Back in 2019, as part of my new layout, I constructed a 12 foot long, 30 inch wide river. For retaining walls, I used Chooch Flexible Cut Stone Walls.
I have used this material before on my old layout with good results. The wall sections came with a special adhesive backing back then, and it held pretty well except that a few corners separated, so I used track nails to secure those loose corners.
On my new layout, I had to order all new panels, each 12" long. I noticed that Chooch no longer applied the special adhesive to the wall sections. Rather, the backing was clean and dry and separate double faced adhesive sheets were included in each wall section package. I did not particularly like or trust this separate double faced adhesive sheet, so I used hot glue instead to install the wall sections. That worked perfectly.
Fast forward to this weekend. I was shocked to come down to the layout and find the wall section at each end of the 12' run had completely separated from the wood base that it had previously adhered to. And, of course, these failed wall sections were in the most inaccessible points of the layout, nearly hidden behind bridges.
I could not believe that the hot glue failed. Turns out, the hot glue did not fail. What I forgot about was that these two failed wall sections were so inaccessible that I could not use a hot glue gun, so on those two wall sections I used the separate double faced adhesive sheets. Those double faced adhesive sheets failed. You can see the double faced adhesive sheets still sticking to the wood base in the photos below.
So, here is my plan. I am going to pick up some thin basswood sheet and a can of contact cement and glue the wall sections to the basswood sheet and then use wood glue to reattach these two wall sections to the wood base from which they had separated.
It took no real effort, by the way, to remove the double faced adhesive sheets from the wood base. They peeled off effortlessly.
I will report back when all is said and done.
Rich
Alton Junction
Wishing the best for your wall repair. I too suffered Chooch self-stick wall failures, but the bottom of the walls are embedded in the Envirotex 'water'. My fix was a piece of styrene angle & some track spikes, a tad obtrusive, but better than tearing it all out.
Good luck and regards, Peter
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
HO-Velo Wishing the best for your wall repair. I too suffered Chooch self-stick wall failures, but the bottom of the walls are embedded in the Envirotex 'water'. My fix was a piece of styrene angle & some track spikes, a tad obtrusive, but better than tearing it all out. Good luck and regards, Peter
yobbo by Bear, on Flickr
Hello All,
richhotrain...and a can of contact cement...
I agree on the choice of adhesive!
To adhere my Chooch Flexible Stone Wall material to the "foundation" of my kitbashed Power Plant made of wood I used contact cement.
By coating both surfaces with the contact cement the viscosity of the cement can fill the uneven surface of the back of the Chooch walls allowing for better adhesion.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
jjdamnit Hello All, richhotrain ...and a can of contact cement... I agree on the choice of adhesive! To adhere my Chooch Flexible Stone Wall material to the "foundation" of my kitbashed Power Plant made of wood I used contact cement. By coating both surfaces with the contact cement the viscosity of the cement can fill the uneven surface of the back of the Chooch walls allowing for better adhesion.
richhotrain ...and a can of contact cement...
However, this time around, the wall sections that I bought in 2019 came with that separate sheet of double faced adhesive that I previously mentioned. So, the two failed wall sections are perfectly clean and dry since they . So, my hope is that contact cement will work.came off the double faced adhesive sheet which remained on the wood base.
Yesterday, I picked up a can of DAP Contact Cement and a 1/16" thick sheet of basswood. So, today is the day. My plan is to apply the contact cement to one side of the basswood and to the back side of the flexible wall section. I will likely do two coats. Once the flexible wall section is adhered to the basswood, I will apply wood glue to the back of the basswood and glue it back onto the wood base. I have already peeled off the double faced adhesive sheet which remained on the wood base. So, that wood base is also clean and dry.
I will let you all know the results.
richhotrain Yesterday, I picked up a can of DAP Contact Cement and a 1/16" thick sheet of basswood. So, today is the day. My plan is to apply the contact cement to one side of the basswood and to the back side of the flexible wall section. I will likely do two coats. Once the flexible wall section is adhered to the basswood, I will apply wood glue to the back of the basswood and glue it back onto the wood base.
Yesterday, I picked up a can of DAP Contact Cement and a 1/16" thick sheet of basswood. So, today is the day. My plan is to apply the contact cement to one side of the basswood and to the back side of the flexible wall section. I will likely do two coats. Once the flexible wall section is adhered to the basswood, I will apply wood glue to the back of the basswood and glue it back onto the wood base.
Tomorrow will be the hard part, getting into position to apply the wall sections up against the framework, using wood glue. It is the hard part because of the inaccessibility of the area. There couldn't be two more remote sections of the layout.
Stay tuned.
richhotrain...they told me that contact cement would not work if applied over the adhesive that was factory applied to the back of the flexible wall sections.
Sorry I didn't mention that the Chooch sections I used did not have the adhesive backing factory applied.
It did come as a separate sheet which I didn't use.
Thanks for the updates and...
richhotrain richhotrain Yesterday, I picked up a can of DAP Contact Cement and a 1/16" thick sheet of basswood. So, today is the day. My plan is to apply the contact cement to one side of the basswood and to the back side of the flexible wall section. I will likely do two coats. Once the flexible wall section is adhered to the basswood, I will apply wood glue to the back of the basswood and glue it back onto the wood base. Turns out, today was the day. I only applied 1 coat of contact cement to the back of the flexible wall sections and to one side of the basswood. The bond seems to be holding solidly, so the contact cement worked. Tomorrow will be the hard part, getting into position to apply the wall sections up against the framework, using wood glue. It is the hard part because of the inaccessibility of the area. There couldn't be two more remote sections of the layout. Stay tuned. Rich
Turns out, today was the day. I only applied 1 coat of contact cement to the back of the flexible wall sections and to one side of the basswood. The bond seems to be holding solidly, so the contact cement worked.
The wood glue idea didn't work. I tested it off the layout and the basswood-backed flexible wall section kept falling away from the framework. Typically, when I use wood glue as part of a project, I clamp the wood joints until the wood glue dries.
So, what I decided to do was to use contact cement instead of wood glue. That worked but only after a series of contortions to reach what has to be the most remote sections of the layout.
Time will tell if this will hold, but I have no reason to think that it will fail. Of course, that is what I said the first time.
Here are some photos of the finished repair project.
richhotrainSo, what I decided to do was to use contact cement instead of wood glue.
Please post in a few months and let us know if it worked. I have a few Chooch Self-Adhesive flexible walls stashed, and if the contact cement is a solution, I will use them.
Thanks.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 richhotrain So, what I decided to do was to use contact cement instead of wood glue. Please post in a few months and let us know if it worked. I have a few Chooch Self-Adhesive flexible walls stashed, and if the contact cement is a solution, I will use them.
richhotrain So, what I decided to do was to use contact cement instead of wood glue.
Recall though that the older Chooch Flexible Stone Walls have an adhesive already applied to the back of the wall sections. On those older wall sections, there is no need for any other adhesive since the factory applied adhesive works quite well. Chooch has always maintained that contact cement should not be used on these wall sections because it is incompatible with the factory applied adhesive.
On the newer wall sections, there is no factory applied adhesive on the back of the wall sections. A separate double faced adhesive sheet is packaged with each wall section. It is that double faced adhesive sheet that failed. The newer wall sections without any factory applied adhesive are the ones that I applied contact cement to.
richhotrain...So, what I decided to do was to use contact cement instead of wood glue. That worked but only after a series of contortions to reach what has to be the most remote sections of the layout. Time will tell if this will hold, but I have no reason to think that it will fail. Of course, that is what I said the first time....
Well Ricardo, if you used the contact cement properly, that wood'll stick real good.
I built our kitchen cupboards 33 years ago, and veneered them with 1/8" oak plywood, using contact cement. To this day, not even one corner of the veneer has loosened at all, despite 33 years-worth of heat and steam from cooking.
Wally
doctorwayne richhotrain ...So, what I decided to do was to use contact cement instead of wood glue. That worked but only after a series of contortions to reach what has to be the most remote sections of the layout. Time will tell if this will hold, but I have no reason to think that it will fail. Of course, that is what I said the first time.... Well Ricardo, if you used the contact cement properly, that wood'll stick real good.
richhotrain ...So, what I decided to do was to use contact cement instead of wood glue. That worked but only after a series of contortions to reach what has to be the most remote sections of the layout. Time will tell if this will hold, but I have no reason to think that it will fail. Of course, that is what I said the first time....
I have had problems getting the backing off the adhesive and had problems getting the wall sections to stick properly. Every place I have tried them so far they have peeled off to some extent.
I am considering cutting 1/8 masonite in strips about 1" wide and the height of the wall. Then contact cementing them to the back of the wall material and clamping it until it sets. The wall would still be flexible but vertically rigid.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com