A few first-layout questions

[Anonymous]

Here's a few things that I began to think about when building my new N scale layout:

1. When laying flextrack, is it necessary that it be soldered?

2. Also when laying flextrack, is it necessary that the ends be sanded? I have already soldered a few joints without sanding them first---is this a problem? If sanding is necessary, what grit of sandpaper should I use?

3. Does soaking ballast really work? Why won't the water dillude the glue, rendering it useless? What's the concept behind it, anyway?

4. What is the best track cleaning device (based on quality and affordability)?

5. How often should I oil my locomotives? What exactly should I be oiling? Will Rail-Zip work for that?

Thanks!

[randyaj]

1. I would solder the flex track on the curves to prevent kinking.(solder the joints before bending the end of the flex into the curve). Otherwise leave the straight sections unsoldered with a slight(.020) gap for expansion.
2. Sanding or filing is a good idea to make sure that you have a clean joint to bond well.
3. Generally you will want to lay the ballast, then apply glue dilluted with water. Some other methods are out there but this is the one that I find works best.
4. The answer to this one is a many as people on this forum! I use a Bright Boy, a small pad similar to a hard eraser for rough clean up and a cleaning car for general maintence, neither is too expensive.
5. Once a year is plenty, your local hobby shop will have a lubricant for you, just make sure you purchase one that is plastic safe.
Good luck
Randy Johnson

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Postdog2
1. When laying flextrack, is it necessary that it be soldered?

I only solder if it is on a continous curve, and then I solder first and bend later. Some people solder everthing. The heavier the rail being used is, the more it wants to go straight and the more important it is. Its been about a year since I have worked with N-scale but I don't remember it having near the "want to go straight" problems that code 100 HO scale track has. You could always ask the track. Bend it where you want it and see if it wants to jink or kink. The biggest way to avoid kinks is to offset the rail joints by a couple inches.

QUOTE: 2. Also when laying flextrack, is it necessary that the ends be sanded? I have already soldered a few joints without sanding them first---is this a problem? If sanding is necessary, what grit of sandpaper should I use?

That's one I've never heard of. I file the ends if the cutting left a rough edge. But with the new rail nippers from companies, like Xuron, they cut so clean I haven't even had to file in recent years.

QUOTE: 4. What is the best track cleaning device (based on quality and affordability)?

If you figure can that one out.... There have been entire threads on this topic in the general discussion form. You will find people who love all methods all over the spectrum from grinding (bright boys), to polishing and from oiling to cleaning using chemicals from acetone to goo gone. In the last 30 years I have tried everything except the electro-static charging unit. But so far I have always gone back to a simple cotton or linen rag and alcohol. I'm going to try the polishing again with a different compound later this year.....

QUOTE: 5. How often should I oil my locomotives? What exactly should I be oiling? Will Rail-Zip work for that?

Depends on the locomotive, how much it is run. Basically follow the manufactures instructions, over oiling will attract dirt and dust.

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Postdog2

3. Does soaking ballast really work? Why won't the water dillude the glue, rendering it useless? What's the concept behind it, anyway?

The traditional bonded ballast method has three steps:

1. The ballast is spread on the track.
2. The ballast is wetted with a spray of water mixed with a drop of liquid dish detergent.
3. Diluted white glue (50% glue, 50% water) or matte medium is applied to the wet ballast with an eye-dropper.

The ballast is wetted to keep it from balling up when the glue is applied. The detergent breaks the surface tension of the water, causing it to flow more easily. On my first attempt at ballasting track, I skipped step 2, and the results were horrible; I scurried back to the magazine I was working from, and discovered my mistake. Everything went better after that. And applying diluted glue with an eye-dropper is not as tedious as it sounds.

IMHO, for most purposes, white glue is too thick straight out of the bottle, so cutting it with water is always called for. The 50-50 dilution flows very well, and dries to a hard, tight bond. When I finally went to salvage the track from that original project, it took three days of soaking before the ballast came off the track.

I understand there is an alternate ballasting method that involves mixing the ballast with a powdered glue. The ballast-glue mixture is spread on the track, and then wetted, activating the glue, which bonds as it dries. I am told this method is useful in the smaller scales for bonding very fine ballasts. I've never tried this, so I can't say how well it works.

[Medina1128]

Instead of using an eye-dropper, I use an old French's mustard bottle. The diluted glue flows from the end, speeding the process immensely. I use the medicine dropper to apply ballast glue in and around turnouts, for better control. Nothing messes up a tracklaying/ballasting session like getting glue all over a turnout's moving parts. If you do, I found the quickest way to fix it is to suck up the ballast and glue with a shop vac, then flood it with water using my spray bottle. Then let the area dry before re-ballasting the turnout. Nothing learned without mistakes... oops...

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies to my questions. Now, here's some more! [:(!]

6. Can the water/glue mixture be sprayed on? What is your opinion of Scenic Cement (by Woodland Scenics) for applying ballast and landscape material?

7. When laying flex-track, what to you use to make the cut off ties smaller so that they'll fit under the connectors?

8. On one flex track connection, I (using a Xuron tool) mistakenly cut the track at an angle, such that the top of the rails still meets as normal, but it slants back under that. Since I soldered the section, would it still work?

9. Is there a book I can buy to learn how to weather locomotives/cars/buildings?

[Medina1128]

Ok, let's tackle them in order.

6. Yes, the glue/water mixture can be sprayed, but since it tends to go all over the place, I only use this method for scenery, not ballasting.

7. I use a dremel with a stone in it. I can notch a half dozen ties quickly. Make sure you cut off the molded spikes, too. This will make it easier to slip under the rail once your track is in place.

8. As long as the tops of the rails meet, there should be no problem. Or if the rail touches the adjacent track at both ends, file it square and slide it so that there is a slight gap between the ends. This allows for expansion.

9. There are several. Check at http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/400-12247
This is a link to a book from Kalmbach Publishing (the great people that bring us Model Railroader).

[Anonymous]

One issue with the Woodland Scenics Cement is that it is not water soluble after it dries. Using Elmer's white glue allows wetting it later and prying off the track for re-use. It may be messy but you cannot salvage the track if you use the cement.

[Anonymous]

New question that just came up:

10. Where can I buy a good, low-cost airbrush?

[cheese3]

10...I found a double action airbrush made by testors at wal-mart. It was like $40 and came with paints but you have to buy propellent or a compressor. If you want to spend a little more like $50 I found a single action testors with compressor. And they had a $15 single action that again you need propellent or a compressor.

[Anonymous]

11. Where can I find a good file for removing solder from flex-track (due to an accident that I just made)?

[Adelie]

Of all places, I saw a set of small hobbyist files at Home Depot recently. MicroMark will have them, as well as ehobbytools and the local hobby shop.

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Postdog2

6. Can the water/glue mixture be sprayed on? What is your opinion of Scenic Cement (by Woodland Scenics) for applying ballast and landscape material?

I am very reluctant to be spraying glue. First, droplets are easier to control, and clean up after, than a mist of diluted glue. Second, one would have to devote effort to cleaning the spray mechanism after use. ( And the inexpensive spray bottles typically used do not lend themselve to disassembly for cleaning.) When water dries, it pretty much goes away. When glue dries, it leaves an adhesive residue that will bind the sprayer's mechanism.

I've never used Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement, so I can't say anything.

I have heard that Woodland Scenics ballast is made from crushed and dyed nutshells, and as a result, the ballast behaves differently than pulverized stone ballast. Again, I haven't worked with this myself, but a fellow at my LHS complained that ballast didn't fall to the proper shape the way pulverized stone would, and that the crushed nutshell tended to blow away.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Postdog2
7. When laying flex-track, what to you use to make the cut off ties smaller so that they'll fit under the connectors?

Just a normal Xacto knife, or an Xacto chisle blade. Trim the "spikes" off first and let the rail float. then put the ties onto the roadbed or something hard so you can put cutting pressure on it. Slide the knife under the rail and trim. Don't try to cut the full depth in one cut. Use many shallow scraping cuts.
OR depending on the composition of the plastic of the ties you can us the soldering iron and melt the rail joiner down into the ties. That is really a tricky method and takes a bit of practice without totally distorting the tie, but when done right there is still some horizontal stablity provided by the tie.

QUOTE: 8. On one flex track connection, I (using a Xuron tool) mistakenly cut the track at an angle, such that the top of the rails still meets as normal, but it slants back under that. Since I soldered the section, would it still work?

Don't know why not, sounds like it should be fine.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AltonFan
I have heard that Woodland Scenics ballast is made from crushed and dyed nutshells, and as a result, the ballast behaves differently than pulverized stone ballast. Again, I haven't worked with this myself, but a fellow at my LHS complained that ballast didn't fall to the proper shape the way pulverized stone would, and that the crushed nutshell tended to blow away.

Well, I think the LHS person is full of nuts . Just due to simple physics, the size of the particles is going to keep scale ballast from falling the same as real ballast would. The same reason one cannot make a "scale" hump yard. I watched a re-ballasting project the other day and the "lay" of prototypical ballast has nothing to do with how it gets dumped out of the hoppers. I think one will just have to develop different techniques of laying their ballast of choice. Buy the way - they make the ballast out of nuts because it is cheaper, lighter, and most importantly they don't have any worries of it being magnetic or electrically conductive.

And all scenery stuff blows away, even rock ballast, that is why it gets glued down.

[cheese3]

11...you can re-heat it and wipe it off with a rag. Thats what I do . you have to work fast though.

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

Well, I think the LHS person is full of nuts[:)]. Just due to simple physics, the size of the particles is going to keep scale ballast from falling the same as real ballast would. The same reason one cannot make a "scale" hump yard. I watched a re-ballasting project the other day and the "lay" of prototypical ballast has nothing to do with how it gets dumped out of the hoppers. I think one will just have to develop different techniques of laying their ballast of choice. Buy the way - they make the ballast out of nuts because it is cheaper, lighter, and most importantly they don't have any worries of it being magnetic or electrically conductive.

And all scenery stuff blows away, even rock ballast, that is why it gets glued down.

I never used Woodland Scenics ballast, so I am not in really in a position to comment. I will say the the gentleman in question was an old-timer, and had used both, and his comments were based on his direct observation. (And keep in mind, I am remembering an eavesdropped conversation that probably took place at least ten years ago.)

Back before Woodland Scenics came along, there was John's Laboratory. (Yes, that was the name of the company.) And they produced a line of crushed stone ballasts that was widely available until the 1980s. And John's Ballast was advertised as non-magnetic, and AFAIK, no one ever complained about it being magnetic.

Basically, a pile of ballast was spooned between the rails. A brush was used to sweep the ballast down the track, and as the ballast was swept, the excess would roll down the sides of the cork roadbed, resulting in a nicely-shaped roadbed. IIRC, this is where the old-timer found the nutshell ballast wanting.

While I am sure the crushed stone ballast would have created an interesting dust storm if scattered in front of a fan, when handled in the typical manner, the stone stayed put during spreading, wetting, and gluing. Again, if my memory serves, the problem was that the Woodland Scenics product's light weight made working with it using traditional methods difficult.

Now is it Zepher or Zephyr?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

QUOTE: Originally posted by AltonFan
I have heard that Woodland Scenics ballast is made from crushed and dyed nutshells, and as a result, the ballast behaves differently than pulverized stone ballast. Again, I haven't worked with this myself, but a fellow at my LHS complained that ballast didn't fall to the proper shape the way pulverized stone would, and that the crushed nutshell tended to blow away.

Well, I think the LHS person is full of nuts[:)]. Just due to simple physics, the size of the particles is going to keep scale ballast from falling the same as real ballast would. The same reason one cannot make a "scale" hump yard. I watched a re-ballasting project the other day and the "lay" of prototypical ballast has nothing to do with how it gets dumped out of the hoppers. I think one will just have to develop different techniques of laying their ballast of choice. Buy the way - they make the ballast out of nuts because it is cheaper, lighter, and most importantly they don't have any worries of it being magnetic or electrically conductive.

And all scenery stuff blows away, even rock ballast, that is why it gets glued down.

Okay, I might get laughed at for this, but it sounds like you mean (by the term "prototypical") that ballast comes in scales, which would be news to me. I thought ballast was ballast, no matter what scale you were in. Was I right? Am I misinterpreting this?

[AltonFan]

The the old John's Ballast line had ballast marketed toward each scale. Arizona Rock & Mineral and Highball Industries also sell ballast by scale. Woodland Scenics grades its ballast as coarse, medium, and fine. It was not unusual for HO scalers to use N scale ballast.

If memory serves me, prototype railroad ballast consists of 2"-3" stones. In N scale, that's 0.0125"-0.01875". In HO, that's 0.023"-0.034", and in O, 0.0421"-0.0625". Therefore, ballast crushed for O scale will appear to be almost 7" stones in N scale. Conversely, the finer grades could represent pebbles in the larger scales.

So for N or Z scale, you probably want to use the finest ballast available. For HO and larger, you have more latitude to select a ballast that accurately represents the grade of aggregate the prototype used.

I hope this answers your question.

Incidentally, coal is crushed to specific grades, depending on its use. Large chunks of coal used in an industrial process would not be suitable for use by a residential customer with a coal stove. Coal that would need to be shoveled by a fireman would have to be of a different consistency than coal that will be handled by machines.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Postdog2


7. When laying flex-track, what to you use to make the cut off ties smaller so that they'll fit under the connectors?

I've also heard that you can file the ties down so that they're smaller--will this work and look okay (in N scale)?

If not, I have a new idea:

1. Slip ties to be cut under a straight piece of track.
2. Cut out part of tie inside rails and cut off sides.
3. Remove the sections of tie that were under the connector and replace the center section and end sections of the tie onto the rail.

Will that work & look alright?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Postdog2


7. When laying flex-track, what to you use to make the cut off ties smaller so that they'll fit under the connectors?

I've also heard that you can file the ties down so that they're smaller--will this work and look okay (in N scale)?

If not, I have a new idea:

1. Slip ties to be cut under a straight piece of track.
2. Cut out part of tie inside rails and cut off sides.
3. Remove the sections of tie that were under the connector and replace the center section and end sections of the tie onto the rail.

Will that work & look alright?

[MisterBeasley]

A note on cleanup:

After you spray on the wet-water mixture, you will have soapy water on your rails. I immediately take off as much as I can from the rails using Q-tips, being careful not to disturb the ballast. This is also a good time to make sure you've got no ballast anywhere near your switch points, or between the rails and the guardrails. Keep some toothpicks handy to dislodge any ballast that's in the wrong place. Once the glue has dried (I like to give it 2 days, sometimes even 3 if it's humid) then go over the track again, first with a small knife or screwdriver to remove ballast on top of the ties or too close to turnouts, then with a vacuum cleaner to get up the loose stuff, then the Q-tip again, and finally with a BrightBoy. If you make the mistake of running trains over the track before a thorough cleanup, your next step will be a wheel cleaning!