Most HO requirements are met with 16 volts. 24 sounds a bit high. If you could set the output at 16 volts, you could probably use it. For illustration, I have a Digitrax Super Empire Builder with a rating for 5 amps. The power supply, also a Digitrax, has an output of 15 V DC. That is why I feel the 24 volts might be too high.

Crandell,

DCC Systems Require "AC" power Inputs to operate. Pat's transformer is "DC" and is therefore Not suitable. Also, some systems like my "ZIMO" system requires 24VAC, 10A power from my Transformer’s output and has a integrated power monitor and regulator.

Stephan

Oops! I misread the info on my power supply under the table. It says, pretty clearly, that it is an output of 15 V AC. Thanks for spotting that.

So, about this AC/DC conundrum...can DCC systems accept either in input, or just some of them?

[Adelie]

Apparently just some of them, Crandell. This same question came up on another thread about a power supply. Digitrax can use AC or DC inputs. I'm not sure about the others. Somebody said on the other thread that their Lenz uses an AC input.

[rrinker]

Most DCC systems can take either AC or DC on the input. The input supply only serves to drive the circuitry - unlike previous command control systems that superimposed control signals on an existing steady voltage. The DCC signal is completely generated by the command station and booster.
Less AC voltage is generally needed because of the rectification factor - rectified sine wave AC is square root of 2 times the AC voltage - about 1.414 x the AC volts of the transformer. Whereas DCC boosters than can take either inpute generally have a bridge rectifier which will DROP 1.2 volts from a DC input. Strange but true, feed AC in, and you get MORE than you think, feed DC in and you get LESS than you think. That's why a 15VAC supply can produce a track voltage up to 20 volts for large scale, but a DC supply needs to put out about 18 volts to get 15 volts at the track.

As for Zimo, this is wonderful - more circuitry that really isn't needed if you use the proper power supply. And all it does is make more heat if the power supply is at the high end - sure my trains never get too much voltage, but I fail to see the point, other than increasing the costs. Overengineered, it seems. [:D]

--Randy

[selector]

Thanks, Gents.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by patmcg

I have a 24VDC 3.6A regulated power supply ( Sola model # SLS-24-036 ) that I'd like to use. I model in HO scale and will be running 4 to 6 engines max. with DCC. Can I use this with out much trouble?

thanks
Pat

You can, but I'd suggest running it through a voltage regulator to get it down to a respectable voltage. There's enough current, but the volage is too high. You'd need to build the regulator from scratch to get it to work like you need. Simple enough task, especially if you can hang it off the bottom of the layout where nobody can see it.

Mark in Utah

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all your input... looks like I'll put this back on the shelf!

Pat