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The Cart Before The Horse?

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Posted by jacon12 on Monday, May 30, 2005 9:25 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by CPCHARLIE

Hello Jarrell'thanks for your reply.There is no restriction on elevations'in fact all my benchwork is L-girder at 48" with 1x3 risers.I have found though that I can run trains with less lost cabooses and fewer derailments,etc when I don't have that third dimention to cause problems.
I can set a train running on it's own then take out my wayfreight and do switching and set-outs while dodging the mainline run.When friends come over it's a bit more complicated but we have fun .
I'm working on Tab-on-car forwarding to give everyone a job to do but I'm not sure how it's going to go over ...Anybody tried tab-on-car?
Regards,Charlie.
Thanks for the explanation Charlie.
Jarrell

 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.
  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
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Posted by jacon12 on Monday, May 30, 2005 9:39 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage

Jarrell,

Sorry, I should have given you the AMB web link while I was mentioning it:

http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm

They are detailed kits but are fairly straightforward to put together. Like any kit, it just takes time. I think you would be pleased with the variety and quality of their kits. If you want to see what they look like firsthand, you can see the ones I mentioned earlier on my link at the bottom of the post.

Tom

I like this part on their webpage:
"LASERKITS® are quick, easy and fun for ANY modeler to build! The novice will be thrilled with the ease of construction, the clear and simple instructions, and the professional look of the completed model…..while the experienced modeler can modify, super-detail, or elaborate to their heart's content."
and wouldn't you know that my favorite was this one..
http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm
I can pick'em every time!
Thanks Tom,
Jarrell

 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.
  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
  • 4,648 posts
Posted by jacon12 on Monday, May 30, 2005 9:41 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by FiremanLA

its an interesting question! The prototype does it both ways. In many cases a spur is built to serve an existing or planned building or area.....but the opposite also happens as enterprises build on or near existing spur locations and available land. I think a balance of both approaches is good. Many 'problem areas' have led to some of my favorite modeling scenes. Just remember there is no magic formula to solving building locations etc.....the builders are just trying to make a buck with the land available. Thats why you see odd shaped
structures in cramped high value areas...the land is to valuable to waste.

Thank you Fireman, I'll try to plan some in advance and for other spots I'll try to roll with it.
Jarrell
 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.
  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
  • 4,648 posts
Posted by jacon12 on Monday, May 30, 2005 9:44 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by johncolley

I'll see you and raise you one better. I built a 2'x8' yard throat on 2" foam with roadbeds, track and some ballasting before I realized I had made NO provision for operating all the turnouts! Dumb S..T! On my new one I am cutting all the holes and gluing all the plywood(pre-drilled for the tortoises) plates in level with the top of the foam deck. Have already installed 2 machines and tested them with roadbed and mainline #10's in place. Wow, this model railroading stuff is an endless learning curve, eh?


"Wow, this model railroading stuff is an endless learning curve, eh?
John, you can say that again! Especially when you're so new to it all, like me. I'm having to do indepth research on each and every little thing. Hey, that's the fun of it for me. Sorry about the yard, I'll bet that really ticked you off for a while!
Thanks for the input.
Jarrell
 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:41 PM
number one rule........dont be paralyzed with the fear of making an error in planning or building......if you lay track, do some building , at least a minimum of train running or operation, and pay attention....the layout will beg for the needed changes, and point out its own strengths.....in spite of the 'pain' involved, ANYTHING can be replanned or rebuilt...remember the JOURNEY is as much part of the goal as "finishing" your layout is. I am OFTEN 'frozen' from moving ahead because i worry about making the BEST decisions. Better to move ahead some and see how it goes and where it leads..one more comment about planning....................................John Allen planned everything ahead, it seems. Few of us are that 'foresighted' as to able to plan so well. Conversely, George Sellios did less planning and built as needed or as fit the space available. Few of us are as gifted in the art of improvising as George is. Both of them built layouts counted as all time favorites. Whose approach is correct? Once again, for most of us a mix of both techniques is probably best.......I have trouble visualizing too far ahead without at least beginning to rough out areas of scenery or building plots........Im starting a new layout and this time ill keep the FUN aspect foremost.....
  • Member since
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  • From: Midtown Sacramento
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Posted by Jetrock on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 1:01 AM
Indeed, the best way to improve is by trying. Even if your first results are less than spectacular, over time your skills will improve.

About structures: If you have not built kits before and are unsure about your level of skill, you might want to "test the waters" by building some inexpensive kits before dropping $150 on a laser-kit masterpiece. I'd recommend trying Atlas, Design Preservation Miniatures, or IHC kits--you can get nice little buildings for $10-15 that you won't cry too hard over if the HO scale building inspector slaps a teeny "condemned" sign on 'em. After you have tried a few plastic kits, there are small laser kits out there that run around $20-30.

Oh yeah, about building footprints: The online version of the Walthers catalog often includes the size in inches of their buildings--a useful guide.

Just wait until you hit a really good train show: at a good one you can find kits and oddball stuff that never shows up at hobby shops, sometimes at a fraction of retail. That's when my "kits to build" shelf starts groaning in protest from a mass of new kits that wouldn't fit on my layout even if I ripped up all the track to make room...
  • Member since
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  • From: US
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Posted by cmrproducts on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 6:51 AM
Jarrell

Building a freelance layout can sometimes be harder than building a prototype design. With the prototype the real railroad has done all of the hard work for you and all you have to do is copy the track layout.

Now we will have to make compromises but this is usually just leaving out one or two tracks or making them shorter, adding an extra curve, etc.

I was in the same boat way back in my early modeling and spent a lot of time trying to design layouts. Now 20 plus layouts later I can visualize much easier. As others have said, put down some track and get some trains running. You will be able to see it much better!

BOB H – Clarion, PA
  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
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Posted by jacon12 on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:24 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by FiremanLA

number one rule........dont be paralyzed with the fear of making an error in planning or building......if you lay track, do some building , at least a minimum of train running or operation, and pay attention....the layout will beg for the needed changes, and point out its own strengths.....in spite of the 'pain' involved, ANYTHING can be replanned or rebuilt...remember the JOURNEY is as much part of the goal as "finishing" your layout is. I am OFTEN 'frozen' from moving ahead because i worry about making the BEST decisions. Better to move ahead some and see how it goes and where it leads..one more comment about planning....................................John Allen planned everything ahead, it seems. Few of us are that 'foresighted' as to able to plan so well. Conversely, George Sellios did less planning and built as needed or as fit the space available. Few of us are as gifted in the art of improvising as George is. Both of them built layouts counted as all time favorites. Whose approach is correct? Once again, for most of us a mix of both techniques is probably best.......I have trouble visualizing too far ahead without at least beginning to rough out areas of scenery or building plots........Im starting a new layout and this time ill keep the FUN aspect foremost.....


....."number one rule........dont be paralyzed with the fear of making an error in planning or building......if you lay track, do some building , at least a minimum of train running or operation, and pay attention....the layout will beg for the needed changes, and point out its own strengths.....in spite of the 'pain' involved, ...."

I think this is excellent advice. I just want to know one thing. How did you know I was almost to the paralyzed state? [%-)]

......"I have trouble visualizing too far ahead without at least beginning to rough out areas of scenery or building plots........Im starting a new layout and this time ill keep the FUN aspect foremost....."
Again, excellent advice. I remember saying to myself when I started this that if it got to the point it wasn't fun I'd quit and take up playing horseshoes or something. I too have trrouble visualizing very far ahead but I thought it was because I was so new at all of it. I appreciate the thoughts and comments.
Jarrell

 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.
  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
  • 4,648 posts
Posted by jacon12 on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:30 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

Indeed, the best way to improve is by trying. Even if your first results are less than spectacular, over time your skills will improve.

About structures: If you have not built kits before and are unsure about your level of skill, you might want to "test the waters" by building some inexpensive kits before dropping $150 on a laser-kit masterpiece. I'd recommend trying Atlas, Design Preservation Miniatures, or IHC kits--you can get nice little buildings for $10-15 that you won't cry too hard over if the HO scale building inspector slaps a teeny "condemned" sign on 'em. After you have tried a few plastic kits, there are small laser kits out there that run around $20-30.

Oh yeah, about building footprints: The online version of the Walthers catalog often includes the size in inches of their buildings--a useful guide.

Just wait until you hit a really good train show: at a good one you can find kits and oddball stuff that never shows up at hobby shops, sometimes at a fraction of retail. That's when my "kits to build" shelf starts groaning in protest from a mass of new kits that wouldn't fit on my layout even if I ripped up all the track to make room...


No, you're right. I look at the really nice laser kits and drool but then reality sets in and I remember some of the structures I've attempted in the past. You would get a good laugh! I think I will stick with the lower priced ones for a while!
You know, now that I've been in this for a little while I can see better what I should have been looking for at the couple of Hobby shows I've gone to and it wasn't what I was looking at.
Ahhhh experience. There is no substitute for it!
Thanks for the help.
Jarrell
 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.
  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
  • 4,648 posts
Posted by jacon12 on Wednesday, June 1, 2005 7:32 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts

Jarrell

Building a freelance layout can sometimes be harder than building a prototype design. With the prototype the real railroad has done all of the hard work for you and all you have to do is copy the track layout.

Now we will have to make compromises but this is usually just leaving out one or two tracks or making them shorter, adding an extra curve, etc.

I was in the same boat way back in my early modeling and spent a lot of time trying to design layouts. Now 20 plus layouts later I can visualize much easier. As others have said, put down some track and get some trains running. You will be able to see it much better!

BOB H – Clarion, PA


......" Now 20 plus layouts later I can visualize much easier....."
I can't even imagine having that much experience at this.
Thanks Bob.
Jarrell
 HO Scale DCC Modeler of 1950, give or take 30 years.

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