hey everyone, i need some advice please!!!!!!!

[geepers]

hello everyone, i need your thoughts and advice on something. i have the benchwork for my layout done,( at least i thought i did...). my layout consists of the following dimensions..... 16' length x 11' width around the walls of my room. it is basically a big square. my bench top is 34" plwood that is 2' wide all around except in the corners which measures a bit larger to compensate for nice large radius curves. my layout is 48" from the floor to the top of the benchwork. now im thinking of adding a second layer underneath so i can run longer trains and have some sort of a yard too. my dilema is would a 22" helix benefit me given the dimensions of my layout and the heigth of the top level? i had considered removeing my duck under in front of the entrance door to my room, and just haveing basically a point to point with a 22" helix at each end provideing a way to the lower level. what would you guys and gals reccomend or suggest? i dont want to go any further on my layout until this problem is resolved, so you comments are really welcome and appreciated. thanks everyone! [^]
steve

[claycts]

IMHO. 1st What scale? "N" you are fine "HO" and you are REAL TIGHT on the helix. There was a post on a "NO-LIX" using the room as the rise from level to level. You would need a BPE "BASE POINT ELEVATION" that is where the two levels are ONE HEIGHT then 180 deg away would be the full split of height. This I THINK will give you what you want. The other people will probably have some input also. Pick the best that you like and go with it.

[dehusman]

Chances are you didn't design the benchwork to accomodate the lower level. That means there will be all sorts of legs, braces and wires in the way. You will need at least 12-14 inches between levels. If the top level is 48" that makes the bottom level at 34-36 in high. Is that too low? At that level the regualr room lighting will not reach into the lower deck so you will need some sort of lighting under the top level so you can see the trains on the lower level.

Normally if you want multiple levels you need to take that into consideration when you start construction.

If you are serious about 2 levels I would suggest starting from scratch, design a layout planned for multiple levels and then build that.

Dave H.

[pcarrell]

Sounds to me like you are in for some major redesign work if you want to make this happen. Both claycts & dehusman bring up good points.

First thing that would need to be taken into concideration for the helix is the scale as mentioned. The nolix idea may be a better solution for you. I've seen two types of "nolix" out there, and while they do the same thing in the end, they do it in different ways.

The euopean idea of a nolix is something akin to a mouse running in and out of a mountain of swiss cheese. You model a mountain and have your tracks wind in and around through the mountain until you gain (or lose) the height you want. It has the advantage of very little hidden track but the disadvantage is that the curves are pretty tight if you want to do this without taking up too much real estate. Carefully sceniced, they don't look to bad (ie, not very toy like).

The idea of a nolix on our side of the pond may work better in your situation as I am assuming that tight curves are not your thing (based on your comment about "nice large radius curves". This idea is sort of like building your your whole layout on a slant (not that you can't, and you should, have sections that are level). In general your mainline slowly climbs its way from a base level up your walls to your summit. Think of it as standing on the inside of a giant slinky that goes around the walls of your room.

I ended up with a helix, mostly because I can only use three walls so a nolix would have been more difficult (although I could have used turnbacks on the ends which would create a walkin design). The big drawback here is that there is a lot of hidden, and somewhat difficult to reach trackage in that helix (another problem that is inherant with a helix).

As far as deck hight, I found a comfortable semi-low chair and set my bottom benchwork hieght off of that. Then I stood up and set my top benchwork at mid chest hieght. That gave me about 18 inches between the two. I will need a step ladder to reach some areas toward the back of the upper deck when I'm doing the scenery, but that won't be a big deal.

In short, a helix may work for you, but the bottom deck will be kind of low. Not so much a problem if you have the semi-low comfortable chair mentioned earier. At this point though, you aren't to far along to do a little redesign work and just tilt everything a little. You should be able to reuse everything and I think you will be happier with the end product.

Now lets see what everyone else has to say and maybe someone will suggest something that can only come from the mind of a diabolical genius!

I love this forum!

[SpaceMouse]

You can make the grade if you modify the helix into a oval helix design. It has the disadvantage that each turn will be abrupt, but you can make it work for your space.

[jkeaton]

Depending on how tall you and your operators are, and the height of the wall in your room, perhaps you should consider putting the second level above your existing level - 60 to 62" is not an unreasonable benchwork height if you are six feet tall - the trains will be just below eye-level (which can be quite thriling and realistic).

Jim

[Anonymous]

Have you considered going down the middle of the room with a peninsula of approximately 12' X 3'.? This would be useful for a yard or multiple industries. Also a wye could be located at the entrance of the peninsula that would allow locos to be turned. This peninsula could also incorporate a dock area for vessels which sufficient storage buildings which would allow for numerous switching possibilities.

It seems a shame to tear down what you already have built.

[camarokid]

A 22" radius helix in HO is too tight for anything larger than 40' cars and small locomotives. Is there anyway you could build 2 helixes in opposite corners? One helix to go up and the other to go down. The corners with the door would be best because of the space you lose when the door opens. And even if the door opens out (instead of in) you can still build in the corners and have enough room to get in side the helix to fix things on the layout. If at all possible try to get a helix of 24 or 26 inches. Bigger if you can fit it in the corner and still be able to get to things you will build around it. I would build the other level on top of your present bench 12 or 14 inches up. And the best part of that is you can build it as wide as you deem necessary. Most of us would only go 12" or a tad more if all you want is a longer run. Towns and other stuff can be built to fit by simply widening the bench where the buildings go. Draw up some plans and see what you think.[:)] Only you will know what you want or need to make that layout come to life. Have fun, enjoy the ride and ain't it great!!
Archie