Preparing to put up an around the room shelf. I know a lot of people (myself included) use 2" foam over 1/2" plywood for a layout base. I am wondering if anyone has used 2" foam without something underneath it?
Most of the walls have 16" centered studs to which I will attach a bracket. Each bracket will have a length of 1x3 for the foam to set on and be glued to.
I know the stuff is quite strong and have plenty of scrap for landscape changes. Just wondering if anyone has ha success or failure using just foam.
The layout will be at least 40" off the floor, so I won't be likely to be sitting on it.
Thank you,
Richard
My concern would be an accident. I know I’d probably slip and smash a section.
Richard,
I framed my 4 x 8', 2" extrude foam base with 1 x 3 and supported the foam underneath with four (4) 1 x 3 wood slats laid flat - 24" on center - and perpendicular to the long side. The foam was well supported so I had no issues at all with that configuration.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I put 1/8" luan plywood under my 2" foam I thought I might use tortoises, but I have not. Still it's useful for attaching buck voltage regulators and terminal strips.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Good morning
I know you'll be fine with 16 inch centers and 2 inch foam Richard. I'll have to agree with Tom and the way he did things on his layout is plenty support. The only thing I would suggest, which you're probably going to do already, is put a sub fascia board on your 1x tails before the finished contoured one to protect the edge.
I only used one inch foam and have bridges on four different elevations with no grade over 2%. Plenty of support for what's up there.
The more elevations the more rigid it gets, especially when I start gluing the contours of foam to the sides of the risers.
Foam is more rigid than people give it credit for. I've broken fine detail on a locomotive just taking it out of the case before. I tend to be more careful these days. Let's face it, everything on your layout is delicate so not much abuse is happening on the table top up there. It's not like I'm going to jump up there and put my hockey skates on or anything
I engineered the table top out of inverted quarter inch luan grid construction so it's ultra light.
The eight inch centers I chose we're not for support but to make things simple to string wire so they ain't sagging all over the place. I've never been too keen on sloppey wire jobs even if you can't see them. They may need to make sense when I access them one day.
Since my ridiculous idea of cantilever construction off the wall, I have re-built my benchwork on wheels, is what I should have done in the first place
Enjoy your shelf build Richard as your way good with your plans
TF
Just build a 1x4 box and set it on the suports and glue on the 2" foam. The 1x4's make sure there ane no sags and provide a place to attatch the facia to. Also a place to attach wires and panels and in my case throttle holders, drink holders, uncoupler pics etc.
BigDaddyI put 1/8" luan plywood under my 2" foam Still it's useful for attaching buck voltage regulators and terminal strips.
I think this is a good point that should not be overlooked with a new layout.
I recently finished building the framework for my layout - 1/2" plywood with 1" foam in some areas on top and 1 1/2" foam on other areas. A hard surface underneath is really helpful to attach the plethora of electrical items as well as switching mechanisms that will no doubt be needed for your layout.
Ablebakercharlie I think this is a good point that should not be overlooked with a new layout. A hard surface underneath is really helpful to attach the plethora of electrical items as well as switching mechanisms that will no doubt be needed for your layout.
A hard surface underneath is really helpful to attach the plethora of electrical items as well as switching mechanisms that will no doubt be needed for your layout.
I've used lots of 1" pink foam on 3/16" MDF.
I've never used 2" foam. In the instances I needed something thicker, I just added another 1" on top of it.
Also, in my experience, 1/8" is a bit too flimsy - at least for my applications.
www.bostontype.com
Track fiddlerI gotta tell ya, in all my years I have never seen 1/8" luan though, only 1/4". Have I been missing something here?
https://www.lowes.com/pd/RevolutionPly-5mm-Poplar-Plywood-Application-as-4-x-8/50121135
Mike
I am using 2" pink foam on 1"x3" grids. I have added a layer of 1/4" luan to the bottom of the foam. In my case I will be using Tortoises. The luan will make mounting them and all the other electrical stuff easy.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
When I built my layout some commented that i didn't need anything under the foam. and while it is true you can glue a tortoise to the underside of the foam, if you start carving away foam to create negative elevation, i.e, a river a gulch, a canyon, you need something under the foam.
Ken Patterson uses at least 2 layers of 2" foam, sometime 3. I have an area of 5" foam. It is not easy nor clean to create a grade. Patterson is OK with using an electric chain saw to sculpt his foam. I am not.
My 1/8" luan has terminal strips and buck voltage regulators screwed into it. It's adequate for that purpose.
I don't remember where I bought it, but I used 1/8" luan as underlayment to cover an old tile floor in our kitchen. This was back in 1999.
Actually, I think it was our local lumber yard.
Mike.
My You Tube
Richard.
Nothing in this hobby takes more punishment than a portable layout module. I built all five of mine with 2 inch foam with a 1x4 frame. Most of our train shows were in the winter. And sometimes the modules would stay under the cover of the truck bed for weeks. Never a problem. Track, roadbed and scenery was glued down with simple white glue. My longest module is 4 feet long by 3 feet wide with only one support in the center to keep the wires from sagging.
Pete.
I used 2" foam on open grid. I find working through wood okay or working through foam okay. Working through foam and a layer of wood is a pain. Fixing things to the underside of foam requires a little square of 1/4" ply glued to the right spot.
I would use spline again in a heartbeat for mainline runs. I would not put mainline runs on foam on the next layout, however for yards and/or spur lines track with or without cork on foam is fine.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Thanks for the info on the 1/8" luan Mike and Wisconsin Mike. (Good to see you back from the summer)
From what I determined, ...What everyone has been calling 1/8" luan here for years, I've been calling 1/4" for years. I do believe they are one and the same as I put a tape measure on mine for the first time and it is 3/16" as Mike pointed out.
I don't think anyone is wrong with the thickness they call it. It depends on which way you look at it. Rounded up or rounded down.
Kinda like some simple math that has somewhat baffled me a little bit. If you increase the thickness of something by 50% it is 50% more. If you take that added thickness back off it is 33% less. Things that make you go hmmm
Gluing a small piece of quarter inch plywood to the underside of the foam where you need to put something like a tortoise is what I was planning to do Brent. I don't see why that wouldn't work?
I would have to agree with you, I don't like foam laminated to plywood. Fishing something through foam with a plywood backer, it always seems to get stuck at the plywood as the wood splinters from the drill bit and foam particles restrict it from going through.
Your spline grades look great. The picture a little blurry on the zoom, I couldn't tell if they were constructed with masonite, MDF or Luan.
You stated you would not use foam for a main line on a layout. I'm thinking your reasoning for that is due to vulnerability. If not, why?
Track fiddler Gluing a small piece of quarter inch plywood to the underside of the foam where you need to put something like a tortoise is what I was planning to do Brent. I don't see why that wouldn't work? I would have to agree with you, I don't like foam laminated to plywood. Fishing something through foam with a plywood backer, it always seems to get stuck at the plywood as the wood splinters from the drill bit and foam particles restrict it from going through. Your spline grades look great. The picture a little blurry on the zoom, I couldn't tell if they were constructed with masonite, MDF or Luan. You stated you would not use foam for a main line on a layout. I'm thinking your reasoning for that is due to vulnerability. If not, why? TF
Hello All,
On my 4'X8' pike I switched from a base of 5/8-inch MDFB (Medium Density Fiber Board) under a 1-inch foam base to a 1"X4" frame with cross members on 32-inch centers and a stringer down the center.
The MDFB was extremely heavy and provided no rigidity on its own, as my pike sits on top of the bed in the computer-/spare bed-/train-room.
I used 1/4-inch plywood to support the foam base. The plywood was screwed into the 1"X4" frame.
To attach the foam to the plywood I used wood screws with finishing washers A.K.A cup washers.
These washers allow the head of the screw to bite into the foam without pulling through. I countersunk the washers flush with the foam.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
Thank you for all the ideas and suggestons, they have even brought up some thoughts on other parts of the layout project.
Billwiz. I did think of a fall on the layout. but I hope it will be high enough to reduce the effects of a fall
Sold my dear old friend, my little 4x6 layout today that has given me a lot of pleasure over the last umpteen years. I will miss it, so now there is nothing in the way to keep me from forging ahead with the new project.
Thanks again for the thoughts,