DCC can i do it?

[rtesta]

All, thanks for the advice last week re: track spacing, the #'s fit with my plans and the advice to try it first is well taken.

next question,,, if you dont mind another general DCC quest for help.
i am building a new layout, first one in 15 years, learned alot from the old ones but all that was PRE DCC. cant seem to shake the thought that i want to "go for it!" and sound is a big part of it for me!

I have been reading what i can on it,, but the last visit to the LHS got me stares and alot of head shaking from the owner and three mature hobyists.
dont do it,
its not ready etc,
youll arc weld your switch points on and on, this LHS doesnt even stock or recocmend any one system

still i'm encouraged by all i hear and it seems theres alot of you flks out there are using DCC with success, YET still seems some issues not yet user friendly.

i'm not a klutz with alot of these things but electronics is nolt my strong point, i am preparred to spend some $$, and willing to pay for a robust system, just want it to work.
moderate sized around the wall layout in HO but not a huge roster, just like running trains. steam and diesel, would buy alot of locos already equipped like BLI etc.

so far it seems digitrax vs lens (SP?) ,, does one do better with BLI, dont understand the issues i hear aobut BLI programing

Another question for today, what seems the most robust "user firendly" system with good customer support ? lens seems a class act but not as popular as digi..

bottom line, is this stuff ready ?
is the sound realistic enough to enhance the experience?
will i weld my points?

finally, which loco manufacturers make the best ready to run DCC w/ sound equippment, do life like and kato offer fully equipped locos and are they worht the price.

sorry for all the rambling, but appreciate the help!

bobt

[BRVRR]

bobt,
Don't let the nay sayers discourage you. DCC is ready and comparatively easy to use. Since you're building a new layout, now is the time. I use a Digitrax Zephyr with a DT400 throttle and a couple of MRC Railpower 1300s on the jump ports.
My advice is to read everything you can, decide what you need for your layout and planned operating circumstances and then compare systems and manufacturers.
There are several links to helpful sites on my website, link is in my signature. Once on site just pu***he Links button. You will find a lot of useful information there. A couple of the linked sites have comparison tables for the various DCC systems. Several have simple but thorough explanations of DCC and its practical application. In short, a world of knowledge! Good luck with you new endeavor.
My website was updated today. Lots of new photos!

[howmus]

rtesta, GO FOR IT!!! I waffled over it for about 2 years, read all the pros and cons. If you are building a new layout, it is the only way to go.... Don't even think DC. DCC allows you to run the train instead of playing with toggle switches, stopping because you missed a block toggle entering a block thrown the other way. What a pain DC is. DCC wiring is far easier. For some great info on DCC go to: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/ The only thing I advise against is the lightbulb trick. DCC has built in short protection. If you create a short somewhere, you want it to shut down (so you don't fry your switch points, decoders, or create a fire on your layout, etc. I have a Digitrax Super Empire Builder and love it. Read up on the various DCC systems out there and pick the one that has the things you want and need. Most are excellent systems.

You're LHS is liiving in the dark ages................. That is like saying, "well I don't trust computers, my sliderule works just fine and stuff I send in a envelope will get there... Nope no e-mail for me". Duh! Yes the stuff is ready! Most of the systems give excellent customer support. Read the numerous threads here at the forum about DCC and you will get a good idea of where to start.

Good luck!

[selector]

I, too, use the Super Empire Builder, and I love it. By all means, join the land of the progressive, and get into DCC. You won't regret it. If you want some advice, tag along with jfugate on his DCC thread as he goes through the steps of building a layout based on 12 years (yup, 12!) in DCC. Randy (rrinker) has been a big help to several of us, and he is in the throes of buying a Super Empire Builder, last I heard.

As for sound-equipped locos, I am pretty certain that you would be quite pleased with any of them, no matter who makes them. The market seems to have imposed a demand for better detailed, better running, and good sounding locos, so anyone who wants to stay in the game sells them. You should find an LHS where the air isn't polluted with the smell of hemp, and ask THEM to show you some nice locos from various companies. For what it is worth, my only two engines are a BLI Hudson with QSI sound, and it is a marvel. My little LL Proto 2000 Heritage series 0-6-0 is a gem to behold, and it runs well enough with a Sound-traxx DSD100LC decoder...it could be better, though. I think I will invest in a better decoder e'er long.

As Ray says, take your time and get really comfortable with a lot of reading. Make notes as you read, and then use them to come up with a plan. If you would like feedback, post it here, and we'll tell you what we think.

[Anonymous]

I've been around MRR all my life. My grandpa and my dad built a large layout in grandpa's basement when they found out I was coming along... I had a couple of "toy" layouts when I was a kid, was away from MRR for a while during college, and now in my mid 30's, kids of my own, and dad and I are working on a large layout in the basement again...

Point being, I wired and ran DC stuff all my life. When we started to set up the new layout, there were some boxes in the basement that dad brough over when I moved out and built a new house... The boxes were full of stuff that grandpa had saved for me from his layout - transformers, switches, 100's of feet of brass code 100 flex track, and this really huge aluminum plate with toggle switches installed on them... I took one look at that and decied right then and there that I was going DCC - didn't want the kids to have to learn about blocks and worry about throwing all of those switches. I wanted them to enjoy the layout.

That said, I have used/owned 2 different DCC systems - the MRC Prodigy Advanced and the Digitrax Zephyr. I had a bunch of problems when I used the Advanced, but I think it was due to some bad MRC decoders, not the DCC system itself. But alas, I sold the Prodigy and bought a Digitrax Zephyr and have been really happy with it so far - but I also haven't bought any more MRC decoders - using all Digitrax stuff now. I'm sure the MRC DCC stuff is good quality, but for me, the Digitrax worked out great, and the kids can use it (under supervision), and my pops has even figured it out.

And installing decoders in locos yourself realyl isn't too hard. Some take more time to take the shell off the frame than it does to install the decoder, like a P2K plug and play model decoder from Digitrax. Some are more challenging, like the old Athearn's, but even then, it only took my about 1/2 hour to install, including changing the light.

Basically, I found that if I was patient and thought about what I was doind, that htings worked out really well. Don't be intimidated by DCC - there are lots of great people on the board that will help you, as they did for me.

[cacole]

You must have been talking to some really old geezers who have their minds so made up about DCC that no one could ever convince them otherwise. Weld switch point together? Bull!! DC can do that, too, if you have 50 Amps on the rail, but no system puts out anywhere near that much power. I've never heard of anyone ever having that happen to them, and I've been using both DC and DCC for many years. Even a 10 Amp power booster is not going to cause a spark or welding of switch points because the voltage applied to the track is no more than 14 Volts high-frequency, square wave, alternating DC. Besides that, the DCC booster's internal protection circuitry is going to shut it down immediately when you have a short circuit caused by a derailment.

[davekelly]

There are lots of threads on this forum that are packed full of information. Jfugate and rrinker are probably the resident experts in DCC and have posted dozens if not hundreds of posts that have helped many folks here. These guys are what makes this hobby great!! I would also try going to a couple of websites - Tony's Train Exchange's website is full of information.

I'm still in the middle of making my decision on which system (as well as saving some cash up for it - being unemployed is the pits!) would be right for me. While it may seem frustrating to choose between so many systems - the fact that there are so many systems out there is good - none have been labeled (as far as I know it) as "junk."

Spend the time to do your homework - pick the system that suits you - and have fun!

[Anonymous]

Your profile doesn't say what part of the country you are in, but if there are other modelers nearby, modelers who operate with DCC you might visit a few and learn what system(s) seem to be most popular in your area. If six guys already own Digitrax, for example, you know there will be some local Digitrax help out there if you need it. If most of the guys in your area use NCE or CVP or whatever, that might be a good way to go.
At any rate, welcome back. Once you get those trains running with DCC you'll never look back!!!!!!!

[Phil1361]

"alternating DC."

cacole meant to say alternating current. DCC is a high frrequency square wave that is constantly changing direction therefore it is AC.

My advice is to get all the info you can an go for it. I do not have DCC yet but I am planning it for my layout in the future. I agree block control can be a pain in the butt.

[Anonymous]

I am starting on DCC and use Digitrax. If you get lost as I do now and then, I have found that Digitrax will respond to e-mails rapidly with the info to get you started again. Buy the Digitrax "Big Book" for info

[Bikerdad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rtesta

All, thanks for the advice last week re: track spacing, the #'s fit with my plans and the advice to try it first is well taken.

next question,,, if you dont mind another general DCC quest for help.
i am building a new layout, first one in 15 years, learned alot from the old ones but all that was PRE DCC. cant seem to shake the thought that i want to "go for it!" and sound is a big part of it for me!

You do want to go for it, or you wouldn't be asking, now would you? [:D]

QUOTE: I have been reading what i can on it,, but the last visit to the LHS got me stares and alot of head shaking from the owner and three mature hobyists.
dont do it,
its not ready etc,
youll arc weld your switch points on and on, this LHS doesnt even stock or recocmend any one system

I wouldn't spend much time looking to that LHS for DCC assistance. [:(]

QUOTE: still i'm encouraged by all i hear and it seems theres alot of you flks out there are using DCC with success, YET still seems some issues not yet user friendly.

Like ANY electronic system, there are design quirks that result from the engineers and designers not thinking quite like you think. Its kinda like motorcycle seats. Everybody's butt is different, so some seats are comfortable for some folks, and agony for others.

QUOTE: i'm not a klutz with alot of these things but electronics is nolt my strong point, i am preparred to spend some $$, and willing to pay for a robust system, just want it to work.
moderate sized around the wall layout in HO but not a huge roster, just like running trains. steam and diesel, would buy alot of locos already equipped like BLI etc.
so far it seems digitrax vs lens (SP?) ,, does one do better with BLI, dont understand the issues i hear aobut BLI programing

Basically, there are three "robust" systems commonly available in the North America today. Lenz, Digitrax, and NCE. All three will meet your needs, try to get your hands on their throttles to see which is friendliest to YOU. There are workarounds for all three with the BLI programming issue.

QUOTE: Another question for today, what seems the most robust "user firendly" system with good customer support ? lens seems a class act but not as popular as digi..

See if you can try the systems out at a club or some such.

QUOTE: bottom line, is this stuff ready ?

Yes.

QUOTE: is the sound realistic enough to enhance the experience?

Yes, although from what I've heard, it is best to turn the sound down from the factory setting when actually running on your layout, otherwise it ends up being overpowering. Robust sound levels are good in the LHS to wow customers, not so good on layout. AFAIK, all sound decoders allow volume control.

QUOTE: ]will i weld my points?

Only if you unhook your DCC system, hook up a MIG, and go to it!

QUOTE: finally, which loco manufacturers make the best ready to run DCC w/ sound equippment, do life like and kato offer fully equipped locos and are they worht the price.

Can't speak for HO, but BLI is very highly regarded. LifeLike does offer fully equipped locos, TMK, Kato does not but all their recent stuff is completely DCC ready.

[Anonymous]

I just took the DCC plunge at the end of last year. I settled on the MRC Prodigy Advance for the simple reason that I liked the hand held throttle that came with the system (as well as the rest of the features offered). While I liked some of the other competetively priced systems, they did not come with as nice a throttle while staying within the price range I was looking in. With Digitrax (Zephyr), a hand held throttle was an additional component to purchase. With NCE, the system had the features and the throttle, but cost nearly twice as much. Bachmann EZ Command had neither the features nor the hand held throttle, but can be found for less than $60 from some of the on-line shops. While all the systems offer features for some folks, they may not offer you the features you want most. The best bet is to list the features that are must-haves, followed by nice-to-haves. Compare the systems that offer must have features, then make your decision based on price and nice to have features as you see fit. In my case, the hand held throttle was the big "must-have" feature and the primary reason I chose the Prodigy Advance.

I also have a BLI switcher and a couple of Lionel Challengers that all use QSI sound decoders, and they are a little more challenging to program than some of the others. Basically, though, they can all be programmed by entering specific CV values into them as shown in the manual. It is more complicated to do this way, but does allow most DCC systems to program these locos. There are a couple systems (Bachmann EZ Command & MRC original Prodigy possibly?) that don't allow you to program all the CVs directly, from what I understand. This would be something to investigate prior to purchase. There have been numerous posts on this forum regarding this subject.

[simon1966]

I can not imagine not going DCC. I made the switch about 9 months ago. The thing about DCC is that it does not have to be complex. It is really a matter of how deep you want to go. I went with a Zephyr, soon added some walk around throttles DT400 and a PC interface and am running the Decoderpro application for decoder setup. I enjoy the installation of decoders and am getting more adventurous in this area. So far things have been very reliable. My 5 and 7 year olds run my system on their own with BLI sound locos without any issues. Turnouts have been run in the wrong direction and their has never been a hint of welded points. Anyone who does not think that DCC is ready for prime time is living in the stone age.

[Anonymous]

Hi rtesta. I would say do yourself a favor with DCC and buy a nice system from the get!! It is much easier to "grow into" a system, than to buy a new system in 6 months and have to learn all over again. As far as programming BLI engines.... I am using a Lenz 100 system, and had some issues programming 3 of my BLI engines. (RSD-15, NW-2, and SW-7). I talked to Lenz and they told me the Lenz system does not have a problem putting out a lot of current, but on certain BLI engines the Lenz system is seeing their decoder for programming as a short. With the Lenz setup, here is what I did to correct the problem:
Install heavy wire to my programming track, I am using 14AWG stranded copper.
I also installed a 20 ohm resistor into one of the legs of the 14 AWG copper feeds. My controller was giving me an "error 2" message when trying to program, which means the system is seeing too little resistance. In essence, a short. The 20 ohm resistor took care of the problem when soldered into the feed. My SW-7, and NW-2 have programmed fine now on the first try. My other RSD-15 I sent back to BLI to be checked before I knew of this rememdy. I am sure it would now program fine as well.
I think you will like DCC, it sure brings the hobby into this century!!

[rtesta]

All, THANKS for the replies and advice,

bikerdad, your right, i do want to go for it! just trying to be the smart intelligent consumer and all that.
the advice here has been hands down so the basic question is settled. within 6-9 months i'll share my experiences good and bad and divulge what system i go with.
these forums are a great asset and fun too.
hope i can help in the future.

any advice on how i can update my profile, dumb question maybe but it doesnt seem obvious
also, whats the best way to link up with some local folks, ive been a soloist for years and i do realize the value of some hands on experiece.

dont know if its savy to stick in what town your in in these msgs but hows Orange county NY for a start.

best to all
bobt

[selector]

For updating your profile, just look at the top of this page, and find the light blue "update profile" towards the right,between 'help' and 'logout'. Click on that, you'll be prompted for verification of who you really are (user name and password in the appropriate boxes), and when the next window opens, scroll down and add/modify in the appropriate boxes as you see fit. When you are done that, be sure to submit it at the bottom (can't remember if it says submit or 'update profile').