DCC

[Anonymous]

Hey all..Its been awhile! Hope everyone had a good new year? Ok some of you may remember me in the past post about DCC! Ok..I`am getting close to going out and getting the unit! Have tryed in the passed but (wife) wanted a new dishwasher and so on..[:(]But I now have the money saved up! We are looking to run 3 to 4 trains! 2 of the trains will be main line units....the others will be yard and what not! What is a good DCC system for the money? And with the unit will i`ll beable to run all the trains at the same time? and diff speeds? Thanks guys/gals for your time![8)]

[dano99a]

Digitrax Zepher, IMO is the best place to start. It's affordable, expandable and can handle a good amount of locomotives.

I have heard that Lenz makes a good start setup as well however look to others to post about that as I have no experience with it and have no knowledge of it. Only that there seems to be over all positive dicussions about Lenz products on this forum.

[NZRMac]

Lenz is a good start too. Expandable, wireless with cordless phone and adaptor, and has all the usual functions.

I've got the compact model (basic functions) but I can expand from there.
It's the same as the Atlas commander.

Ken.

[Anonymous]

While I have heard many complaints about MRC, that it is a basic or beginners set. I am extremely happy with my PRODIGY. It offers simple programing, easy to use, and the controls (for me at least) are easy to find. Also I prefer the rotary throttle. There seems to be some concern about compatability with BLI locos. Mine programed good on the first try. True you only have the light and 4 functions, but the other sounds; water injection, steam blowdown, are all sounds most people will never use other than in auto mode anyway.
The prodigy advance has corrected all of the "problems" which I have never seen. For less than $150 gets you up and running, extra throttle for $39.
I can run 4 trains at a time, which is about all my layout can handle anyway.
Why spend more?

[Anonymous]

Prodigy Advance so this is a good model to get? And thats the name of it right? My local hobby shop is new and needs to make sure they names are right...

[Pennsy58]

Yes, it is called the Prodigy Advance and is made by MRC. I would recommend it over the basic prodigy system as I have used both. The new advance system can handle all programming functions, all the BLI sound features, and it has been flawless for me. It is very simple to start using. In my eyes, you cant beat the price being that you a getting a total system.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by superhonhon

While I have heard many complaints about MRC, that it is a basic or beginners set. I am extremely happy with my PRODIGY. It offers simple programing, easy to use, and the controls (for me at least) are easy to find. Also I prefer the rotary throttle. There seems to be some concern about compatability with BLI locos. Mine programed good on the first try. True you only have the light and 4 functions, but the other sounds; water injection, steam blowdown, are all sounds most people will never use other than in auto mode anyway.
The prodigy advance has corrected all of the "problems" which I have never seen. For less than $150 gets you up and running, extra throttle for $39.
I can run 4 trains at a time, which is about all my layout can handle anyway.
Why spend more?

Where can I get an extra throttle for $39. I paid 179.99 + shipping for my "prodigy advance " I don't have everything up and running yet or I would offer some advice . Being that you have use the system for little while - can you use a lighted car (or caboose) with out a decoder with the "prodigy advance "
thanks, ennout
[:p]

[rrinker]

A lighted car or caboose without a decoder will work on any DCC system, including the Prodigy. Typically it's just a light bulb or three connected to the track.
The only problem that may come up is the volatge on many systems is slightly above 12V, which may shorten the life of the bulb. Running under DC< you are seldom at full throttle and thus usually less than 12V across the bulb. Running ocntinuously as full power may also heat the bulb enough to melt plastic. I've also noticed with my P2K caboose that at full brightness the light bleeds through the shella nd looks way too toy-like. If I could get the darn shell off without breaking the thing, I'd install a resistor or just yank the light bulb completely.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

extra throttle for $39 what would this be needed for? This is the first time..I have heard about this!! Hmm..maybe I should keep reading more before I start! Its almost like i`am scared to start!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

A lighted car or caboose without a decoder will work on any DCC system, including the Prodigy. Typically it's just a light bulb or three connected to the track.
The only problem that may come up is the volatge on many systems is slightly above 12V, which may shorten the life of the bulb. Running under DC< you are seldom at full throttle and thus usually less than 12V across the bulb. Running ocntinuously as full power may also heat the bulb enough to melt plastic. I've also noticed with my P2K caboose that at full brightness the light bleeds through the shella nd looks way too toy-like. If I could get the darn shell off without breaking the thing, I'd install a resistor or just yank the light bulb completely.

--Randy

Thanks Randy,
I thought I read here from someone that you can't run analog with a Prodigy, or Prodigy Advanced. I am still trying to figure all this kind of stuff out.

[Anonymous]

You can not run analog LOCOS with the Prodigy (you can with the Zephyr). For other stuff that requires power (e.g., your lighted car), there is no difference.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mktrains

You can not run analog LOCOS with the Prodigy (you can with the Zephyr). For other stuff that requires power (e.g., your lighted car), there is no difference.

Thanks Mktrains, that helps alot.
ennout

[Anonymous]

First, all DCC systems have the capability to run analog (non decoder equipped) locomotives including Prodigy. It is available as channel 1.
So you can only run 1 analog loco at a time.
And the extra throttles, or hand held controllers. Let me explain a little.
Try to think of them like the remote control for your TV. One remote can contol any number of TV's/CD/DVD/VCR/surround sound.....but you can only do one at a time. The base Prodigy system is capable of 32 channels. All the different channels are independent, set 1 to fwd at speed xx, set 2 rev at speed xx, set 3 to fwd at speed xxx, ect all will continue to operate until given a different command.
So in theory; you have 32 TV's one remote control, your wife has a remote #2, she can contol any of the remaining 31 TV's, your son has remote #3 he has his choice of the remaing 30.
I believe this is true of all DCC systems, most of the higher end units are capable to 128 channels.
Also the base power supply of the Prodigy limits it to 4 engines at a time.
So you have the capability for 4 handheld contollers (operators)
and 31 channels plus 1 analog loco.
All of this is for the old Prodigy unit, I think the ADVANCE has 128 channels.

[Anonymous]

OK..so I`am only able to run 4 locos at a time? And 1 of the locos does not need to have the DCC chip? I`am going to go get the Prodigy Advance this up comimg week!

[rlbeetle]

The Prodigy Advance manual says it will NOT run analog (non DCC) locos.

http://www.tonystrains.com/download/mrc-advance-man.pdf

That is one reason I stayed away from it, even though I have been told the MRC is the easiest to learn and I like the throttle.

[rrinker]

NOT all DCC systems will run an analog loco. The ones that don't, they like to claim that it will ruin your loco - this is true, if it's a coreless can motor, or you leave a non-decoder loco sitting still on DCC powered track for hours. I have 6 locos, they all hae decoders. My father in law has more like 80, NONE of which have decoders yet. We've been running them all from my Zephyr, no issues whatsoever. Ever paranoid, I've pulled the shell off some after running them for a half hour or so pulling long train, and nope, the motor is NOT hot.
Digitrax can run an analog loco, address 00. I believe Lenz can as well, and the Bachmann EZ DCC can run an analog loco. NCE doesn't (although there is a way to make a throttle on the serial interface port that can control an analog loco), not sure about CVP's Easy-DCC.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Thanks again , you guys are making train systems a little easier to understand.
ennout

[Anonymous]

Ok..so is the PA good to go with then? Also I was reading that they now have DCC turnouts! Is this something I will need or just use the regular ones?

[Anonymous]

CVP will run locos in analog mode on channel 0.

I don't want to start a war here because there are differing opinions on this issue but I think that it is slightly mis-leading to say that DCC will run analog locos. The systems are not really designed to do this. They run the loco in analog mode by stretching out the AC wave slighty in one direction or the other to get the loco to move. It is not DC, it is stretched AC. I think they threw the feature in there as a selling point. While it is true that you can run them, in my experience, I don't think that the performance of the loco in analog on a DCC system is up to par wiith the same loco on a good quality DC power pack. The locos buzz and make funny sounds and, as Randy points out, you have to careful with coreless motors and about parking the locos for too long on sidings. As some one entering the world of DCC, I would plan to put decoders in all of my locos when using DCC.

Most people running locos in analog mode on DCC systems are doing so because they are older brass locos where a decoder a install would be problematic and time consuming. Decoders can be purchased for as little as $15.00 each, so I think that one should factor the cost into consideration of a system. You might also buy DCC ready locos when possible. Decoder installs in these locos are, for the most part, fairly simple.

[SteelMonsters]

A good DCC booster has a high frequency pulse rate. A motor is pretty much an inductor, a good motor for DC mode on a DCC layout will have a good inductance when stopped. Inductors have high reactance agaist high frequency and DC easily. When the motor is stopped the reactance minimizes the current flow through the motor. When the motor is moving the reactance lowers the reverse current through the motor

The higher the reactance (either by a motor with higher inductance or a high frequency DCC signal provided) the cooler the motor will run. High current does two things, overheats the motors, but more likely it will damage the brushes and they will have a significantly shortened lifespan.

[Anonymous]

Well thanks for the help!!!

[mgsrailway]

Darren,

The only thing I would add is that while running in analog mode on some systems is possible I would not advise using it except in brief tests. The long term effect on your motors will be that their lifespan is decreased.

This option was included on early systems as a way to entice purchasers who were wary of not being able to run all their DC locos anymore. With the explosion of DCC products available within the last 2-4 years I don't feel the analog option should be included with systems anymore.

If someone wants to test a locomotive before converting to DCC a circle of track on an extra piece of plywood and that old transformer you have are perfect for breaking-in that new engine.

I have been using the NCE PowerHouse Pro system for 3+ years now and have been totally satisfied with it. While it is considered one of the higher end systems any upgrades to it are done with software revisions and not hardware ones. All it costs is a minimal amount to cover postage for a new EPROM.

Dave
Galloway, OH


BTW I notice your location says Chillicothe. Is that Ohio, Illinois, ????

[Anonymous]

Thats Ohio...How far are you from me?

[Anonymous]

I regularly run analogue locos with my Zephyr system and even consist .
One point though is that both front and back lights are on.
Bill

[rrinker]

QUOTE: Originally posted by billobe


I regularly run analogue locos with my Zephyr system and even consist .
One point though is that both front and back lights are on.
Bill

Depending on the decoder, you can configure that.

--Randy