Started building my 1st HO layout, 8' X 6', DCC, in Aug 2019. In Sept 2020 I had finished laying all the track and wiring, and started testing all my new engines. All were from Scale Trains (Rivit Counter), Walthers and Broadway Limited. I worked out most of the "kinks" and the engines ran just fine. Then I started the scenery.
Jump to today, Mar 2022. Some problems have started to come up. Some of the engines will "stutter" or slow dowm slightly in a few areas. Lights on some of the engines will flicker or just go off while running. Mostly all in random areas of the layout. In one area about 18" long between 2 turnouts all engines seem to "stutter", slow down and a few even just stop and lose power. All the turnouts and their frogs are properly wired, but seem they might be part of some of my problems. I have feeders about every 2 to 3 feet. A single main buss. I'm using an NCE Power Cab. Just testing 1 engine at a time.
I use a Brightboy a lot to clean areas on the track. That sometimes helps. I just started using a Tidy Track wheel cleaner. Not sure if it has made any difference.
So, is it a dirty track issue, a wiring issue (do I ned to resolder some feeders to the rails), dirty wheel issue (the engines don't have that many hours on them) or even an engine internal wiring issue? Do I need to use a better track cleaning method such as 90% isopropyl alcohal and maybe a CMX track cleaning car...??? What's the best way to check power and continuity at the tracks?
Any direction or trial & error path I should take? I want this to be solved before I start to build my mountain that will make access to come tracks a bit of a "task".
Thanks.
What track are you using and how are your feeders attached?
Rick
hbgatsf What track are you using and how are your feeders attached? Rick
If you have feeders every 2 to 3 feet that implies that every piece of flex track has a feeder. If that is not the case I would start by checking that the rail joiners are conducting electricity. (Assuming clean track.)
I have feeders on each turnout, and each section of track is either soldered at the joiners or has a feeder. Most have both.
Dirty wheels on the engines...?
OldEngineman Dirty wheels on the engines...?
I think that dirty wheels would exhibit issues in more than a few spots.
kenbenthe engines ran just fine. Then I started the scenery.
And that is exactly when problems tend to start. You might have jostled a poor or cold soldering joint and made it faulty. What happens if you temporarily augment your wiring with alligator clips that connect fairly long segments? If it is suddenly better that should be an "aha" moment, although the ultimate culprit can be the devil to track down. Re-soldering the joints runs the risk of melting some ties but the point it, good joints can go bad if stuff has been done nearby.
Your scenicking might have gunked the track more than a Bright Boy can cure. How does the track "feel" when you run a fingernail along it? Smooth" Bumpy? If bumpy, another aha moment.
Dave Nelson
Been there, done that. First off test the engine on a loose peice of flex, could get fancy and mount to a board to do programing on. Next the potental problems and I would guess it is either the suitcase connectors (don't know why anyone would use them except they are cheap to buy) or the gauge of the buss wire as 16 seems awfull small, the 22 for the feeders is what I use so I know that is OK.
rrebell the gauge of the buss wire as 16 seems awfull small, the 22 for the feeders is what I use so I know that is OK.
Wire sizes run in reverse. #16 is larger than #22.
kenben, I am finding that most of my problems with engines stuttering over track have to do with dirty engine wheels, and less so dirty tracks. I would give your engine wheels a thorough cleaning, in particular if you have not been running it for a while.
It sounds like either dirt or something happened to the track. Dirty wheels and tracks are an easy fix. There are many threads on the topic of cleaning track. Alcohol with a clean rag should work.
Faulty track can happen as a result of the work on the layout, or layout movement (is your layout free-standing or fastened against the wall?). After ruling out the dirty wheels and track option, I would use a voltmeter and check the voltage where the locos are having trouble. It should read about 16 volts AC on your meter.
Simon
rrebell Been there, done that. First off test the engine on a loose peice of flex, could get fancy and mount to a board to do programing on. Next the potental problems and I would guess it is either the suitcase connectors (don't know why anyone would use them except they are cheap to buy) or the gauge of the buss wire as 16 seems awfull small, the 22 for the feeders is what I use so I know that is OK.
Curious about your comment about the suitcase connectors.
Our club moved locations about a year ago and the two main guys doing the rewiring have used tons of them in rehooking stuff up without having any issues yet. I am also doing some rewiring on my own layout and find them to be a pretty decent way to go - except that trying to get 22AWG(solid) into the connectors can be a challenge at times. So, just wondering what your opinion of them is based on and if it seems to be a common one in the modeling community.
kenbenI worked out most of the "kinks" and the engines ran just fine. Then I started the scenery.
I wonder if the addition of scenery played a part in the deteriorating running qualities, as a lot of the scenicing tasks require the use of glues, especially for ballasting and ground cover. The only time I need to clean track is after ballasting or adding scenic material near the track. I use a mildly abrasive block, meant for cleaning contact points, like those in the distributors of older vehicles.
My layout is strictly DC, and pretty well all of the rails (except those at the ends of removeable bridges) are soldered at every rail joiner.I don't need a bus wire, as the entire layout is powered solely by these two...
No extra wiring was required for turnouts, either, as they're all soldered at their ends to the tracks
kenbenIn one area about 18" long between 2 turnouts all engines seem to "stutter", slow down and a few even just stop and lose power.
Is the bus wire connected to that 18" section of track, or are the rails soldered to the turnouts at their ends?
Being not at all conversant with DCC, I'm afraid that my input regarding the cause is beyond my skills.
Wayne
I have cleaned all the track with 91% alcohol and the wheels of 2 of my engines for testing. One engine ran much better. Only stalled once in 2 areas of concern. The other one still showed stalling and power loss in a few areas. I've got it nailed down to 4 turnouts in the yard and one curved turnout on the main, and that 18" straight track next to the yard.
On the curved turnout the engine will loose power once the last axels has moved onto the point rails. If a gently push the truck towards the point rail that is directing the direction the engine is following the engine gets power and moves. This kinda tells me the point rails aren't getting a good contact from the stock rails that lead to the frog. This turnout is NOT by Peco or Atlas.
The other 4 turnouts, all Peco code 83, seem to show simular loss of power either at the front of the point rails or into the frog. All switch motors are Tortoise.
How should I be testing the curcuit connections and power ratings to check who's at fault? Remember, all engines were running fine before I started scenery.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm still a rookie.
Clean the contacts at the turnout points. Solder the rail joiners or feeders to each piece of rail. Make yourself a test truck. It's just a freight car truck with metal wheels and pickups soldered to a 14 volt bulb. Everywhere the light goes out there is a loss of current. When the light stays on all around the layout, then do a quarter test near turnouts and other random places.
Pete.
maxman rrebell the gauge of the buss wire as 16 seems awfull small, the 22 for the feeders is what I use so I know that is OK. Wire sizes run in reverse. #16 is larger than #22.
The eyes did read exactly what you wrote. How the brain sees what the eyes read is sometimes subject to interpretation.
I would look really closely at the suitcase connectors. I tried a few of them. Maybe I got lame ones but it took more strength than I could muster between thumb and forefinger to get them to snap down all the way and connect the wires. I had to reef on them with pliers. Before I realized that they were not all the way clicked down, the turnout switches I'd wired with the suitcase connectors were not working. When I squoze 'em with pliers, the switches finally worked. For me, that's not a viable system. I don't use them anymore. Every other kind of connector I've tried worked better.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
What I've found to be the problem so far, after cleaning all the tracks and the wheels with 99.1% alcohol, are several cold solder joints at the rail joiners. Most of them are in the turnouts. I'm testing with a short 2-axel switcher because the wheel base is short and fall between the point rails and the frog.
That will do it every time. Glad you're getting to the bottom of the problems. Don't forget the quarter test.
Your layout timeline is almost identical to mine and I encountered the same frustration at the same point in construction. Kept wondering what the heck was going on. For me, it came down to dirty track. Even after cleaning and cleaning with isopropyl and bright boy same spotty issues. I recently posted the info below in another thread and it improved things greatly. Not stating this is the best way, just sharing what worked for me. Good luck.
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I have a small N scale layout and with the small size and DCC I struggled with constant dead spots and constant isopropyl cleaning. Never using IPA again on the rails. This RTNTs video was very informative, explained the black gunk source, and I followed what was laid out and it works great! Have not cleaned in a while. One spot was dead and rubbed it with a clean tee shirt square and reapplied very thin layer of the paste and back to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBYxjcTWCB0
OH CRAP. Looks like my power supply for my signals and switch motors has gone out. Trains run on the other buss OK. All switch motors and signals..... no power.
How long do these little power supply packs last? This one would be about 2 years old. The one I have is made by Mepos, input 100-240V-50/60Hz 0.4A, output 12V 1220mA 15W.
Suggested replacements?
THX
How many switch motors and lights are being powered? You may want to split it across several different buss power supplies. I've seen people use old computer power supplies for years to power the accessory busses. Running a wallwart near max capacity will kill it in no time.
wrench567How many switch motors and lights are being powered? You may want to split it across several different buss power supplies. I've seen people use old computer power supplies for years to power the accessory busses. Running a wallwart near max capacity will kill it in no time.
I have about 17 switch motors (Tortoise) and 6 signals. The signals are always on and only 1 or 2 switch motors at a time are activated at a time during an operation session.
I want to make sure I get/use the right PS so I don't burn out anything. Suggestions? Amazon?