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starting the process to scratch build (read print) a sherszer lift bridge

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starting the process to scratch build (read print) a sherszer lift bridge
Posted by NVSRR on Monday, June 19, 2023 8:16 PM

So the new layout under planning has a port area based on various ports i hav ebeen studing.  reallt is hard to fit even a scaled down selective compressed one.    in this plan is an inlet. which has to be crossed by a lift bridge.   or temporary lift plywood in the mean time til this is done.  figuring a couple years.   I have been looking at these bridges and found on the cuyahoga river cleaveland by route 90 is an NKP double track lift bridge that is a good match for the location on the ayout.  Google and bing tuened up a few pics and a few tidbits.  but nothing I can work with ibn the way of drawings with dimensions. alll the pics are from a distance. an not very clear for designing a model after.  mine will be slightly more generic.  any place with better pics or data or prints of this bridge?     I did find a measured drawing of PRR bridge 458 over the calumet river.  but htat is smaller and skewed. 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, June 19, 2023 9:22 PM

Surely there are measured drawings of a Scherzer (note sp.) rolling lift bridge somewhere in this community!

it was my naive understanding that most of the load-bearing structure was the same as a bascule bridge.  The difference is in the rolling sectors on tracks that substitute for hinges, and the corresponding provisions in the counterweighting (which aren't as critical on a model).

This might also simplify what you'd have to print to 'kitbash' an existing bascule design or kit.

 

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Posted by NScale4x8 on Monday, June 19, 2023 10:21 PM

I have designed 3D models and printed N Sclae lift bridges including my model of the longest single-track Scherzer rolling lift bridge in the world.: https://nscale4by8.github.io/nscale4x8/printedModels/Custom3DPrintedBridges.html

 

https://industrialscenery.blogspot.com/2018/09/abanb-1907-bridge-464-near-cuyahoga.html

 

https://nscale4by8.github.io/nscale4x8/

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, June 20, 2023 8:48 AM

NScale4x8
I have designed 3D models and printed N Sclae lift bridges including my model of the longest single-track Scherzer rolling lift bridge in the world.

This 3D printed stuff makes my brass BLMA bridge look pretty bad.

Great work!

Bow

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by gmpullman on Tuesday, June 20, 2023 1:55 PM

Not much but a starting point, at least.

 CTnV Lift Bridge by Edmund, on Flickr

From Library of Congress. {edit} Clicking on image will take you to Flickr where you can download a decent-sized copy.

Good Luck, Ed

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Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, June 20, 2023 4:42 PM

I scratched and bashed that bridge 6yrs. ago and did have a small thread about it here on MR. Some that have answered You may not have seen it' It is not an exact replica but close. I built it for a section on the layout that had a low ceiling, so the counter weights are a little shorter. I started with a double track truss bridge from Walthers and everything else was scratched from Evergreen shapes and Central Valley.. I got all the dementions I needed from this info from the bridge using an HO scale ruler:

https://i.imgur.com/znMfrNc.jpg

 Looks like I'll have to make more than one answer.

If You click on the pic', You can get a larger view........goes for all the pic's.

Take Care!Big Smile

Frank

 

 

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Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, June 20, 2023 4:59 PM

 

Some shots of the completed and construction of the bridge:

https://i.imgur.com/PAD9mID.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0iEAh7x.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/25ozWaj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/rqDWuPh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/EKWup3K.jpg

The building also has an interior:

https://i.imgur.com/Ma2A57c.jpg

I'll follow this thread for awhile, if You have any questions.

Take Care! Smile, Wink & Grin

Frank

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Posted by NVSRR on Tuesday, June 20, 2023 7:52 PM

OK this isnt a scherzers.  this wa as lesson in hunting online and hwo some dont tell you the whole story.    In this alignment prioor to this parker span high level verticle lift bridge, was a 167 foot scherzer.   when the scherzer was weak, this was decided to replace it. thing is, the river and bridge had heavy traffic.  shuttin down for long periods of the river and rail was not in the game.  the lake traffic died between dec and april giving some window.   original plan was to take the scherzer span, reinforce it and modify it to be the center span while it was in service.    this is where the sites stopped.  they failed to say was that didnt happen.  The scherszer was 100 feet to short for this design and couldnt be modified in service.  to much stress would be imparted from the added wieght to keep it working before being lifted up to be the center span on this one.   So the parker truss span was built instead.   that is where I got the scherzer part from.  and the research lesson.   

 

Thanks to Engineering News Record, they had an article on the construction of this bridge.     I now know. this is NKP bridge 184.  And that it is a parker truss high level.  The concretr foundation  piers are poured aroud the scherzers piers.  10x13, width wise at 33 foot center and longitudinal 46.5 feet.  matches the main colums of the tower giving me the tower diemsions. it also listed the towers as 150 from pier top to axle for the sheavs.  with the parker truss at 267 footlong and a track centerline spacing of 12.6 the verticle track clearence is the only thing I dont know.    everything else I can extraplated from what i have.   The space the centerspan will fit on the new layout will be a two foot span.  still impressive.    Google earth actually drone shot of the bridge.  didnt know they did that. I still need prints for details like how the wieghts are connected, the machinery rooms and how the cable got there.  other minor details. at the same time sketch out what the scale model will be in the new layout space.     off to the library of congress and the NKP historical society to try to get more. 

This is going to be a challange and fun and a long build. yay for printing part of it. 

Shane

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, June 21, 2023 5:05 AM

I just happen to have one of those too! This was a kit, with many added scratched details by Me. Was also in a build thread in MRR.

https://i.imgur.com/2XKJeui.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/F0NU8uH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YFPT4F7.jpg

Take Care! Smile, Wink & Grin

Frank

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, June 21, 2023 8:22 AM

I am a bit confused about this thread. Has the OP edited the text of his initial post?

Does he want to scratch build a scherzer rolling lift bascule bridge or a vertical lift bridge?

Something seems to have changed since this thread was first posted.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, June 21, 2023 9:34 AM

richhotrain
richhotrain wrote the following post an hour ago: I am a bit confused about this thread. Has the OP edited the text of his initial post?

From scratch building, to history lessons.......????

Hi Rich......

Take Care!Smile, Wink & Grin

Frank

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, June 21, 2023 9:39 AM

richhotrain
I am a bit confused about this thread. Has the OP edited the text of his initial post?

I don't think the text has changed, but my understanding of what he wants certainly has.

I initially took the 'lift' in his question to refer to that phrase 'Scherzer rolling lift bridge' -- since he quoted the bridge type by name.  However, I had a sort of Han Solo uneasy feeling about this, and the comment about PRR bridge 458 made this spill over into research this morning.

Bridge 458 is a Chicago landmark -- and very much a vertical lift bridge with openwork towers.  There are even pictures from ~1915 that show how the central lift span was built, on falsework cantilevered out from the towers, perhaps a response to the difficulties with the Quebec Bridge construction.

I'm certain there are 3D files for different types of lift bridges, and I know several people on this list have built them and probably know the pitfalls and 'tips and tricks' to make one... especially one that allows human access to part of the layout.

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Wednesday, June 21, 2023 10:49 AM

zstripe
 
richhotrain
richhotrain wrote the following post an hour ago: I am a bit confused about this thread. Has the OP edited the text of his initial post? 

From scratch building, to history lessons.......????

Hi Rich......

Take Care!Smile, Wink & Grin

Frank

I dunno, I've been able to follow along (the spell-check has been a bit of a head-scratcher, though). The process of designing stuff often goes off on a tangent every once in a while. Free flow of ideas and whatnot. Particularly in proto-freelance model railroading. And also particularly when melding and merging two different, but similar, styles of bridge. Either one, in its purest form, would be perfectly suitable; but I would also enjoy a thoughtful hybrid amalgamation.

Just my opinion, of course.

Robert

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by NVSRR on Wednesday, June 21, 2023 6:40 PM

g

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by NVSRR on Wednesday, June 21, 2023 6:41 PM

I am in 403 forbidden exhile again. apparently occassionally aloud to visit

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

  • Member since
    March 2011
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Posted by NVSRR on Wednesday, June 21, 2023 6:55 PM
It wasnt much of a situation of going on another tangent. more of a learning abou t the object in question. in this case, google put up a bunch of sites that were not good informationally. but not knowing that until finding an engineering document that proved the first site didnt have the right info. so I was able to correctly identify the specific structure propperly. good reason to do alot of research when working on something. Verifying the info already found. I would have been interested to see a finished resault of a modified scherszer reused in the high level. as it is bridge 184 is historic. this 403 forbidden is really bad for me this time and very intermittent

A pessimist sees a dark tunnel

An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel

A realist sees a frieght train

An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, June 22, 2023 6:28 AM

A few years back, I scratch built, well kit bashed/scratch built, a vertical lift bridge using three Walthers Arched Pratt Double Track Bridges to build the main span and Central Valley parts to construct the towers. I chose to make it non-operational. I modeled the bridge based upon the PRR 458 Vertical Lift Bridge that crosses the South Branch of the Chicago River at Canal Street.

I ran a thread about the construction of my model back then, but Photobucket destroyed it by removing all of the photos during one of their fee tirades. Here is a photo of my finished model.

The vertical lift bridge that the OP is considering is different than mine in several ways but mainly in the shape of the towers which are more similar to Frank's model.

Walthers has produced a series of bridges including swing bridges and bascule bridges, but to my knowledge has never produced a vertical lift bridge. Custom Model Railroads (CMR) has such a model, like the type that the OP is contemplating, but it is quite pricey.

 https://www.custommodelrailroads.com/VLB-DT-N.aspx

Rich

 

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, June 22, 2023 6:32 AM

zstripe
 
richhotrain
richhotrain wrote the following post an hour ago: I am a bit confused about this thread. Has the OP edited the text of his initial post? 

From scratch building, to history lessons.......????

Hi Rich......

Take Care!Smile, Wink & Grin

Frank 

Frankie, how goes it? Good to see and hear from you.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, June 26, 2023 7:22 PM

This is a neat inspiration:

I've been to the Buzzards Bay bridge. It is a neat structure.

The Nickel Plate lift bridge in the Cleveland Flats:

 NS - Cleveland, OH by d.w.davidson, on Flickr

 Parts of the viaduct are still lettered for Nickel Plate Road:

 Nickel Plate Road Alco PA 190 going over the NKP trestle in Cleveland Ohio that’s still have nkp on it and Passing the Olmsted Falls depot by Coal And Steel  Railroad   Photography, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

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