I bought this layout a while back and I have a problem spot where two section of track meet together in a curve. The joint is a bit sharper than the rest of the curve and it is causing 6 axel locomotives to derail. The curve is already 18" radius so anything past that is obviously a problem. The track and ballast are glued down. Any suggestions on how to correct this with minimal damage to the layout?
I have very little experience with layout building.
Here are some pictures showing the entire curve and the section causing the problem.
Thanks!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53922716747_ac80b3ece9_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53923608716_e509e7fed5_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53924061540_7cec2aa6f3_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53924061545_a055cdfc7e_b.jpg
You need to remove the track, lay it straight on a work table and solder the outsides of the rails at the joints. Leave the rail joiners in place and completely encase the rail joiners with solder. When you place the track back on the layout, the derailment-causing kinks will be gone. Kinks on curves cannot be reliably eliminated with the track in place on the layout.
Rich
Alton Junction
Ibanez -
Do you have any friends with layouts? Or do you live in a town that has a club, preferably one that models HO? There may well be someone who would be glad to get together with you and walk you through an effective process to remove this portion of the curve, apply the fix, reinstall it, and then reballast. You will learn a lot in the process. Rich (above) has some good ideas. Don't allow yourself to be intimidated, stuff like this is not uncommon and the fix is doable.
BTW, it might help if folks here on the forum knew where you lived - if you're willing to at least name a town.
John
If you could move the car and house, it would be a bonus, but if not, some cloths laid beside the track will help the boiling/hot water, applied sparingly, that you will need to loosen the ballast and the caulk with the aid of a thin scraper, from going everywhere. Then you will need to remove the track nails to allow that joint to be “finessed.” The Mark1 eyeball and an NMRA HO gauge, just to check that the track remains in gauge, should do the trick.
I would also use more track nails than usual, as required to make sure that join remains “flowing.” (I’m not a fan of caulk) I also wouldn’t bother soldering the rail at the joint, but then that’s just me!
Before ballasting, I’d then be running trains every which way to make sure that the problem is gone.
The suggestion that you try to find local modellers to help is a good one, if you haven’t done a task like tis before, it can look rather daunting.
Take your time, have fun!
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
After looking at your four photos once again, let me make another comment.
Never start a curve right at the end of a straight section of track. Instead, start back a few inches before the curve starts and begin with a small length of straight track. In your situation, you should start at the end of the turnout on the left side and finish at the bridge on the right side. All of the track between those to points should be soldered at the rail joints on the work table and then moved into place on the layout.
One more thing.
Using that road that runs vertically on your layout, crossing the curve at both ends, what is the distance from the center of the track on the left to the center of the track on the right? That measurement will help to determine the radius of the curve.
Cut off the spikes on the inside of the curve an inch or more if needed from the kink, then shove the rail over till you get a curve you like and spike it in place. It will be less than an 18" radius at that point but may save you tearing out stuff to fix depending on what you are running.
rrebell Cut off the spikes on the inside of the curve an inch or more if needed from the kink, then shove the rail over till you get a curve you like and spike it in place. It will be less than an 18" radius at that point but may save you tearing out stuff to fix depending on what you are running.
Unfortunately, the modelers who are suggesting that you remove the whole curve and replace it are right. I've had the same problem and that's what I did. I would suggest getting a Ribbon Rail track guage to make sure you don't accidentally pinch down the radius.
I would get a clean, new piece of flex track to do this. Who knows what adhesive was used to put down this track and ballast? If you're kind of scared about avoiding kinks and a bit of tight radius, you could get 18 inch curved sectional track and build the curve with that. I would use flex track, but the sectional track would be a bit more bullet proof if you're not used to track laying.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I had the same challenge as the OP. I rushed the original tracklaying.
My solution was to uplift four pieces of track and relay it properly.
It was easy for me as I do not glue down the track or ballast; just pin down the track.
What I believe has happened to the OPs track is further back along the curve the track laid was so very slight from the true curve causing a bigger kink at the final piece of track. That is why I suggest uplifting four or maybe five peces of track and relaying properly.
To me, the original builder rushed the track laying and realised the fault, hence 'getting rid'. Just correct the builders tracklaying and relay the track properly.
Okay, so it means destroying what is laid, but relaying properly will bring endless joy in the long run.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
Hello All,
MisterBeasleyUnfortunately, the modelers who are suggesting that you remove the whole curve and replace it are right.
I agree with Rich, this is one way to do it...
richhotrainYou need to remove the track, lay it straight on a work table and solder the outsides of the rails at the joints. Leave the rail joiners in place and completely encase the rail joiners with solder. When you place the track back on the layout, the derailment-causing kinks will be gone.
It's also how I've built the curves and installed them on my pike with sectional track.
My concern is that the ballast and roadbed are already established.
Correcting the kink might put the track center offline from the roadbed center and not match the other half of the curve.
This would create the same problem further down the track- -opening another "can of worms".
MisterBeasleyI would get a clean, new piece of flex track to do this.
I don't think there is an "easy" solution but using flex track would be the "simplest".
Another concern is track power feeders soldered to the existing track from below.
If there are any in this section, removing and soldering the sections on a table would need to take these into consideration.
When using flex track the "sliding" rail is on the inside of the curve.
You will also need a pair of track cutters, Xuron 2175B - Track Cutters are the most popular.
A "Dremel" or rotary tool won't work because of the angle of the cutting disk to the track due to the body of the tool won't make a straight cut.
When using flex track the last few ties will need to be removed so you can slide the rail joiners on the rails and then slid back in place.
The missing ties can be replaced by sanding them thinner so they can slide under the newly installed track.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Thanks everyone, this has been helpful.
I'll double check but I'm pretty sure the distance is 36" from center to center at the start of the curve.
This only affects 6 axel locomotives, and I have plenty of 4 axel locomotives to run so this isn't a huge priority at the moment, but I do want to get it fixed. I'll be sure to post an update when I do.
I'm located in Holts Summit, Missouri.
Good luck and do keep us posted.
Your measurements do indicate an 18" radius on that curve. A bit tight but workable. Even if you fix that kink on the curve, 6-axle diesels will be challenged on 18" radius curves.
I agree that the whole curve should be redone. Just remember that the real railroads rip up and replace track all the time and put down new ballast and when it is all done it does not look like the old stuff down the line a few metres. I wouldn't worry about the aesthetics, it will just look more like a real RR. It will be a learning experience.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Hello all,
BATMAN...real railroads rip up and replace track all the time and put down new ballast and when it is all done it does not look like the old stuff down the line a few metres. I wouldn't worry about the aesthetics, it will just look more like a real RR...
That's a great point!
In my opinion, what makes scenery plausible is the ability to model the imperfections.
From the photos I have seen of many European pikes the "cleanliness" detracts from the realism- -with a few exceptions like Pelle Søeborg.
After replacing the track, getting the ballast "exactly" right should not be a concern, "just good enough" might add to the aesthetics of this section of your pike.
jjdamnit In my opinion, what makes scenery plausible is the ability to model the imperfections. From the photos I have seen of many European pikes the "cleanliness" detracts from the realism- -with a few exceptions like Pelle Søeborg. After replacing the track, getting the ballast "exactly" right should not be a concern, "just good enough" might add to the aesthetics of this section of your pike. Hope this helps.
I agree.
A case of looking at the real and seeinng what you see and not what you thought you saw.
Nature has her own agenda with 'things being not perfect'.
The things seen that are 'man made' that are broken is a big list on its own.
Well I think I have a temporary fix for now. I noticed if I pushed on the rails at the joint I could get them to flex enough to match the curve, so I put 2 track nails right up against the rails to keep them in place. They are low enough to not affect any wheel flanges.
I tried one of the 2 problem locomotives and no more derailments!
https://flic.kr/p/2qb3YBm
Also, I know this is off topic, but can someone tell me how to post photos directly to this forum? I've used a lot of forums and posted pictures with no problems but I can't figure this one out.
Glad you found a solution.
To post photos go to the "General Discussion" tab and look at the fist post by Steve Otte on "How to Post a Photo to the Forums"
jjdamnit Hello All, Glad you found a solution. To post photos go to the "General Discussion" tab and look at the fist post by Steve Otte on "How to Post a Photo to the Forums" Hope this helps.
2024-08-19 19.23.00 by Joshua Hufford, on Flickr
A perfectly acceptable fix, IMO, though to my eye it does look if it needs a little more. But if your locomotives are running through without issue...
Cheers, the Bear.