Hello fellow modelers
I have been without a layout for 7 or more years now. I have been setting up track here and there and running for a day or so... I taught myself how to airbrush, so I weathered a few things I had, built a few things just to paint and weather them... I have also been drawing/CADing/thinking what I want on my next layout if that day should ever come.
Well, we are building a heated 50'x50' 3 bay shop w/ a toilet and sink. Should be done by February. I talked with the CFO and got her ok for me to cordon off the last wee bit in the back corner just for a layout. I am thinking somewhere in the range of 12'x15' area. I still have a slew of PECO turn outs for the mainlines and Atlas for the yards. Here are some of the things I have been thinking about for the last 2 months...
1) We live in the high desert of Idaho, so the heating isn't my main concern... But our builder said with the right amount of insulation and ceiling fans hanging from the rafters, it shouldn't get too cold nor too hot. The main reason I moved my layout from the garage to the house years ago was due to 105 outside and 115 inside the garage. Then it was a moot point as it had to go due to space issues.
2) All of my turnouts (I donated all of my flex track) are code 100. Peco and Atlas. I always dreamed of the day I would have a "real" layout with code 83 or dare I say it... Hand Laid Track! (GASP! ok, that may be going a bit TOO far) I do plan on using my new found skill of airbrushing the track after ballasting so I don't know which would look better...
3.) I plan on a point to point RDC on a DC that goes one way, pauses then comes back. Then I plan on 3 main lines running DCC... 1, a passenger line on the outer mose area just doing laps. The other 2 will have turn outs for shunting and moving things hither and yon, but also be able to loop as well. My last layout had a lift out portion that worked surprisingly well after many hours of work. Question here is... will my Digitrax Zephyr (DCS50) have enough Hrumph to make those 3 work or should I look into a booster?
So that's about it. For now, anyway! For anyone interested, I will be modeling Northern Pacific from the Cascades to Spokane on 3 sides with a liftout and yard on the 4th side. I have in mind mountain scenery to scrubby Central Washington on to flat farmground then rolling hills of Spokane with the tracks above the streets. The RDC will run from the farm ground to the city to a spot under the mainline then return. All circa 1952. I will have to locate another 2-8-0 since I sold mine.
Cheers!
George
deckroid 1) We live in the high desert of Idaho, so the heating isn't my main concern... But our builder said with the right amount of insulation and ceiling fans hanging from the rafters, it shouldn't get too cold nor too hot. The main reason I moved my layout from the garage to the house years ago was due to 105 outside and 115 inside the garage. Then it was a moot point as it had to go due to space issues.
Being in Eastern Montana myself, I can understand the issues with layout tempurature. Anywhere from -40 to 105 in an unheated/uncooled space. (My requirement when Mom and I started house shopping after Dad passed was somewhere to put the layout, which for my house is the garage.) Prior to that the layout was in my apartment bedroom and the old one was in an unheated shop on the ranch where I grew up. The main thing I have to watch out on is to make sure that anything water-based isn't in there during times where it's below freezing.
deckroid 2) All of my turnouts (I donated all of my flex track) are code 100. Peco and Atlas. I always dreamed of the day I would have a "real" layout with code 83 or dare I say it... Hand Laid Track! (GASP! ok, that may be going a bit TOO far) I do plan on using my new found skill of airbrushing the track after ballasting so I don't know which would look better...
If you're comfortable with using the Peco and the Atlas Code 100 turnouts for your railroad, go ahead. As many people have said previously, it is your railroad and you call the shots so to speak. I have both Atlas and Peco code 100 track on my layout. (Mostly Atlas with two 3-way Peco turnouts.)
There also have been people who have weathered Code 100 rail to reduce the apparent height of the track. If you have any older (<80s) engines the higher rail is needed due to the flanges on the wheelsets. (I have som. (e AHM U-boats that are older than I am for modeling coal trains. On my budget, I couldn't afford the "good" U-boats.)
With the quality of the Atlas rail joiners, they can handle both Code 83 and 100 track. (I have some Code 83 ME bridge track that uses the Atlas Joiners to connect to the Code 100.)
12' x 15' is a pretty small area to have four lines - one point to point, and three mainline tracks - in HO at least. You could do it, but wouldn't have a lot of space for buildings or scenery I'd think.
If you're OK with duckunders and hatches, I guess you could do layout in the whole space, but I'd lean towards something like around the walls (max 2' wide shelfs) with a wider space at each end for the track to loop back on itself to make a waterwings or dogbone shape.
Given the stage you are in, my advice would be to obtain and carefully read (or re-read if you have back issues already) as many issues of the annual Model Railroad Planning as you can find. You'll see what others have done, what works and learn what they regret, and maybe even some usable portions of track plans to boot. For what you seek to do there are more concentrated doses of information in MRP. I do particularly recall an interesting layout involving Northern Pacific RDCs and grain elevators, in fairly right quarters.
Dave Nelson
Yea, you are trying to put too much in too small a space. Saw a layout once where they put a layout in a space in a large shed. You should consider building a shed within a shed which could be insulated. Duckunders don't last because it gets hard at times to use even from everyday things like back pain from sleeping in wrong position etc.
deckroid2) All of my turnouts (I donated all of my flex track) are code 100. Peco and Atlas. I always dreamed of the day I would have a "real" layout with code 83 or dare I say it... Hand Laid Track! (GASP! ok, that may be going a bit TOO far) I do plan on using my new found skill of airbrushing the track after ballasting so I don't know which would look better...
I have seen many layouts built with code 100 track. With painting and ballast applied, it looks just fine. That extra 0.017" only really is apparent in photographs where the track is a prominent feature. In real life, I barely notice it.
I don't know much about your other two questions.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I used code 100 track on my layout. I have a few older engines that would find the road a bit bumpy if it was code 83... As for the look, well, there is always worse, like O scale 3 rail.
There is room for a nice loop in that area, in addition to a long yard section. As the OP states, a liftout can be quite durable and is not that hard to build.
The heat is what I would worry most about. We also live in a continental weather area - with less heat. Our house has a layer of 6 inch insulation. Still, the temperature easily reached 80 inside on the warmer days, before we installed an air conditioner. That's enough to expand any track. I don't think that fans will make much of a difference, but I'm no mechanical engineer. I would leave gaps between the rails if it was laid in the colder months, just in case. Small gaps on straight track do not cause derailments.
Simon
We have a lot to digest from the OP's message. Curious about the following:
What about benchwork?
Table height(s)?
Lighting?
Area fully finished?
What else?
kasskaboose We have a lot to digest from the OP's message. Curious about the following: What about benchwork? 2 sides (one 12 the other 15) will be back against the far corner. The other two will be the sturdy modular style (3.5 to 4 foot sections) but attached to each other and the two sides. Kinda of a hodge podge, I admit. I like girders. The depth of the bench is what I am unsure of as of right now. I have done 24, and 30 inches. I like being able to reach everything for scenicing and possible derailments. One side will not have a backdrop so you can stand outside and watch the trains. Table height(s)? Height will be between 40 and 46. I have some bar stools that are super comfy for watching trains go round and round. My last layout was a duck under that was at 52 inches, both to accomodate better standing views (I am 6'5") and for ease of ducking under. I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. And my wife, who is 5'4" really didn't like the height. With the girder build, I can have different heights for my NP Mainstreeter and RDC. Lighting? This is new construction so the builder told me he will put LEDs where ever I want them. The rafters will be 16 ft up but I will drop the LEDs. Area fully finished? This is the tricky question. I am "allowed" by the Boss Lady 15 feet in the last corner. The shop is 50x50 with 3 12x14 doors. I might be able to fude a Fiddle Yard along the side but not too much as we do have plans for all 3 bays. Anyway, I figure an area about 12x15. I will add a photo of what I am planning after a while. What else? My 2nd layout was when I was in college. I had a great time playing with a 4x8 sheet of plywood with a divider. It took up most of the space in main room of my apartment, but I didn't have a TV and this was before the Internet. One side had mountains, a lake and a tunnel for one line. (I have always enjoyed seeing 2 trains just running round and round... especially in different directions). The other side had a full city backdrop with buildings everywhere. On one of ends, I had a farm with rows of corn blending the two scenes together. The other end was a tunnel that lead to the mountains. At the top of said mountain, I had a blinking red radio tower that I scratch built out of left over sprews (model parts) from all the buildings. I used the layout as part of a History Class paper we had to give orally. I say all this because I realize that I want mountains, farm then the beginnings of a city (at least some) on my layout and it will be a tight fit, but 12x15 with 30 inches of benchwork is 110 sq ft. A 4x8 sheet is 32 sq ft. and it worked quite nicely before...
2 sides (one 12 the other 15) will be back against the far corner. The other two will be the sturdy modular style (3.5 to 4 foot sections) but attached to each other and the two sides. Kinda of a hodge podge, I admit. I like girders. The depth of the bench is what I am unsure of as of right now. I have done 24, and 30 inches. I like being able to reach everything for scenicing and possible derailments. One side will not have a backdrop so you can stand outside and watch the trains.
Height will be between 40 and 46. I have some bar stools that are super comfy for watching trains go round and round. My last layout was a duck under that was at 52 inches, both to accomodate better standing views (I am 6'5") and for ease of ducking under. I didn't like it as much as I thought I would. And my wife, who is 5'4" really didn't like the height. With the girder build, I can have different heights for my NP Mainstreeter and RDC.
This is new construction so the builder told me he will put LEDs where ever I want them. The rafters will be 16 ft up but I will drop the LEDs.
This is the tricky question. I am "allowed" by the Boss Lady 15 feet in the last corner. The shop is 50x50 with 3 12x14 doors. I might be able to fude a Fiddle Yard along the side but not too much as we do have plans for all 3 bays. Anyway, I figure an area about 12x15. I will add a photo of what I am planning after a while.
George,
I'll take a shot at #3.
I have a Zephyr like yours I got somewhere around 2000 AD. Unless you're running old Varney engines that draw a couple amps each. You should be fine.
The president of a club I belonged to had a Zephyr on a layout that was about 25'x25' and we ran somewhere between 7 and 10 engines. It convinced me to by the Zephyr.
I'm running it on my (under construction 8'x13') layout that is meant for 3 operators.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
If you're going to use DCC, there is no need to isolate the various tracks from one another. If you design your track plan so that trains can go anywhere on the layout, you will be so much happier with the layout operations. You could still a point-to-point RDC as well as a main line that mainly functions as a passenger line, but you could also place industries along any of these tracks so that freight trains would have more "options" traveling to such industries. The real beauty of DCC is that it allows trains to run on any section of track at any speed and any direction independent of each other without the need for track blocks or power switching. Yes, this also means trains can run into each other but that is more realistic, too!
Hornblower
hornblower If you're going to use DCC, there is no need to isolate the various tracks from one another.
If you're going to use DCC, there is no need to isolate the various tracks from one another.
The reason the RDC is going to be separate is because on my old layout, I had it go from point to point depots with a stop in the middle. It would start at point A, run to point B, stop and wait then continue to C where it would stop and wait then return. I have an older DC setup for it. I like to watch trains run more than shunting to and fro. The Budd car went under and around the main line I had.
I did find, with help from another post, some DCC options, but I have this and it's pretty simple to install.
SpaceMouse George, I'll take a shot at #3. I'm running it on my (under construction 8'x13') layout that is meant for 3 operators.